Would you electronically tag your child?

Generally the run of the mill inmates of prisons are none too sympathetic towards Pederasts. Perhaps just letting them into normal jails for life without special measures [like solitary] would be most suitable. I doubt if they would enjoy it being done to them for the rest of their lives...

Perhaps more resonably they should be chemically castrated, and then incarcerated for life...

Sincerely, Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Polarbear:
I don't think tagging is the answer.

Not leaving your children alone in a Hotel room whilst you have your dinner may be a better soloution...

Damn right. If James Bulger had been on reigns, he'd never have been lost and murdered either.

Personal responsibility - you want kids, you have them, but at least have the common decency to look after them properly. If that means foregoing a meal because you can't get a childminder or babysitter (be that at home or on holiday), tough.

That said, I hope this kid turns up alive, but I'm not expecting it to go this way

Apparently the Mark Warner complex is gated and difficult to get into (so we heard on the radio) and it's 'the done thing' to eat in the complex whilst being able to see your room.

How many of us when the weather is nice sit in the garden after the children have gone to bed and keep a close ear out?

Does no one sit downstairs when the 'little un's' are in bed with their TV/music on a little too loud and might miss the burglar breaking in through the bathroom window?

Does no one have a drink after the children are in bed to relax, making them potentially less fit to look after them should they wake?

quote:

Damn right. If James Bulger had been on reigns, he'd never have been lost and murdered either.

I absolutely agree and the children that murdered him, had they been brought up 'properly' wouldn't have done it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

Yes I was thinking more of an implant than a bracelet.

Obviously a criminal that predates upon children wouldn't dream of hurting a child by cutting out an implant...

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

I think death would be too easy a way out for them. They should have their genitalia removed with a rusty penknife.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske

Perhaps more resonably they should be chemically castrated, and then incarcerated for life...

This is equivalence? The punishment should fit the crime.

The suggestions above are mere brutalities and beneath the consideration of a civilised criminal justice system.

Naming and shaming child sex offenders does not work and we don't do this in New Zealand because we learned from the example established in the UK when you guys tried it.

The huge majority of sexual offences against children are committed by close family members. Most abductions of children are committed by parents or very close family members who are involved in custody or access disputes.

The knee-jerk reactions on this thread are a sterling illustration of why the criminal justice system has removed decision making from interested parties.

quote:

Originally posted by PJT:

No you're too considerate to these bastards. These pricks just don't deserve to live...
(now lets hear the civil libertarians bite )

PJT

At least you've admitted up front that you're trolling.

Oh, and

Deane

quote:

This is equivalence? The punishment should fit the crime.

The suggestions above are mere brutalities and beneath the consideration of a civilised criminal justice system.

Naming and shaming child sex offenders does not work and we don't do this in New Zealand because we learned from the example established in the UK when you guys tried it.

The huge majority of sexual offences against children are committed by close family members. Most abductions of children are committed by parents or very close family members who are involved in custody or access disputes.

The knee-jerk reactions on this thread are a sterling illustration of why the criminal justice system has removed decision making from interested parties.

Absolutely, if a sex offender is named it drives them further underground making them more unpredictable and leaving children (most likely the one's who are more vulnerable and less supervised) at greater risk.

To be honest incarcerating child sex offenders without certain protective measures would indeed be too much.

I am perfectly serious about chemically achieved castration. If the possibility of further abuse of children is completely removed, then it seems to me that removal of the possibility of complete auto-erotic activity is by no means a step too far. This seems an utterly suitable punishment that would make no particular difference to the physical health of the convict, but would be a daily reminder of their terrible crime for the remainder of their days.

I also believe that they should never be released...

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
I think death would be too easy a way out for them. They should have their genitalia removed with a rusty penknife.

I used to think that the best punishment would be to first trap their genitalia (all of it)in an electric socket then turn up the juice until it is unbearable and then give them the rusty penknife! Then give them some female hormone treatment, a wig and some lipstick and supply them to jails for the recreation of the inmates.

However, this is not very Buddhist and what goes around comes around so now I think this punishment is unduly cruel and I would no longer condone giving them the lipstick and wig.

All joking aside the tragic truth of so many abusers is that they were abused themselves.

