Flat earthers in the groove. Report on vinyl sales growing

Vinyl is one thing, but I worder if these will make a comeback.

I knew I'd be fashionable again if I waited long enough!

(Still don't own a cd!)

Mark

I've read the article, fantastic news. I hope this isn't just a trendy flash in the pan, and that the bulk of music is once more released on vinyl, not just the classic back catalogue stuff. I also hope there isn't the 50-100% premium over CD we have become used to.
I'm getting excited already at the thought of coming home with a heavy bag full of 12" vinyl, instead of small plastic boxes. Big up to Roger Daltry!

I'm pretty sure the Roger Daltrey interview referred to was one to be found lurking in the extras of one of the series of four Old Grey Whistle Test DVDs. He has a right go – it's great, recommended.

Talking of the Beeb, this same story was covered on the World Service at the weekend where someone suggested the vinyl is being bought but not actually played.

C

Chillkram,

There is nothing wrong with being unfashionable
vinyl replay has always been the best and I have been branded a "luddite" for not owning a cd player. I too don't want a cd player.
Music is Analogue and always will be because that is how it is performed

quote:

Originally posted by analogue kid:
Chillkram,

and I have been branded a "luddite" for not owning a CD player. I too don't want a cd player.
Music is Analogue and always will be because that is how it is performed

and I can see the attractions of your philosophy.

The fact remains that for the majority of music listeners at the time CD blew vinyl out of the water because a JVC (in my case) CD player sounded much better than a JVC turntable. We were not all duped. It is only at a certain level that vinyl replay surpasses CD replay and the majority of us didn't possess that level.

The last record I bought before the advent of Cd's was The Pixies - Bossanova, the first CD REM Out of Time. Out of time still sounds fine but Bossanova sounds like someone has hidden a box of rice krispies behind the speakers.

I'm happy with the sound I get from Cd's. I LIKE digital and I LOVE music. (but then again I have never heard good vinyl reproduction but steer clear of it the same way as I steer clear of listening to a 5 series system)

As John Lennon sang -
"whatever gets you through the night,
it's alright, it's alright"



SJB

It is easy to romanticize the past----what I remember are not only the clicks, pops, and scratches, but the lousy quality of most vinyl and the lousy quality of most of the recordings themselves (which is why I bought a lot of expensive Japanese pressings). Today I expect a lot of the vinyl are high quality/specialist and expensive pressings--a far cry from the typical crap I remember in many vinyl recordings of all types of music. Early digital CDS were bad, and many recordings are still poorly done, but the advances in digital recording, if done properly, now make listening a very satisfying experience. My main beef is that the cost of CDs has never come down despite the vast economies of scale now available for this medium. There may or may not be a conspiracy on gas prices, but there surely is one for CDs.....

I have nothing against the cd medium, although I still think that vinyl playback at a given price point is better (my opinion).

In the early days of cd I will admit to a great deal of resentment towards the medium owing to the preposterous claims made for it. I seem to remember 'Tomorrow's World' claiming that you could make a hole in a cd and the CDP would somehow 'make up for the gap in the music' and play on as though the hole were not there. CDs also pushed my beloved LPs out of the record shops.

I also felt very early cds were compressed and lifeless in comparison to vinyl. I agree with you, John, that most people compared a JVC cd player with a JVC turtable and favoured the cd player. But a Dual CS505 for the same price comfortably outperformed the cd player back then, I thought.

I have since heard many modern cds played on modern cd players and I think they can sound very good (Naim ones in particular). But my music collection is entirely vinyl and I have no intention of replacing it with what I consider an inferior medium. I listen mainly to older music (pre 90's mostly) and have no trouble sourcing this secondhand. Whenever I have wanted to purchase a modern release I have, so far, had no problem obtaining a vinyl pressing either.

It is great news that vinyl sales are on the up.

That said I will purchase a cd player at some point to keep the missus 'onside' and to make her more receptive to my pleas for funds to upgrade!

Mark

I, as a lot of people here prefer the sound of vinyl, not saying that cd replay is crap and it has its place but I find the quality of recordings in cd format to be of a lower standard on the whole, especially when comparing to its equivalent in Vinyl.

I also feel with vinyl you get better value for money, most of the new vinyl I buy is the same price as cd and you get in some cases, lovely gate fold covers with liner notes, coloured inner sleeves etc.

I think now with the mass availability of new vinyl (I can now get most acts I like) & supply of good secondhand shops, cd purchases are going to be very limited.

