electricity usage system always "ON"
Posted by: robertw on 11 June 2009
SYSTEM:
Naim NAC552/CD555/NAP500/AV2/DVD5/2x175/150/NAIT2 +subwoofer/B&W802D/Pioneer PDP5000EX
QUESTION:
How much electricity does this lot use when left always on, and how much when its running?
My electricity bill is high and I need to reduce it. Which bits can safely be turned off, and which are best left on?
Naim NAC552/CD555/NAP500/AV2/DVD5/2x175/150/NAIT2 +subwoofer/B&W802D/Pioneer PDP5000EX
QUESTION:
How much electricity does this lot use when left always on, and how much when its running?
My electricity bill is high and I need to reduce it. Which bits can safely be turned off, and which are best left on?
Posted on: 11 June 2009 by mikeeschman
low wattage bulbs, new windows, insulation and service central air or replace - anyone of these would save more money on the electric bill than powering down the naim gear.
Posted on: 11 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
Leaving any electrical item on when not in use is a waste.
No other description fits.
If you can afford the waste, and salve your conscience over it, then by all means leave it on.
Otherwise turn it off.
You would not be unique in turning Naim pieces off when not in use.
ATB from George
No other description fits.
If you can afford the waste, and salve your conscience over it, then by all means leave it on.
Otherwise turn it off.
You would not be unique in turning Naim pieces off when not in use.
ATB from George
Posted on: 11 June 2009 by fatcat
If you have an electricity meter that flashes, you can easily calculate the cost. Each flash uses a watt of energy.
The cost per day equals number of flashes per minute times 1.44 times cost per unit of electricity.
I would estimate your system would cost at least £1.00 per day.
The cost per day equals number of flashes per minute times 1.44 times cost per unit of electricity.
I would estimate your system would cost at least £1.00 per day.
Posted on: 11 June 2009 by AS332
A £1 a day just switched on , really . 
Posted on: 11 June 2009 by Consciousmess
I'd exchange my 252 with your 552 and that would give you what another £5000 to spare or 5000 more days with the system on.......
.......actually I've just thought through that sentence and it doesnt follow any logic a all. I think it should mean 'sell your 552 for a 252', but I think I saw your system and thought "Ah, the 552!!!"
Good luck in your pursuits!
Jon
.......actually I've just thought through that sentence and it doesnt follow any logic a all. I think it should mean 'sell your 552 for a 252', but I think I saw your system and thought "Ah, the 552!!!"
Good luck in your pursuits!
Jon
Posted on: 12 June 2009 by oscarskeeper
If you can afford to have this much cash tied up in naim gear, you can afford the electricity bills. Forget it. There's enough things in life worth worrying about. This isn't one of them.
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by robertw
Ok I can afford it but still £110 a month is a waste. The 552/555/500 music siude uses 110 watts when idling. Turning it on/off leads to blown fuses. So I will leave it on.
The cinema side, AV2,175s,DVD5, Pioneer PDP5000EX.. including PS3 gives 500 watts, most of which is the TV, so, all that lot off when not in use.
The big beasts on the music side draw a remarkably low wattage I think. Many thanks for your commentsespecially the facetious ones.
Still if I am going to turn off the big beasts, say when going on holiday, is it preamp then power amp for off and vice versa for on, Or what?
The cinema side, AV2,175s,DVD5, Pioneer PDP5000EX.. including PS3 gives 500 watts, most of which is the TV, so, all that lot off when not in use.
The big beasts on the music side draw a remarkably low wattage I think. Many thanks for your commentsespecially the facetious ones.
Still if I am going to turn off the big beasts, say when going on holiday, is it preamp then power amp for off and vice versa for on, Or what?
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
If you are going on holiday and will be away from home, it isadvisable to turn everything off asnd unplug from the mains in case of lightning.
I know a Forum member who turns his set off all the week while he is at work away from home, and then he uses it over the weekend.
Apparently he has no problems enjoying it. His pre-amp is a 552.
