A Record Library, 2008

Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 29 July 2008

With apolgies for the potentially dull idea. Here is the list as it has shaped up now. There may be a few ommisions, but nothing serious. Compared to the last list, it shows a slight reduction, which is in my view a healthy thing as the radio does a wonderful job of filling in things I enjoy but would never buy a recording of:

Albinoni

Two Oboe concertos
- Evelyn Rothwell, Halle Orchestra, Barbirolli, Pye studio

Beatles
The Beatles/ 1967-1970

JS Bach

Mass In B Minor
- Leonhardt DHM studio
- Georges Enescu, 1950 live BBC recording

Six Partitas, Six French Suites, Six English Suites, Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue, French Overture and Italian Concerto, Goldberg Variations. The Well Tempered Clavier, 15 Two Part Inventions, and 15 Three Part Inventions
- Helmut Walcha - Harpsichord (Ammer)

Six French Suites
- Thurston Dart - Clavichord.
- Hogwood - Harpsichord

Goldberg Variations
- Leonhardt

Organ Works (incomplete mono set) and The art Of Fugue
- H Walcha - Organs at Lubeck, Cappel and Alkmaar from Bach's time.

Art Of Fugue
- Rubsam - Organ
- Munchinger and the Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra
- Morrony - Harpsichord
- Fugues only - Scheidegger

Toccatas in C Minor and in D, BWV 911/2, Prelude and Fugue (Book One) in D, Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue, Italian Concerto, Concerto in C for two Keyboards
- Artur Schnabel - piano, with Karl Ulrich Schnabel - piano 2, and the LSO under Boult.

Fantasy and Fugue in C Minor, BWV 906, Fantasy and Fugue in A Minor, BWV 904, Saint Anne Prelude and Fugue (arr. Busoni), Adagio (arr. Bach from Marcello's Oboe Concerto in C Minor) Ricecare in Six Parts (Arr Fischer for strings) “Ich ruf zu dir, Her Jesus Christ [(Arr Busoni]
- Edwin Fischer piano and conductor.

Brandenburg Concertos
- HM Linde Consort
- Scholar Cantorum Basiliensis, and August Wenzinger
- Adolph Busch Chamber Players
- Mogens Wöldike
- Kujiken, live radio recordings
- No live at the QEH, HM Linde in 1985
- No 2 and No 5. Philharmonia, with Edwin Fischer
- No 3. Various private recordings.
- No 5. Private recording.

Orchestral Suites
- Adolph Busch Chamber Players
- Kujiken
- Klemperer, and the Philharmonia in 1954
- No 2, HM Linde
- Nos. 2 and 4, Klemperer, in Budapest, live in 1948/9
- No 1, Busch, live in New York Town Hall in 1943 in a published private recording of Frau Busch's.
- Nos. 1and 2, live at the QEH in 1985. HM Linde

Solo Keyboard Concertos
- Edwin Fischer in No 2 in E, No 1 in D Minor, No 4 in A Major, No 5 in F Minor.
- Nos. 1, 4 and 5. MJ Pires with the Lisbon Gulbenkian Orchestra under Corboz
- No 1, Soloist with HM Linde consort live at the QEH in 1985.
- No 1, E Istomin with Adolph Busch Chamber Players

Multi-keyboard Concertos
- Concerto in F for three Keyboards, BWV 1065 R Serkin, M Horzowsky R Laredo with the Marlboro Festival Orchestra under A Schneider
- Concerto in C for Three Keyboards, BWV 1064 E Fischer R Smith D Matthews with the Philharmonia
- Concerto for Two Keyboards Artur and Karl Ulrich Schnabel, LSO, Boult, HMV 1935

Violin Concertos
- Grumiaux
- Oïstrack
- Busch
- Double Concerto - Soloist with Kujiken in two performances, one live and the other in a studio.
- Arnold and Alma Rose with a Chamber Orchestra probably drawn from the VPO in 1927.