But not only is breaking out of the cycle possible but essential. If every person who commits a terrible crime were to simply receive clemency on the basis that they were merely passing on what they had previously received then no progress can be made...

For those who cannot see this most compelling solution for themselves, then the crime should carry a sufficiently terrifying punishement to act as a deterent. The fact that not all will ever be found out is not justification for inaction in my view.

I have never seen punishment as being much use unless there is some element of terror in it. The degree of terror should be related to the severity of the crime. Few crimes rank with the evil of child abuse in my view.

Sincerely, Fredrik

Chaps

Anyone who abuses a child will probably re offend.

I just think it is immoral to take a chance and let them out under the guise of rehabilitation. We are gambling with childrens safety.

The only way is to lock them up until they are past it, say 70 years of age. The cost of imprisonment (I believe) is £800pw per prisoner. For long termers we could outsource imprisonment to places like China where they would probably do it relatively cheaply.

I think child abuse is the one crime where rehabilitation must be right off the agenda.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:

then the crime should carry a sufficiently terrifying punishement to act as a deterent.

When the possible punishment is terrifying enough, then the offender is supplied with compelling enough reasons to kill and dispose of the victims.

It bears repeating that most sexual offences committed against children are by close family members such as grandparents, aunts and uncles, mothers and fathers, step-parents and brothers or sisters. To prevent sexual offences against children, it is very effective to teach the child that they own their body and can make choices about their body. That they can say "no" to an adult and that if that adult ignores them then they must tell another adult.

Dear Deane,

I don't think we are going to agree on this, because it seems to me that making the punishment soft enough to avoid too much terror is not going to encourage people bent on malicious acts to then stop short of killing and disposing of their victims. This already happens now, and softening up even more is not going to stop it.

Ultimately I think it is for parents [who as you point out may be the very perpetrators] to instruct children in avoiding the advances of the abusers, but that is no guarantee. In my view punishment, of a suitably Draconian sort should be the sanction where precaution fails.

I am sure that the view is a reasonable, but certainly not the only one.

Kindest regards from Fredrik

Fredrik

We needn't agree, or even have a hope of agreeing, to discuss the issue like civilised people.

Deterrence is only one of eight (or so) outcomes that imprisonment - or any type of punitive sanction for that matter - can achieve.

They once hung, drew and quartered people for treason in your country. Didn't stop treason, did it...?

"The strictest law often causes the most serious wrong." - Cicero

Deane

I used to teach English as a foreign language to a group of Norwegian students many moons ago. I told them the true story of a kid in the US who was abducted off the street outside his school. The abductor told the boy that the boy's parents were friends of his and that they wanted him to look after the boy as they didn't love him, had never loved him and never wanted to see him again. The abductor took him to another town and sexually abused the boy for years, sometimes with male friends and sometimes with female friends. The boy put up with it as he thought no one, especially his parents loved him. The boy committed suicide as a young adult.

Having related the story to the class I asked them what they thought would be a fit punishment for the offender. A few said life imprisonment with no hope of parole but most said he should be given the electric chair or castrated first then given the electric chair.

I then told them the true story of another little boy who was chained up inside a hallway cupboard FOR YEARS and only taken out when his parents wanted to use him in their sex games or when they hosed him down in the back yard once a week. Sometimes he was chained up with a dog and fed like a dog but the dog was the only company he had ever known that did not want to harm him. He was regularly beaten and buggered and might have remained chained forever had he not escaped in his early teens.

I then asked the class what chance this poor little boy had of growing up normal and they all replied none at all. He would be scarred for life and would probably be unable to have normal adult relationships.

I then asked them what if the second boy had grown up and become the abductor in the first story as was indeed the case!

I now asked them for a second time what punishment they thought the abductor deserved and not one person thought he should be executed.

It must have been a bloody clever class if they followed that lot in English!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob mccluckie:

Bob, I was a brilliant teacher! Actually most Norwegian children in their mid to late teens speak English better than many British teens. Ask Fredders.

(edit) ...then again, best not ask

Dear Bob,

Please don't underestimate the ability of Norwegians to speak, write, and comprehend English. It is not to be judged by the standards of our own education in English, let alone any language Foreign to British. Quite remarkable is that not only do a good many Norwegian children learn far better English than English childrem ,but also German, Swedish, Dannish, French, Italian, etc. In a small country which looks outwards and does not have a national self absorbtion it is ingrained from a young age to be very competent in Foreign Tongues.

