Amy Winehouse (and others)
Posted by: long-time-dead on 18 January 2004
Having had the recent pleasure of hearing a couple of tracks from the Amy Winehouse release on R2 whilst driving home, I looked out th ealbum with the intention to buy it.
Now, a BIG problem !!!
Parental Advisory warning - I have two girls, aged 13 and 9, and there is a track on the listing called "F*ck me pumps".
Given that the kids get access to the CD collection and also they are within earshot, I decided to leave the CD on the shelf and keep my cash in my pocket.
Am I in a minority, or are there others who would like to see "cleaner" versions of CDs ??
Now, a BIG problem !!!
Parental Advisory warning - I have two girls, aged 13 and 9, and there is a track on the listing called "F*ck me pumps".
Given that the kids get access to the CD collection and also they are within earshot, I decided to leave the CD on the shelf and keep my cash in my pocket.
Am I in a minority, or are there others who would like to see "cleaner" versions of CDs ??
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by steved
I totally agree with you.
Steve D
Steve D
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by BigH47
There are usually "clean" versions available occcording to the listing on Amazon etc.
Howard
Howard
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by syd
Hi LTD
What is it you specifically object to? I don't know the disc but is it the written word on the track listings or the (expected)lyrical content? As you live in Glasgow you must be aware that your kid's will have seen this word a million times as Graffiti on the streets or heard it at school, and understand exactly what it means, especially the 13 year old. If you like the record, buy it anyway and If you play it when their around use it as the basis of a discussion on the subject of profanity.
BigH47
By a "clean" version do you mean the disc has the offending word blanked out or the track removed?
It may not be the ideal anymore but I'm afraid swearing and swear words and of course the sexual conotations of these words are here to stay.
Yours in Music
Syd
What is it you specifically object to? I don't know the disc but is it the written word on the track listings or the (expected)lyrical content? As you live in Glasgow you must be aware that your kid's will have seen this word a million times as Graffiti on the streets or heard it at school, and understand exactly what it means, especially the 13 year old. If you like the record, buy it anyway and If you play it when their around use it as the basis of a discussion on the subject of profanity.
BigH47
By a "clean" version do you mean the disc has the offending word blanked out or the track removed?
It may not be the ideal anymore but I'm afraid swearing and swear words and of course the sexual conotations of these words are here to stay.
Yours in Music
Syd
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by greeny
You could Buy the CD. COPY to CDR ommitting the offending track and put this 'editted' version in your Collection.
Either that or move to the states, buy your CD's from Walmart wher they seem to have a 'no swearing' policy on all CD's they stock.
I think the problem with this particular CD is that it wouldn't be expected that teens would be the typical market.
Not an issue for me but I can certainly see your point for those with kids. SOmething like the Darkness album I would have thought would appeal strongly to young (male) teens but many/most parents may be uncomfortable with the lyrical content.
Either that or move to the states, buy your CD's from Walmart wher they seem to have a 'no swearing' policy on all CD's they stock.
I think the problem with this particular CD is that it wouldn't be expected that teens would be the typical market.
quote:
Am I in a minority, or are there others who would like to see "cleaner" versions of CDs ??
Not an issue for me but I can certainly see your point for those with kids. SOmething like the Darkness album I would have thought would appeal strongly to young (male) teens but many/most parents may be uncomfortable with the lyrical content.
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by matthewr
I saw Amy doing a PA at HMV Oxford St. last week. She's a bit rough and I doubt I'd want to however impressive her pumps were.
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by greeny
quote:
Originally posted by alexgerrard:
Greenyquote:
SOmething like the Darkness album I would have thought would appeal strongly to young (male) teens but many/most parents may be uncomfortable with the lyrical content.
No offence, but The Darkness is without any appeal whatsoever.
ag
Clearly you are wrong, based on this being one of the bigger sellers of last years albums and spending at least 4 weeks at the top of the charts, it clearly appeals to plenty of people.
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by ejl
Walmart, in its so-far alarmingly successful gambit to become the World's Sole Retailer, has long pressured labels to supply it with only clean, family-friendly musical lyrics.*
This can put real pressure on labels, who, when faced with the prospect of making and distributing two versions of the same, probably modestly-selling record, have opted to go with only the Walmart approved version. Walmart is applying the same limiting standards to their on-line business model.
* "Family-friendly" means not only the removal of profanity, but also the deletion of songs that might seem politically charged (Christian fundamentalist lyrics are an exception). Witness Sheryl Crow's being forced to delete a song critical of Walmart gun-culture from one of her albums.
