Nait 3 and Speakers

Posted by: plynnplynn on 28 February 2002

Twenty five years ago I built KEFKIT 3 speakers. Two years ago I upgraded the tweater, had new cross-overs built, internal wiring replaced, external connections changed (all from Wilmslow Audio). I then added spikes and sat the spiked speakers on concrete blocks which have been surrounded (attractively I would claim) with wood. A significant sound improvement was noticeable at each stage.

I have a Nait 3 with phono, Rega Planar 3, CD3.5 with Flatcap and NACA5 leads.

I am now considering changing my speakers - purchasing second-hand. Has anyone an opinion on Linn Keilidh with this system? What aboout Linn Kaber (passive)? The message I will probably get about Kaber is that the Nait is not powerful enough. I have heard a Nait connected to a Kaber and so it will drive it but I had no comparison at the time and so i am not sure if it will drive it very well.

If I purchased Kaber and decide that the Nait was no use would a second hand 180 be the best way forward with the Nait converted as a pre-amp?

Anyone other suggestions for speakers?

All serious thoughts and suggestions welcome.

Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Phil Barry

What do you hope to accomplish? Usually, upgrading the source first is the best use of upgrade dollars.

Posted on: 28 February 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
What do you hope to accomplish? Usually, upgrading the source first is the best use of upgrade dollars.

I believe that my speakers are the weakest link in the system and so I want to upgrade them at this point. I don't however want to upgrade the speakers now, then upgrade the Nait which is probably next weakest and bne in a position that I feel I should upgrade the speakers again immediately.

Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Mike Sae

Your electronics are nicely balanced, so I guess you need to get the speakers up to snuff for round 2

What's your price range? Some good places to start would be Neat Critique/Mystique, Rega Alya/Ela and Epos M12/M15. Each brand has different a different flavour, with the Neats being my faves.

Posted on: 01 March 2002 by Scott Mckenzie

I use Dynaudio Audience 40 in a similar system, and in my small room they work brilliantly...

Another suggestion for you...

Scott

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Mckenzie:
I use Dynaudio Audience 40 in a similar system, and in my small room they work brilliantly...
Another suggestion for you...
Scott

Thanks Scott - my local dealer tried to talk me into Dynaudio Contour 1.3 but I haven't heard any yet - hadn't time - but may come back to look the Audience and the Contour ranges. I know that Dynaudio also produce their own drive units and so know a bit about the subject. I haven't had time to read up about the company or the speakers but thanks for your contribution.

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Sae:
Your electronics are nicely balanced, so I guess you need to get the speakers up to snuff for round 2
What's your price range? Some good places to start would be Neat Critique/Mystique, Rega Alya/Ela and Epos M12/M15. Each brand has different a different flavour, with the Neats being my faves.

Thanks Mike
I will have alook at your suggestions. These speakers seem to be mentioned elswhere on a regular basis and so I guess they do match well with equipment/set-up that I have. Thanks for your contribution.

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by Chris Brandon

What kind of sound are you after ?

Fast and lean or something a little "cuddlier" ?

Regards

Chris

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Brandon:
What kind of sound are you after ?
Fast and lean or something a little "cuddlier" ?
Regards
Chris

Thanks Chris
Probably not on the 'cuddlier' side although the music I listen to is more folk, Celtic, 'mild' jazz, instrumental, popular classical. I do like to be 'made' to listen and not just have it in the background.

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Steve T:
Definitely worth a listen - loads of fun but not especially natural sounding. I guess you'll either love them or hate them.
One plus is that Naim speakers don't seem to hold their value anywhere near as well as the electronics so they're excellent value s/h

Steve
I am getting conflicting stories about Naim speakers. Has anyone used SBLs with a Nait and CD3.5 or is it just not sensible?

Posted on: 02 March 2002 by Chris Brandon

Being driven by a Nait 3,SBL's would possibly not be the best way forward,not that there's anything wrong with the Nait-far from it,it's musically very accomplished,but more suitable partners would be along the lines of Rega Ela's,Royd Minstrels(se not the "stock" item)

In the context of your current system and going along with the "Near Free" philosophy,I would advise you to try a pair of Rega Ela's,the ones prior to the newest incarnation (not heard the latest)
I can thoroughly recommend them. You see these on Loot from uk£150 + (even at dealers,they are still relativly cheap).

I have not heard the Neats/Epos models mentioned,so I cant comment on these. But at the end of the day if you make an auditioning shortlist from the above recommendations,you should find something that you like

Regards

Chris

Posted on: 03 March 2002 by Rico

Plynnplynn

Welcome to the forum. IMHO, I suspect that the upgrade you propose will ultimately see you then change your amp, upgrade the preamp, and then the source, all to satisfy the weaknesses exposed by the speakers you suggest.

My advice would be to choose a dealer first, and then set about deciding on the best course. This may save you much heartache! If Montrose is not too far, I understand Robert Ritchie is very, very good. At the very least, any competent Naim dealer should be able to assist you in your quest. Intros, and the models mentioned in previous posts should be auditioned... but do bear in mind that real improvements will ultimately be borne from the source.