John

"I think now with the mass availability of new vinyl (I can now get most acts I like) & supply of good secondhand shops, cd purchases are going to be very limited.

John"

I definitely agree with that.

Matt

The poor quality of vinyl recordings during the early days of CD's was because the LP was only designed to play 20 minutes(max)/side. The cd is capable of 60 to 70 minutes therefore the recordings on LP were compressed giving low volume and bad quality. So when the cd is compared to the LP it will appear to sound better.
The music i listen to is mainly 60/70 rock and try wherever possible to buy/play first on second edition releases because they sound better than later or remastered copies, my opinion.

The most famous of all cd's is obviously 'Brothers in Arms' by Dire Straits, which due to its alleged superior digital recording and cd format was pushed onto the unsuspecting public. The general public being gullable and only having a JVC TT were suckered into the cd format. My brother in law was one of those people and we argued for many years over the virtues of cd.
Anyway, I ramble, the other week after a couple of hours of listening to good quality 70's rock music on my LP12 we decided to wind up the evening by playing some Brothers in Arms, which i had borrowed from a friend. We played Money for nothing, the start sounded very impressive initially then when the main song started it dissapeared and became thin and lifeless. My brother in law said "turn it off".
It has taken over 20 years for him to now realise the virtues of that lowly piece of scratched plastic does sound better than the highly praised cd.

If i could paste the link i would, but go to the web site www.vinylrecords.co.uk, scroll to the bottom of the home page and read the articles. Interesting reading
Music is Analogue

As I said above to each his own.

I find in the fora (not nesessarily in this thread) a level of elitism and snobbery from vinylists.

It also is a matter of perspectives. If one has only listened to reproduced music on cd, then that is what you expect music reproduction to sound like and perhaps you could prefer that to vinyl.

Secondly system optimisation could have an impact on whether vinyl or cd sounds better on a particular system. I presume one judges all upgrades mainly by primary source, so it would not be surprising if vinyl is your preferred source that it will indeed sound better than cds on your system.

I'm in no way suggesting that cds sound better than vinyl, but they do on my system, which is optimised towards cd replay as I have a 4:1 ratio of music on cd to vinyl.

I do like to hear that vinyl is available and making a comeback though because it gives a huge 2 fingers to all the hype and bluster of the marketeers, just don't always presume that those of us who like cd replay have necessarily been taken in by all of this.



SJB

I did my own test

I played Albert Hammond Bootleg on Back in the DHSS by Half Man Half Biscuit, it was on a CD, and then I played a Phil Collins track Something or other in the air (that somebody had given me or more likely Mrs Rotf, I didn't buy it - honest guv) on vinyl.

Conclusive result: CD is 100,000,000 times better than vinyl. (I checked this figure very carefully)

I'm sure nobody could argue that this is a fair objective test and should prove once and for all the old saying - garbage in, garbage out.

Rotf (a very happy CDX2 user who likes vinyl too , as long as it's got good music on it)

It is not just my system that vinyl sounds better on.
My brother last year bought Naim CD5i/112x/150x to replace an old Arcam system. He already had a Linn Axis turntable circa 1994, when we did the auditioned HE thought vinyl replay was better than cd. Therefore, with even an entry level naim system and old entry level Linn TT vinyl still has the upper hand.
It is not a case of being elitist or snobbish over vinyl replay, it is a case of putting a reasoned argument to all the people who branded me a "luddite" for not being swept along with the cd wave 20 years ago.

Since the likes of Naim and linn have got hold of the CD bandwagon, I must admit the replay quality has improved a great deal. I have only heard the CD5i for prolonged listening and a bare CDX2 when demoing speakers at the dealers.
If i was in a position to have the money to spend on a cd player I think I would rather invest in a NAP300 to replace my NAP250.

If however, the house burned down and I lost all my record collection, most of which as I have already mentioned are first or second edition copies, I could never replace them easily. So, would cd have to become my primary (only) source? If i wanted to listen to music, yes.
Music is still Analogue

quote:

The poor quality of vinyl recordings during the early days of CD's was because the LP was only designed to play 20 minutes(max)/side.

Shortly before Vinyl was killed off, Direct Metal Mastering was introduced, which allowed up to 43 minutes per side.

Long live the long playing record!