Solo and accompanied Violin Music:
Solo Partitas and Sonatas
- Grumiaux

Accompanied sonatas
- Grumiaux

Adagio from the Sonata in G
- Arnold Rose from 1927

Saint John Passion
- Gardiner

Saint Matthew Passion
- Leonhardt
- Jacques

Magnificat
- Corboz
- Klemperer live in 1948 in Budapest

Ich Habe Genug
- Hotter

Cello Suites
- Fournier

WF Bach
Concerto for two Harpsichords in F Ton Koopman and Tina Mathot

Beethoven
Symphony No 1 in C
- Philharmonia, Klemperer. Live and EMI studio, 1957
-
Symphony No 2
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, Live and EMI studio, 1963 and 1957

Eroica symphony No 3, in E Flat
- VPO, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio recording, 1955 and 1959.

Fourth Symphony in B Flat
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, Live and EMI Studio in 1957

Fifth Symphony in C Minor
- Concertgebeow, Erich Kleiber, Decca studio in 1954
- Philharmonia, Klemperer Live in 1957 and EMI Studio, 1955 and 1959
- Vienna Symphony Orchestra, Klemperer, Vox studio in 1951
- VPO, Klemperer live in 1968 or 69.

Pastoral Symphony No 6 in F
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1957
- Concertgebeow, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954
- Vienna Symphony Orchestra, Klemperer, Vox studio 1951

Seventh Symphony in A
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1955, and live in 1963
- Philharmonia, van Beinum, live in RFH in 1958

Eighth Symphony in F
- Philharmonia, Klemperer EMI studio and live in 1957

Symphony No 9
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, live in 1961 and EMI studio in 1957
- Philharmonia, Furtwangler, live at Lucerne in 1954

Missa Solemnis
- Vienna Symphony Orchestra, Klemperer Vox studio, 1951
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, live in 1963 and EMI studio, 1966

Theatre Music
- Egmont, complete, VPO, Szell
- Overture, two songs and Funeral March, Nilsson, Klemperer
- King Stephen Incidental Music. Hungarian forces on Hungaraton.

Overtures
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio, 1956/63

Piano Concertos
- Schnabel, LSO/ LPO, Sergeant 1932-35
- Barenboim, Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio
- Serkin, live in Italy in the late 50s, orchestra unknown, but this is very fine.
- Emperor, Curzon, VPO, Knappertsbusch
- Emperor, Philharmonia, Edwin Fischer, EMI studio 1950
- Third and Fourth, Fischer with the Philharmonia
- No 4, Dame Myra Hess, LPO, Boult, live at a Prom in 1960.
- Nos. 1,and 2, Philharmonia, Solomon, EMI studio 1054/5

Violin Concerto and Romances
- Josef Suk, Philharmonia, Boult EMI Studio, late 60s.
- Romances played Oïstrack in 1962. DG studio

Piano sonatas
- Annie Fischer
- Complete plus The Diabelli Variation several sets of Bagatelles, and other things. Artur Schnabel
- Late Sonatas, Nos. 27 to 32, Solomon.
- No 9, No 23, and 31 played by Edwin Fischer.

Violin Sonatas
- Haskil/ Grumiaux

Cello Sonatas
Fournier/ Schnabel

String Quartets
- Budapest Quartet)
- Busch Quartet in the EMI and US Columbia series.
- Opus 18 No4 in C Minor, Opus 74 [No.10 in the Cannon], and Opus 131 [14], Rose Quartet.

Fidelio
- ROH, CG, Klemperer, live 1961

Borge
Victor Borge at The Palladium!

Bizet
Symphony in C,
- Beecham

Carmen and Arlesienne Music,
- Beecham

Brahms
Symphonies
- LPO, Boult, Pye Studio in 1954
- LSO/ LPO, Weingartner, EMI Studios between 1938 and 1941
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI
- BPO, Abbado
- Columbia Symphony Orchestra, Walter

Piano Concerto in D Minor
- Solomon
- Curzon

Piano concerto in B Flat
- Solomon

Violin Concerto
- Oïstrack for DG in 1954
- Oïstrack in about 1960 for EMI with Klemperer

Double Concerto
- Suk, Navarra, Czech Phil, K Ancerl
- Schneiderhan/ Starker, RIAS Orchestra, Fricsay

Requiem
- Klemperer for EMI

Clarinet Quintet
- Reginald Kell twice, with the Busch Quartet in 1937, and with the Fine arts Quartet [US based] in about 1960.