Perhaps the old observation is proven here. If you want to buy, then you may do so in your mother tongue, but it you want to sell then do so in the language of your customer!

At least in Britain we have many territories that basically speak English. No other country except Norway speaks Norwegian! They do a lot of trade in the world!

Kindest regards from Fredrik

PS: Concurrent post! [Smiley]!

And five years after we've hacked off someones genitalia with a rusty knife and now know that person to be innocent......any volunteers to break the news?


Regards,


Willy.

Willy,

This may well be where chemical castration comes in as I have been told that it is not "permanent." I say "may be" as I really don't know, but no doubt it "could" be a treatement that "completely" suppresses libido without a permanent literal removal of the parts...

ATB from Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Polarbear:

quote:

The suggestion was that the couple could see the door of their apartment from their table (50 - 100 metres depending on which report you read). Would you expect someone to break into the apartment from the back, opening shutters, god no. I don't blame the parents here. The person that has snatched little Maddy has had this planned IMO, has seen the child with it's parents and ruthlessly targetted her (pretty and blonde). The blame lies not with the parents or the resort but with the perpetrator of this heinous act.

I am sorry but no matter how close they were to the front door and no matter how clearly they could see the front door, their actions are inexcusable.

You just do not leave children unguarded anywhere, "Would you expect someone to break into the apartment from the back, opening shutters, god no. I don't blame the parents here.". Well someone did unexpected or not and yes I blame the parents.

You don't give someone the opportunity to steal something and then plead innocent when someone takes that opportunity.

I hope to god they find that little girl unharmed, but I find it very hard having any sympathy for the parents,


Regards

PB

This was exactly my first thought. One thing I haven't noticed being mentioned is why didn't the other children wake up. The young girl was supposedly sleeping in between the other kids.

Like Fredrik I and my 8 brothers were all free range. Out at all times of the day even when I was 3 or 4 years old. Mind you in those days neighbours looked out for one another and doors were left unlocked.

Re the tagging not sure I totally agree with it. As the only way you could partially guarantee a childs safety would be to microchip them. A bracelet can be cut off.

Chemical Castration

Castration It's a whole different ball game.

Oh good grief, I mention hacking of their genitalia with a rusty penknife and you all take me seriously as though it would be a punishment to be dished out by a jury.
It was an expression of anger rather than a comment to be taken literally!
You lot.

Anyway, going back to Acad's story telling, does it make any difference that the abuser was abused when it perpetuates the abuse down through the generations? Surely, tragic though it is, it has to be stopped! That you see the background doesn't lessen the monster that the person has become. There are innocent lives to be protected and that must be the most important factor of all.

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

[QUOTE] Oh good grief, I mention hacking of their genitalia with a rusty penknife and you all take me seriously as though it would be a punishment to be dished out by a jury.
It was an expression of anger rather than a comment to be taken literally!
You lot.

I am sure those of use who know you from your many kind and humanitarian posts recognise this Rasher old chop.

quote:

Surely, tragic though it is, it has to be stopped!

Of course it should and must be stopped and no one is suggesting otherwise.

quote:

That you see the background doesn't lessen the monster that the person has become.

The thing about 'monsters' is that they are not monsters but broken human beings. How were they broken? This must be understood.

quote:

There are innocent lives to be protected and that must be the most important factor of all.

No one is suggesting otherwise. Offenders should not be allowed to re-offend. This is clear. I do however, believe they should be treated for an illness rather than merely punished. I appreciate this is easier said than done as a high percentage of these sad pervs do re-offend.

quote:

Anyway, going back to Acad's story telling, does it make any difference that the abuser was abused when it perpetuates the abuse down through the generations?

I think it is important to recognise that the abuser in my post was an 'innocent' himself once upon a time..but not for long. The chances of this wretched man leading a normal life were zero. Merely punishing is not enough - we must seek to understand a problem if we are to learn how to minimise it and then what is now easier said than done may become more readily achieved. I am sure we have learnt a great deal about these wretches and how to treat them over the last 50 years and I hope we continue that learning process and not bow to the publics lynch mob mentality.