Eric
This can put real pressure on labels, who, when faced with the prospect of making and distributing two versions of the same, probably modestly-selling record, have opted to go with only the Walmart approved version. Walmart is applying the same limiting standards to their on-line business model.
* "Family-friendly" means not only the removal of profanity, but also the deletion of songs that might seem politically charged (Christian fundamentalist lyrics are an exception). Witness Sheryl Crow's being forced to delete a song critical of Walmart gun-culture from one of her albums.
Eric
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by long-time-dead
Well, comments are abound and I feel it only right and fair to respond.
Syd - given that you live in East Kilbride and I am sure that you know the areas of Greenhills and The Stroud, I am sure that to assume that I, being Glaswegian, am accepting of the things that my home city is tarnished by. Yes, there is a drug problem. Yes, there is a violent element. Yes, there is foul grafitti. Isn't there that in all areas, even in East Kilbride ?
I fondly remember the East Kilbride News and it's "Anti-Buckfast" campaign.
No hard feelings, but please do not throw stones in glass houses. We try our best, especially if we care.
My children do know that swearing exists, but do not see the point in using it. They have been brought up to accept that life comes in all shapes and sizes and their standards are determined by what they, and we, strive to obtain.
Clean CD's - maybe the time has come for CD's to be age restricted depending on content. Parental Advisory does not seem enough considering the content of some material issued recently. This would force the hand of the retailer to be more aware and eventually hurt the pockets of the industry. They do it with movies, why not music ?
Amy - rough as a badger's.... Planned to buy to listen, not to look.
The Darkness - next !
Syd - given that you live in East Kilbride and I am sure that you know the areas of Greenhills and The Stroud, I am sure that to assume that I, being Glaswegian, am accepting of the things that my home city is tarnished by. Yes, there is a drug problem. Yes, there is a violent element. Yes, there is foul grafitti. Isn't there that in all areas, even in East Kilbride ?
I fondly remember the East Kilbride News and it's "Anti-Buckfast" campaign.
No hard feelings, but please do not throw stones in glass houses. We try our best, especially if we care.
My children do know that swearing exists, but do not see the point in using it. They have been brought up to accept that life comes in all shapes and sizes and their standards are determined by what they, and we, strive to obtain.
Clean CD's - maybe the time has come for CD's to be age restricted depending on content. Parental Advisory does not seem enough considering the content of some material issued recently. This would force the hand of the retailer to be more aware and eventually hurt the pockets of the industry. They do it with movies, why not music ?
Amy - rough as a badger's.... Planned to buy to listen, not to look.
The Darkness - next !
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by syd
Long-Time-Dead.
Yes there certainly is these problems in East Kilbride. Kindly point out to me where I said anything to the contrary.
A totally useless Newspaper (Lovingly referred to locally as "the Sparky" and a totally useless campaign in my view. Buckfast is a symptom not the disease. Ban Buckie and something else will quickly take it's place. In my youth It was considered essential to get "Jaked up" on El Dorado, Bullochs special or "Lanny" with a couple of cans of Carslburg before going to the dancing, Football and so on.
I'm not throwing stones just stating facts of life which you obviously acknowledge.
Your'e a very lucky man indeed if you're kids don't swear. My parents would have sworn on oath that I never used bad language but of course I never swore in front of them, in the house or of course in the classroom. Outside with my pals was an entirely different matter. Are you with your children 24/7. I can beleive they don't see the point in using swearing in front of you but outside?, with their friends? how can you be really sure?
Yours in Music
Syd
quote:
Syd - given that you live in East Kilbride and I am sure that you know the areas of Greenhills and The Stroud, I am sure that to assume that I, being Glaswegian, am accepting of the things that my home city is tarnished by. Yes, there is a drug problem. Yes, there is a violent element. Yes, there is foul grafitti. Isn't there that in all areas, even in East Kilbride ?
Yes there certainly is these problems in East Kilbride. Kindly point out to me where I said anything to the contrary.
quote:
I fondly remember the East Kilbride News and it's "Anti-Buckfast" campaign.
A totally useless Newspaper (Lovingly referred to locally as "the Sparky" and a totally useless campaign in my view. Buckfast is a symptom not the disease. Ban Buckie and something else will quickly take it's place. In my youth It was considered essential to get "Jaked up" on El Dorado, Bullochs special or "Lanny" with a couple of cans of Carslburg before going to the dancing, Football and so on.
quote:
No hard feelings, but please do not throw stones in glass houses. We try our best, especially if we care.
I'm not throwing stones just stating facts of life which you obviously acknowledge.
quote:
My children do know that swearing exists, but do not see the point in using it. They have been brought up to accept that life comes in all shapes and sizes and their standards are determined by what they, and we, strive to obtain.