I have spent a fortune over the years on CDs, a small fortune on my CD player (CDX2), yet my second hand Rega P25 (recognised by vinyl enthusiasts as a distinctly average record player) sounds way, way better. I have a handful of vinyl and wish I'd never bought a CD in my life. I don't think the superiority of vinyl is a subjective matter. Its as plain as day.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
I did my own test

I played Albert Hammond Bootleg on Back in the DHSS by Half Man Half Biscuit, it was on a CD, and then I played a Phil Collins track Something or other in the air (that somebody had given me or more likely Mrs Rotf, I didn't buy it - honest guv) on vinyl.

Conclusive result: CD is 100,000,000 times better than vinyl. (I checked this figure very carefully)

I'm sure nobody could argue that this is a fair objective test and should prove once and for all the old saying - garbage in, garbage out.

Rotf (a very happy CDX2 user who likes vinyl too , as long as it's got good music on it)

A well reasoned case, ROTF. I trust that this experiment was carried out under controlled, scientific conditions and that all other variables were eliminated.

Now how about introducing James Blunt on SACD into the equation to see how that medium fares?

Mark

quote:

It is not a case of being elitist or snobbish over vinyl replay, it is a case of putting a reasoned argument to all the people who branded me a "luddite" for not being swept along with the cd wave 20 years ago.

I too felt like a lone campaigner amongst my friends for many years.

Then when I 'rediscovered' my hobby, after several years spent focused on raising my young children in a small house, I was amazed to discover a general acceptance in audiophile magazines that vinyl was the superior medium.

Long may vinyl continue as the high resolution format.

Mark

chillkram

I think audiophile magazines always accepted vinyl as being the "superior" medium. I also believe most audiophiles accept that aswell. However, with the redued availability of new vinyl for many years and the 'convenience' of cd many people new to top flight audio systems missed out on the vinyl experience.
It is good to here of the resurgance in vinyl and from what i understand from my nephew at university, the 'in' thing is to own a turntable.

I suppose there could be people like us who defended vinyl against cd for many years, are now having to defend cd against vinyl or what ever replaces cd in the future.

Whatever happens vinyl sales are rising and music is still analogue

Analogue

It's funny, I felt when I left audiophile magazines behind that they were generally supporting cd over vinyl. That's why I stopped buying them for a few years. I was just surprised that they appeared to have made an about turn when I started to read them again.

It is good news that vinyl is on the up again as this will always be my favourite medium, even if it is surpassed by some future technology.

It's also good news that cd replay is getting better and that companies like NAIM are pushing back those boundaries as well.

The real shame is the widespread acceptance amongst the general public of increasingly poor standards of musical reproduction from downloads etc.

Let's hope the vinyl revival can help turn this around.

Mark

Dowloads
Do'nt even go there

I've been sitting at home listening to my humble Rega P3 and wondering why I prefer it's sound to my Naim CD5i which on a 1 to 1 basis cost a lot more. There is a magic there and music definitely has a different presentation. The CD5i can really impress but that is on a less frequent occasion.

I also started to do the sums on my next upgrade path and realised is was going to be considerably cheaper to go up the Rega P7 ($3400 AUD) upgrade path than say a CD5x ($4300 AUD) or CDX2 ($8500 AUD).

Anyone else thinking the same thing or am I kidding myself? Is CD replay better and I'm just stuck in the past?

Sound Dust

I'm making that decision based on what music I have and am most likely to play. I don't think I'm going to upgrade the P9 (apart from buy it a nice new cartridge and phono stage) after that my vinyl front-end will stay as it is. If I were you I'd buy the P7 as my last vinyl upgrade - it is a very good deck and should last forever; if you think the P7 is a stepping stone then I'd stay with the P3 for now and wait for that ultimate deck.

Any future upgrades for me will be for CD - it is just easier to buy CDs and it is the music that counts. Having recently been able to buy music by Altan and Solas, I found the CDs easy to find, but the vinyl would have been a challenge - I think I want an easy life.

I've no interest in downloaded music - that may change one day, but at the moment it just doesn't work for me.

Rotf

quote:

P7 ($3400 AUD) upgrade path than say a CD5x ($4300 AUD) or CDX2 ($8500 AUD).

Anyone else thinking the same thing or am I kidding myself? Is CD replay better and I'm just stuck in the past?

sounddust, you know, we know, i know: nothing beats vinyl mate!

go for the P7 - sounds good to me!

+blackforest (satisfied p25 owner).

Blackforest,

Reassurance is bliss