ATB from George
I know a Forum member who turns his set off all the week while he is at work away from home, and then he uses it over the weekend.
Apparently he has no problems enjoying it. His pre-amp is a 552.
ATB from George
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:Originally posted by robertw:
... but still £110 a month is a waste.
I wouldn't disagree but where do you pluck this figure from?
I have asked a colleague in R&D to knock up a spreadsheet to help with this but so far examples are a little less than £1,320 pa that you have been arguing from.
"So a CD5i and Nait 5i will cost about <£10 pa
A CDS3, NAC252/Supercap and 300 would be in the region of <£35 pa"
You'd have to factor in your electricity charges (pence/kWh) and whether this varies for night time use.
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:is it preamp then power amp for off and vice versa for on, Or what?
I think its "Or what"
swith off - power amps then pre amp then sources
switch on - sources, pre amp, power amp
Would be nice if someone else could confirm.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by Adam Meredith:quote:Originally posted by robertw:
... but still £110 a month is a waste.
I wouldn't disagree but where do you pluck this figure from?
Probably the same place your R&D man plucked his figures from.
I have an XPS/CDS2 that idles at a cost of over £80.00 per year,
a pair of mono 110’s at £70 per year and a pre amp PSU at £50.00 per year.
Based on energy cost of 15 pence/kWh.
Perhaps you should buy this for your R&D colleague.
Energy Monitor
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by naim_nymph
quote:swith off - power amps then pre amp then sources
switch on - sources, pre amp, power amp
Would be nice if someone else could confirm.
Cheers
Don
Switch on the pre-amp first.
Switch off the pre-amp last.
nymph
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by fatcat
quote:
Switch on the pre-amp first.
Switch off the pre-amp last.
nymph
CD player on first
CD player off last
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:Originally posted by fatcat:
I have an XPS/CDS2 that idles at a cost of over £80.00 per year
Try http://www.ukpower.co.uk/running-costs-elec.asp and enter the Quiescent Current rating in the Watts box.
I used an average 30.42 days per month = 730.08 hrs per month.
x 12 = per annum.
The one thing I couldn't discover (seemingly without signing up) is what the damn charges are and how these would average over day/night use.
With 23VA (call it watts) and the default 10p per kWh the figure given is £1.679 per month.
Are you running on a 47.65 month year or even, if we double the electricity charge to 20p per Kwh, a 23.82 month year?
This example is from a CDS3 with its standard XPS2.
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by Adam Meredith:quote:Originally posted by fatcat:
I have an XPS/CDS2 that idles at a cost of over £80.00 per year
Try http://www.ukpower.co.uk/running-costs-elec.asp and enter the Quiescent Current rating in the Watts box.
I used an average 30.42 days per month = 730.08 hrs per month.
x 12 = per annum.
The one thing I couldn't discover (seemingly without signing up) is what the damn charges are and how these would average over day/night use.
With 23VA (call it watts) and the default 10p per kWh the figure given is £1.679 per month.
Are you running on a 47.65 month year or even, if we double the electricity charge to 20p per Kwh, a 23.82 month year?
This example is from a CDS3 with its standard XPS2.
Just checked the power consumption of my CDS2/XPS, it is 45 Watts.
I pay 14 pence/kWh, therefore it costs £55.00 per year.
I can’t believe a CDS3, NAC252/Supercap and 300 would cost less than £35 per year
An interesting point is that I replaced the main smoothing capacitors in the XPS about 12 month ago. With the old capacitors the running cost was £80.00 per year.
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by jon h
quote:Originally posted by Adam Meredith:quote:Originally posted by fatcat:
I have an XPS/CDS2 that idles at a cost of over £80.00 per year
Try http://www.ukpower.co.uk/running-costs-elec.asp and enter the Quiescent Current rating in the Watts box.
Do I have to say "power factor" here again? This will cause more swing in the figures than most anything else.
For some real figures, measured on a real power meter, see the figures I posted a year or so again
All else is nonsense as a starting point and you might as well not bother.
