Amp Upgrade

Using CD5/202/200 without any power supplies for now. The amps just got plugged in on Saturday and I have to say no comments on the sound for now as it is quite unbearable (and according to the experts here, I have to be patient at least for a few more days). My friend is facing the same dilemma as you and the question lies in what kind of speakers are you driving and your listening area. The power of 200 is substantially higher than the 150 and for 112/202 comparison, I cant say anything until the set stabilize. Hope it helps.

Well Harry, that's easy. Your options are to either buy a HiCap first (you can always us this) or buy a 200 and use your Nait as a pre. When I had a Nait 5 it sounded really good as a pre together with a 180. When funds allow you could go 202. Easy...

My personal knowledge of the various amps in the range is fairly limited, but listening to the forum views that the 72 is better than a 102 blah blah.etc..makes me wish that I had upgraded in smaller jumps, in order to fully evaluate the journey, and more importantly, where I am on it. You say you like the sound of 112/150. If it were me, I would go get it now. Why the hell not! Then you can quantify the upgrade and gain knowledge for next time. Well...there will be a next time..

Hello all,

why not mix the 5-series with the classic-series?
What do you think about a NAC202 + NAP150?
If more power is not needed then I think this is a good combination (not heard).

And you can add a NAPSC later. And then a Hi-Cap.

In the press-release of both the NAC202 and the NAC282 Naim says that they can be powered by the NAP150. That does not say that it sounds good.

Greetings, Hans

Harris -

I found the 200/202 to be significantly better than the 150/112. After a suitable break-in period, you will have a wonderful combination that represents excellent VFM IMHO. If the 150/112 would represent your last amp/preamp purchase for a long time, you probably are fine going with it. The combination also represents good VFM and is considerably less expensive than the 200/202. However, if you fear that you may not be done, it probably would be much cheaper for you to wait the six months and spring for the 200/202. I had my 200/202 fir several months without any power supply and thought it sounded tremendous. I added a NA PSC2 not too long ago, which improved the sound, although not on a jaw dropping basis. Eventually I will add a Hi-Cap, although not until I've sprung for a Naim CD player and possible a new tuner. Although I know the Hi-Cap will make my combo much better (I've already demo'ed it), the 200/202/PSC2 combo never disappoints as it is. Finally, don't be afraid to compare the 200/202 with the 150/112. If you don't hear a big difference, you will have satisfied yourself that you did the right thing getting the 150/112 and saved yourself some money. If, as I suspect, you love the 200/202, you will be able to justify waiting the six months knowing what an awesome system you're getting and avoiding an upgrade that may have been necessary if you went with the 150/112. In the end, only you can decide whether the improvements in the 200/202 justify the added cost. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

MBM

First, those of us who really like the Naim sound TEND to agree that jumping 2 levels pays off, while there is some controversy over the value for money (VFM) of jumping only one level.

Second, me experience is that bigger jumps tend to save money - starting at the top of the line results in spending fewer dollars than getting to the TOL in increments - but I haven't done any NPV calculations, so I don't know if starting at the top really costs less money.

Third, the money spent is not the whole story - I went trhough several steps to get my current system, so I spent more money than just starting here, but I got increased musical enjoyment in increments, too, so I got something for the extra dollars.

Fourth, actually, I may have pent fewer dollars, since i bought used, and my boxes decreased in price along the way.

Fifth, I think you're in a position with limited options. You have to give up the idea of a 202/200, or you have to listen to the combo and risk overspending your budget.

When I've been caught in your dilemma, I've always put off the decision until I could come close to affording the higher level system - 'cause that's generally the way I chose.

Enjoy your search.

Phil Barry

Hello all,

why do I read that some people use a Nait5 as a preamp with some serious poweramps (NAP250)?
Is it because they want some serious power and a remote control but do not have enough money for a serious preamp?
I also have a Nait5 and my first upgrade will be a poweramp (NAP150 I think). But that will be only an intermediate step. The next step (a NAC202 I think) will follow as soon as possible.

I still do not understand why to recommend the Nait5 as a preamp. Where is source first?

When I buy a NAP150 and not a NAP200 then I save 900 Euro. And with 900 Euro extra I can buy the NAC202 sooner (or have the FlatCap2 for free).

Is the NAP200 really better than a NAP150?
Yes, it has more power. But, the topology is the same (I think). And when you do not need the extra power? I would save the money for a NAP250. And first a Hi-Cap.

Greetings, Hans

Hans

Yes I am suspicious of all of the non-source first advice that seems to be cropping up myself. I do believe I could make use of the extra power of a 200 but do not want to do it at the expense of overall sound and musicality.
In my case this would be the last purchase for quite some time, excluding perhaps a power supply so I do not want a temporarily unbalanced system.

So far I think I have no choice but to demo the 202/200 and risk never being able to afford it! However, I have seen opinion on this forum that this combo is too revealing with a CD5 (+ps) and that a complete 5 series system with a FC2 is better balanced. Bugger, this is not getting any easier.

Harris,

You asked for amp advice. That's what you got. I'm basically a source-firster, but did you really want the best advice: buy a turntable-arm-cart and a lot of LPs? :-)

And for the money you're talking about, a new CDX2 is out of the question.