Your'e a very lucky man indeed if you're kids don't swear. My parents would have sworn on oath that I never used bad language but of course I never swore in front of them, in the house or of course in the classroom. Outside with my pals was an entirely different matter. Are you with your children 24/7. I can beleive they don't see the point in using swearing in front of you but outside?, with their friends? how can you be really sure?
Yours in Music
Syd
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by greeny
quote:
Please accept my apologies. The UK album charts are a perfect barometer of artistic merit, which is why genius's like Dido, Will Young and Evanescence sell by the skip full
Arh, but you didn't mention artistic merit,
you talked about 'appeal' which pretty much by definition high selling albums must have.quote:
Unfortunately, and it genuinely pains me to admit this, my son loves The Darkness
I don't know how old your son is but this may support my point that The Darkness 'appeals' to teenage (males) and thus the swearing (which is what this thread is about) may be an issue.
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by RICHYH
Alex- I totally agree with you. (your son is 9 months old today).
Artistic merit is in an appalling state in the UK today.
Artistic merit is in an appalling state in the UK today.
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by Tom F
CD-R
L-T-D
This seems like a pretty good option to me.
Alternatively, could you blank out the offending part of the track listing on the case itself (is this not already asterisked?)?
G/F has bought the album and although I haven't listened closely (not really my thing) I don't particularly remember any profanity in the lyrics. Of course, I could be quite wrong.
While I can swear like the proverbial trooper on occasion, I think the key is recognising when (if at all) it is appropriate. Knowing when not to "eff and jeff" (as it is euphemistically put in Manchester) is an important part of growing up and maintaining standards.
Mind you, it seems that some standards have gone the other way:
I grew up near the market town of Banbury. One fairly innocuous street is named "Parson's Street". Story has it that this was its second recorded name and only came about when a parsonage was built in order to disperse the local prostitues. Prior to the arrival of the parsonage, this red light district was more descriptively known as "C--- Pit Lane".
quote:
You could Buy the CD. COPY to CDR ommitting the offending track and put this 'editted' version in your Collection.
L-T-D
This seems like a pretty good option to me.
Alternatively, could you blank out the offending part of the track listing on the case itself (is this not already asterisked?)?
G/F has bought the album and although I haven't listened closely (not really my thing) I don't particularly remember any profanity in the lyrics. Of course, I could be quite wrong.
While I can swear like the proverbial trooper on occasion, I think the key is recognising when (if at all) it is appropriate. Knowing when not to "eff and jeff" (as it is euphemistically put in Manchester) is an important part of growing up and maintaining standards.
Mind you, it seems that some standards have gone the other way:
I grew up near the market town of Banbury. One fairly innocuous street is named "Parson's Street". Story has it that this was its second recorded name and only came about when a parsonage was built in order to disperse the local prostitues. Prior to the arrival of the parsonage, this red light district was more descriptively known as "C--- Pit Lane".
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by syd
Regarding swearing on records can anybody furnish me with the earliest record with clearly audible or printed swearing on it. The earliest I can recall is Al Stewarts Love Chronicles Album from 1969. The lyrics are printed in the gatefold for the title song and near the end include the line "it grew to be less like fucking, and more like making love".
I'm sure their are earlier examples and I am only including music records and not Comedy/poetry recitals etc.
Yours in Music
Syd
I'm sure their are earlier examples and I am only including music records and not Comedy/poetry recitals etc.
Yours in Music
Syd
Posted on: 20 January 2004 by ejl
Syd,
Billyboy Arnold recorded a blues track called "Dirty Mother Fucker" in the early 1950's. The lyrics were not edited, although the word "fucker" was removed from the label.
I bet with some searching you'd find earlier recorded examples in the blues lyrics of the 1920s. Certainly "damn" "hell", etc. were commonly used by Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson, etc.
Bessie Jackson (a.k.a., Lucille Bogan) produced no shortage of ribald lyrics on her records. "Shave 'em Dry", e.g., included the lines:
"I got nipples on my titties as big as your thumb
I got something between my legs make a dead man come."
This was late 1920's.
Eric
Billyboy Arnold recorded a blues track called "Dirty Mother Fucker" in the early 1950's. The lyrics were not edited, although the word "fucker" was removed from the label.
I bet with some searching you'd find earlier recorded examples in the blues lyrics of the 1920s. Certainly "damn" "hell", etc. were commonly used by Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson, etc.
Bessie Jackson (a.k.a., Lucille Bogan) produced no shortage of ribald lyrics on her records. "Shave 'em Dry", e.g., included the lines:
"I got nipples on my titties as big as your thumb
I got something between my legs make a dead man come."
This was late 1920's.
Eric