Posted on: 13 June 2009 by jon h
quote:
I prefer things with calibration history.
And any consumption figures will be less than the depreciation on any current model equipment.
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by DaveBk
Jon, I assume this is the post(s) you were referreing to above?
As you point out simple V x A calculations are useless in reactive circuits.
quote:
OK, nothing quite like having the right tool for the job (Voltech PM100 Power Analyser!)
I switched everything off, started at the turntable end, turned on each piece, noted the new power, then dropped the lot into Excel to get the power consumptions of each piece. This is true power consumption, *not* volts times amps
Linn/Armageddon -- 4.13 Watts
Hicap/Prefix -- 5.51 Watts
CDS1 at idle -- 23.66 Watts
52/PS -- 23.58 Watts
Supercap/snaxo362 -- 13.6 Watts
1 x 135 -- 12.55 Watts
So adding up my complete system (6x135s), I get to a running idling power consumption of about 150 Watts.
And given the Voltech just spits out these numbers... heres a few more
real power consumption from before = 149.52W
Power factor 0.674
Volts * Amps of 215.6VA
Total harmonic distortion of 2.261%
Mains voltage currently 240.5Vrms
:-)
As you point out simple V x A calculations are useless in reactive circuits.
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by jon honeyball:
Do I have to say "power factor" here again? This will cause more swing in the figures than most anything else.
For some real figures, measured on a real power meter, see the figures I posted a year or so again
All else is nonsense as a starting point and you might as well not bother.
Surely the starting point and the ONLY relevant meter to use is the meter used by the electricity supplier to calculate energy usage.
All the other fancy figures produced by a “real power meter” are worthless.
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:Surely the starting point and the ONLY relevant meter to use is the meter used by the electricity supplier to calculate energy usage.
This seems a patent truth.
All else is theory ...
Strangely this is the meter type hat I used when I worked out, as long ago as 2004, that turning off was the way to go for me.
It halved my summer quarterly bills.
ATB from George
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:Surely the starting point and the ONLY relevant meter to use is the meter used by the electricity supplier to calculate energy usage.
All the other fancy figures produced by a “real power meter” are worthless.
When was the last time you turned everything off (i do mean everything - fridge, clocks, computers, TVs previously on standby, CH Control unit etc etc) to start measuring the power consunption of each element of your hifi set.
I think Jon's power meter probably does a pretty good job (ie gives a realistic value)and is a lot more convenient. Not something to loose too much sleep over IMHO
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
In 2004 as indicated in my last post.
ATB from george
ATB from george
Posted on: 14 June 2009 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by Don Atkinson:quote:Surely the starting point and the ONLY relevant meter to use is the meter used by the electricity supplier to calculate energy usage.
All the other fancy figures produced by a “real power meter” are worthless.
When was the last time you turned everything off (i do mean everything - fridge, clocks, computers, TVs previously on standby, CH Control unit etc etc) to start measuring the power consunption of each element of your hifi set.
I think Jon's power meter probably does a pretty good job (ie gives a realistic value)and is a lot more convenient. Not something to loose too much sleep over IMHO
Cheers
Don
You don’t need turn everything else off.
Although turning the fridge and freezer would be a good idea.
You note the energy consumption of all the household appliances on standby. You then note the energy consumption of the household appliances and your piece of hifi equipment. Subtracting one from the other give energy consumption of hifi kit. It’s not rocket surgery.
Its always a good idea to repeat the test. If the results are the same, fine, if not start again.
I personally switch off in the summer, leave on in the winter.
Posted on: 15 June 2009 by Rockingdoc
It depends whether you regard leaving the system switched on when idle is system usage or electricity wastage.
It isn't all about money, there is an environmental cost. I've started turning mine off and accept that it doesn't sound as good for the first half hour of a listening session.
It isn't all about money, there is an environmental cost. I've started turning mine off and accept that it doesn't sound as good for the first half hour of a listening session.
Posted on: 15 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
I agree with with what Doc wrote.
ATB from George
ATB from George