To this end, moving back along the chain assuming you have found suitable speakers (without "mulleting" the system), perhaps a 72/140 combo would provide more grip/drive/and subtlety, and then a CDX replacing the 3.5/Flat would move your system forward in bounds. However, given the right speakers for a the Nait, a CDX/Nait combo may well be just the ticket. Let your ears decide.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Posted on: 03 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Plynnplynn
Welcome to the forum. IMHO, I suspect that the upgrade you propose will ultimately see you then change your amp, upgrade the preamp, and then the source, all to satisfy the weaknesses exposed by the speakers you suggest.
My advice would be to choose a dealer first, and then set about deciding on the best course. This may save you much heartache! If Montrose is not too far, I understand Robert Ritchie is very, very good. At the very least, any competent Naim dealer should be able to assist you in your quest. Intros, and the models mentioned in previous posts should be auditioned... but do bear in mind that real improvements will ultimately be borne from the source.
To this end, moving back along the chain assuming you have found suitable speakers (without "mulleting" the system), perhaps a 72/140 combo would provide more grip/drive/and subtlety, and then a CDX replacing the 3.5/Flat would move your system forward in bounds. However, given the right speakers for a the Nait, a CDX/Nait combo may well be just the ticket. Let your ears decide.
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Thanks Rico
Lots of good logical advice here. People do however defy logic sometimes. That may be the case here but perhaps I have a modicum of sense.

Robert Ritchie has been the source of my equipment and a helpful man he can indeed be. Logic would say - go to Robert and take your speakers to do a comparison (my speakers are 120 pounds weight each plus stands which consist of concrete slabs and wood). Alternatively go to Robert and audition a few speakers and get a pair home for a week. I could do that but I want to buy second-hand for the obvious reason. This poses some problems. I just cannot allow myself to 'use dealers' to show me their products with no intention of buying. Perhaps you can see now that a comparison of my speakers against others is rather difficult. I am basically unsure of how good my existing speakers are - I suspect however that there is nothing under £1000 which is much better - I could of course be wrong. Listening tests under other circumstances have however lead me to believe that that is the case.

You are probably now saying that it is definitely not speakers that I need but that the source is what I should deal with. That is under way too as I am upgrading my turntable with Origin Live upgrade and new cartridge.

But perhaps you are right - perhaps my heart is ruling my head - and I just WANT other speakers. Perhaps mulleting is what I am doing but the heart feels good and so the music feels better (maybe it will also sound better). It is good fun not heartache.

Thank you sincerely for your contribution.

Posted on: 03 March 2002 by plynnplynn

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Brandon:
Being driven by a Nait 3,SBL's would possibly not be the best way forward,not that there's anything wrong with the Nait-far from it,it's musically very accomplished,but more suitable partners would be along the lines of Rega Ela's,Royd Minstrels(se not the "stock" item)
In the context of your current system and going along with the "Near Free" philosophy,I would advise you to try a pair of Rega Ela's,the ones prior to the newest incarnation (not heard the latest)
I can thoroughly recommend them. You see these on Loot from uk£150 + (even at dealers,they are still relativly cheap).
I have not heard the Neats/Epos models mentioned,so I cant comment on these. But at the end of the day if you make an auditioning shortlist from the above recommendations,you should find something that you like
Regards
Chris

Thanks for your contribution Chris. I must look these out and see what they look like and perhaps even see if I can hear them somewhere.

Posted on: 03 March 2002 by Scott Mckenzie

I was very impressed by Ela's too, but for my situation Audience 40's suited me better...

You mention being recommended Contour 1.3's....they are great speakers and easier to drive than the 1.1's, but they had a tad too much bass for my taste...the 1.1's were absolutely perfect, but I have heard people claim the Nait couldn't drive them..(I never noticed myself...should listen again as I have had my ear syringed now!!)

I personally love the Dynaudio sound...and am very interested in their funky looking new Confidence range....

If you can afford Contour 1.3SE's you are talking a whole new league, though again I suspect them being too tricky for a Nait to handle...gorgeous sound (and looks too, which is rare for Dyn!!)

Scott

Posted on: 12 March 2002 by garth

I used keilidhs in a system similar to yours - planar 3, planet, 32.5/90. I didn't want speakers that would force me to buy a more powerful amp and, given the rather limited possibilities here in the colonies, demoed the keilidhs at home, liked them and bought them. The little 90 drove them to high levels in my smallish room with no apparent strain to my ears. Very involving. I'd say they are on the cuddly side of neutrality - as opposed to kabers which I demoed at the dealers' and found a little dry but enjoyable. Didn't pursue a home demo of kabers as I suspected the 90 would be overly taxed kabers would point out weaknesses in the rest of my system.

Speakers seem to be the most personal of audio components so if you can't demo at home I wouldn't buy any speaker unless I got it at such a price that I knew I could turn around and sell it at the same price in a weekend if I didn't like it.

cheers,
garth