Horn Trio
- Aubrey Brain, Adolph Busch and Rudolf Serkin, on EMI

String Quartet in C Minor
- Busch Quartet

Violin Sonatas
- Giaconda de Vito/ Edwin Fischer

Bruckner

Fifth
- VPO, Klemperer, live 1968

Ninth
- Columbia Symphony Orchestra, Bruno Walter

Corelli
12 Grand Concertos, opus 6,
- Pinnock

Couperin
Concerts Royeaux 1 to 4
- Kujiken et al
Eighth Odre and Third and Fourth Concerts from Les Concerts Royeaux
- Laurence Cummings - Harpsichord, and Reiko Ichise - Gamba.
Second Quartet for two Harpsichords, and Les Nations - Impereale
- Koopman and Mathot

Dvorak
Symphonies Nos. 6, 7, & 8 in the series made for HMV in London
- Czech Phil, Vaclav Talich
- Eighth, LPO MacKerras, EMI studio

New World Symphony, with the same artists for Supraphon in 1949. This is the better of two they made within a year, the second being on tape, but both artistically and technically the 78 set wins. The best I know in the music.

Cello Concerto
- Fournier, Philharmonia, Kubelic
- Navarra, National symphony Orchestra, Schwarz
- Rostropovich, Czech Phil, Talich

Violin Concerto
- Josef Suk, Czech Phil, K Ancerl

Piano Quintet
- Schnabel, Pro Arte Quartet
- Serkin, Busch Quartet

Elgar
The Elgar Edition on EMI. 9 CDs from 1994 of the complete (surviving) Electrical Recordings by Elgar between 1926 and 1934.

Symphony Number One in A Flat
- LPO, Boult, HMV studio, 1949
- BBC Philharmonic, George Hurst Naxos Studio in 1992
- BBC SO, Boult. Prom from 1975

Second symphony in E Flat
- BBC SO, Boult, HMV Studio at Bedford in 1944
- BBC Philharmonic, Edward Downes, Naxos studio in about 1992, and also live from a Prom in about 1988!

Elgar/Payne
- Symphony No 3, Bournemouth, Daniel [Not a very good idea].

Violin Concerto
- Sammons, New Queen's Hall Orchestra, Henry Wood, Columbia Studio in 1929

Cello Concerto
- Andre Navarra, Halle, Barbirolli
- Tortelier, BBC SO, Sergeant, HMV Studio in 1954.
- Anthony Pini, LPO, van Beinum, Decca studio 1950

Enigma Variations
- LPO, Boult, HMV Studio 1953

Falstaff
- LPO, Boult, HMV Studio, 1950
- National Youth Orchestra, Christopher Seaman, IMP Studio in about 1986. Brilliant
- LPO, Boult HMV Studio in 1960s

Sanguine Fan and Other Shorts
- LPO, Boult, HMV Studio, 1960s

Concert Overtures
- In The South, and Froissart, LPO, Boult, 1953
- Cockaine, LPO, van Beinum, Decca Studio 1949/50

Violin Sonata
- Sammons Murdoch, Columbia studio in 1935

Dream Of Gerontius
- H Nash an co, Sergeant and the Huddersfield Chorus, with the Liverpool Phil in April 1945 for EMI
- Gedda, Boult Philharmonia, in HMV Studio, 1976.

Faure
Requiem
- Rutter

Greig
Symphony
- N Jarvi, Gothenburg for DG

Piano Concerto
- Solomon, Philharmonia, Menges

Flagstad sings Greig and Scandinavian Melodie, EMI studio, 1919 to 1948. Great Recordings Of The Century issue

Peer Gynt
- Beecham

Holberg Suite (String Version)
- Norwegian chamber Orchestra twice. In 1979 with the beautiful but small complete string music on BIS, and live at the 1985 Edinburgh festival with Iona Brown.

Piano sonata in E Minor etc
- Robert Riefling - piano.


Handel
Messiah
- Pinnock

Concerti Grossi opus 3
- Pinnock

Concerti Grossi, opus 12
- Busch chamber Player, US Columbia studio in 1946
- Pinnock
- No 11 and 12 Bath Festival Orchestra, Menuhin.