If you change your question to 'What is the best use of my several hundred pounds?', you'd get different responses.

Regards.

Phil

Harris - You are right in that you may end up wanting the 202/200, and then needing a CDX2 to make use of it. Thats the budget really blown.
I'm no expert, but if balance and source first is your concern, then get the 112/150 for now (still a worthwhile upgrade) then get a CDX2 when you can, and then onto better amps.
Myself - I'm a mullet. 3.5 into 135's into SBL's. But that's just me.
If it was easy, this forum would be empty.

Hello all,

yes, Phil Barry is right:
"You asked for amp advice. That's what you got."
Sorry for not being clear. I meant:
"preamp first (just like source first)".
Now I have started talking about CD-players (sorry).
Back to topic:

I mean that I think the preamp is more important than the power amplifier. And the NAC202 is much better than the NAC112. While the NAP200 is only more powerful than the NAP150 (correct me if I am wrong).

Harris Vallianatos: "I do believe I could make use of the extra power of a 200"
But you do not need it because otherwise your Nait will not sound good.

Some figures:
model, power at 8 Ohm, burst power
Nait5, 30W, 125VA
NAP150, 50W, 250VA
NAP200, 70W, 300VA
The difference between Nait5 and NAP150 is huge (+ 100%) while the difference between NAP150 and NAP200 is not so big (+ 20%).

By the way: I have sold my difficult to drive loudspeakers (Dynaudio) for much easier ones (B&W DM4 (90dB, 8 Ohm nominal, 6 Ohm minimum)).

Greetings, Hans

I think it is a case of sell CD5 s/h and buy either a CDX2 new or CDX and possibly poweramp or HC ( for Nait 5 - does this work?) s/h. You should be able to do this for the price of new 202/200.

The CDX is a significant improvement on CD5/FC so CDX2 should be a lot better. Go have a listen and see what you like.

Matthew

Phil

Sorry - I was not clear enough. Lets clear this up - I wanted amp advice and I shouldn't have said 'source' first I should have said source-end first ie Preamp. I just can't imagine (and would be happy to be wrong) that a Nait 5 and 200 can produce the goods.

I will not consider upgrading the source yet because my Nait is struggling with the volume levels I need and to me this is even more important than absolute sound quality. Everyone has given varied but I think valid advice and I am erring towards sticking with the 112/150 just because it will be my last upgrade for years. Second hand 'olives' were never an option mainly because I prefer the sound of the new kit (although I've never heard anything above a 102/180).

Harris,

If you intend to stick with the next amp long term, then I strongly recommend the 202/200 combination. It far outstrips the capabilities of the 112/150 and the 200 has way more drive capabilities over the 150. And yet it won't expose the problems in the CD5 significantly since the CD5 is a much smoother and more capable performer than it has any right to be! The Nait5/200 is actually a suitable combination while you're saving the extra money for the preamp - at least that would give you an interim fillip and removes the temptation to 'just go' with the 112/150. You'd also be surprised at just how good the preamp stage in the Nait5 is - you would see a significant improvement in doing this.

Once you have bought the 202/200, you'll be happy for a long time and if you get the upgraditis bug you wouldn't need to think too hard about it since the amp would not be the weak point.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Harris,

I recently decided to purchase a 112, ended up listening to a 202. This was without question the better preamp, which I bought. The Reference Series is stunning. I heard them with both the 150 and 200, much less difference than the pre's. I use a 180 and if I were you would buy a 202/150 combo, you will not be sorry, spend the extra money saved on a 200 to buy music.

At the weekend (following much forum advice) I finally decided to have a listen to the 202/200 and ended up demoing the following combos all fed by a CD5:

112/150
112/200
202/150
202/200


My initial impressions of the 112/150 were as before, its a good step up from my Nait and I would be very happy with it in my living room - until they connected a 200 on the end of the 112 however. Suddenly all of my music gained an extra depth and clarity to voices and there was more control over the louder, complex sections of rock tracks. Maybe this is an option I thought.

From there we moved straight on to compare it with a 202/200 and 202/150. My opinions of the 202 are that it simply makes everything better but particularly separation of instruments in tracks. It also adds massively to space, depth, image and all those other round earth things we're not meant to care about. However I would say that I didn't notice more of a difference than with the 200 on the end of the 112, just different things - both combos were good although I actually prefered the 112/200.

When the full caboodle was hooked up the plus points of the two classics were combined and my only criticism of the setup is that it really doesn't spare you on poor recordings, everything was revealed, warts n all. This combo is very 'grown up' and sounds very sure footed where my Nait and the 112/150 gets flustered, for example with a bit of Smashing Pumpkins played at reasonable volumes.

As I said before I couldn't afford the pair so I decided along with the dealer that I would buy the 200, stick it on the end of my Nait and come back in 6 months for the 202. I still have my reservations about this as I didn't actually dem this combo but believe it will be better than a Nait alone and the only stepping stone I could afford on the way to the system I want.

Thank you to everyone (especially Franks very calm recommendation) who contributed to leading me down the path to music happiness and financial ruin.