Water Music
- Pinnock
- Menuhin, Bath festival Orchestra

Fireworks Music (Original scoring for very large wind band).
- Mackerras

Haydn
Paris Symphonies [nos. 82-87]
- Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, Adam Fischer

88 in G
- Adam Fischer as above with the symphonies through to 92 (this is a great and unsung patch!).

London Symphonies (93 to 104)
- Concertgebeow, Davis, for Philips
- RPO, Beecham, for EMI

Symphony Number 104 in D, The London
- Edwin Fischer Chamber Orchestra.

Trumpet concerto
- Edvard Ole Antonsen, ECO, Tate. A nice bunch of concertos by Hummel, Tartini, and others, this is also the finest version of the Haydn I have come across.

Oboe Concerto in C Major
Evelyn Rothwell [Lady Barbirolli], Halle, Sir John B. This is part of a bouquet of concertos, which are the most wonderful music making. Others represented include Corelli, Pergolesi, Cimarosa, and Marcello. The highlights are the Marcello (which I have in Bach's arrangement played by Fischer in the Adagio alone]. These were re-released by Dutton.

Three Violin Concertos
- Standage, Pinnock

Three Piano Concertos
- Leif Ove Andsnes

Cello Concertos in D and C
- Truls Mork, Norwegian Chamber Orchestra, Iona Brown
- In D: Fournier, Lucerne strings under Baumgartner
- In C: Milos Sadlo, Prague Chamber Orchestra, Alois Klima

Piano sonatas
- John McCabe, for Decca

String quartets
- Sis quartets opus 33, Six, opus 71/74, Six opus 76, Two opus 77, and Last Seven Words From The Cross: Tatrai Quartet. on Hungaraton
- 27 Quartets (plus two by Hoffstetter!), including all the really big late works: - Pro Arte Quartet HMV 1930s Studio.
- Two quartets opus 77 and two fragments opus 103: Mosaïques Quartet.

Seasons
- Colin Davis

Creation, in English
- BBC forces.
- Hogwood

Almost all the Masses in performances by George Guest.

Janacek
Sinfonietta and Four Preludes
- Pro Arte Orchestra, Mackerras

Massanet
Meditation From Thais
- Albert Sammons and Gerald Moore, violin and piano, English Columbia Studio 1928. This is part of a recital that takes in the Sinfonia Concertante of Mozart with Tertis and the Elgar Sonata. These three pieces represent the high point of this new Naxos issue.

Mozart
Symphonies
Very early Ones
- Prague Chamber Orchestra, Mackerras Magic stuff!

25, 29, 31, 33, 34, 35, 36, 38 to 41
- Philharmonia, Klemperer with such rarities as the Masonic Funeral Music.

35, 36, 38, 39, and 41
- VPO Kubelic, HMV Studio

Piano Concertos:
No 9 in E Flat, and 23 in A
- Haskil, VSO, Paul Sacher
- Haskil and Otto Ackermann, live in the 1950s in No 9

No 6, 17 and 21
- Geza Anda, Cam Acc des Salzburger Mozarteums

No 14 in E Flat
- R Serkin, Busch Chamber Players

No 19 and 27
- Haskil, Fricsay with the BPO and Bavarian Radio Orchestras.

No 20 and No 13
- Haskil, with Fricsay and Baumgartner

No 27
- Koln Guerzenich Orchestra Haskil, Otto Klemperer, live performance on Music and Arts

No 20 and 24
- Haskil, Lamoureux Orchestra, Markevitch

No 23 and No 24
- Solomon, Philharmonia
-
No 22 and No 25
- Brendel, Vienna Orchestras
- Paul Angerer. (on Vox, now owned by IMP)

Violin Concertos
- Grumiaux, LSO, Davis
3, 4 and 5
- Szymon Goldberg, Philharmonia, Walter Susskind

Horn concertos
- Civil, Philharmonia, Klemperer

Adagio and Fugue for Strings:
- Busch Chamber Players, EMI Studio in 1938
- Klemperer and the Philharmonia, EMI Studio in 1955

Mass In C Minor
- Gardiner

Requiem
- Vienna State Opera Soloists, VPO, Bruno Walter
- Vienna Boys Choir, Men of Saint Stephen's Cathedral, VSO, Hans Gillesberger. Plus some nice extras, including a wonderful reading of Haydn's gloriously sunlit Te Deum.

Solemn Vespers of the Confessor
- H Rilling

Don Giovanni
- Glyndebourne Festival production under Fritz Busch 1936

Cosi Fan Tutti
- 1935 in Glyndebourne, as above

Marriage Of Figaro:
- 1955, Glyndebourne production under Vittorio Gui.

Magic Flute
none currently

A handful of Piano Sonatas
- Haskil and Edwin Fischer.

Mendelssohn
Italian symphony
- Guido Cantelli, Philharmonia

Elijah
- Sergeant, Huddersfield Chorus, and Harold Williams as Elijah. Columbia from 1948.

Octet
- Members of the VPO, led by Willi Boskowsky. Coupled with Beethoven's Septet not mentioned earlier.

Rachmaninov

Symphonic Dances
- Private recording.

Schubert
Symphonies 3, 5 and 6
- RPO, Beecham

The Unfinished, No 8, in B Minor.
- VPO, Klemperer, live in 1968 or 9

Great C Major
- BBC SO Boult, in HMV Studio in 1934
- BBS CO, Boult live at a 1969 Prom
- Koln Orchestra, Erich Kleiber, live in 1954

Piano Music
Sonata in B flat, D960
- Curzon
- Schnabel

Sonatas in A, D959, in D, D850, Various Shorts (and some duets with KU Schnabel)
- Artur Schnabel

Impromtus, D 899 and 935
- Edwin Fischer with the wanderer Fantasy and Moment Musiceaux
- Artur Schnabel

Octet
- Hausmusik on EMI
- VPO Octet

Trout Quintet
- Curzon and members of the VPO
- Schnabel and members of the Pro Arte Quartet

Arpegionne sonata
- Rostropovich/ Britten

Fantasy in C for Violin and Piano
- Szymon Goldberg/ Radu Lupu
- Adolph Busch/ Rudolf Serkin

String Quartets
- Death and the Maiden, plus two more whose designation I can't remember, and are out at the mo. Busch Quartet

Schumann
Symphonies.
- Boult, LPO, Pye studio, mid fifties
- Sawalisch, Dresden State Orchestra

Piano Quintet
- Schnabel and the Pro Arte Quartet

Sibelius
Symphonies:
- Barbirolli, and the Halle, with such things as the Karelia suite, and Finlandia.
- Anthony Collins and the LSO, which was done for Decca between about 1952 and 55
1, 2, 3, and 5
- Kajanus, who was recommended by Sibelius to make these pioneering and still wonderful recordings. Also contains Tappiola, which is still unsurpassed, and other splendid rarities.
4, 6 and 7
- LPO and RPO under Beecham.

Violin Concerto
- Heifetz, LPO Beecham. EMI Studio pre 1939.

Viennese Strauss Family
150th Vienna Phil Anniversary set of Waltzes, Polkas etc. La Crème de la crème, of the history of this bands association with the Dance Kings of the World!

New Year's Day Concerts,
1979
- Boskowsky's swansong.
1989
- Carlos Kleiber's only time in the concert. Both very special.

Smetana
My Country
- Talich, Czech Phil (1950s)
- Ancerl, Czech Phil (1960s)


Tchaikowsky
Fourth, fifth and “Pathetic” Symphony
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio 1961/3

Violin Concerto
- Oïstrack in Dresden in 1954

Nutcracker suite
- BBC SO, Sergeant

Vaughan Williams
Serenade to Music, Lark ascending, English Folk song Suite etc
- LSO/ LPO, Boult


Walton
Walton conducts Walton, which contains a very great deal of the important big works.

First Symphony:
- LSO, Previn
- LSO, Harty for Decca in 1935

Beshazaar's Feast
- Liverpool Phil, Huddersfield, Walton in 1942

Second Symphony
- Cleveland Orchestra, Szell.

Most of this is still available, and it is amazing how many deleted recordings can still be found on Amazon!

Best wishes from George

Record Library 2006
Posted on: 30 July 2008 by Chillkram
Now I know why you appeared to be absent from the forum yesterday, George!
Posted on: 30 July 2008 by Sloop John B
a few years ago your post would have been double dutch to me.

Thanks to the forum and your good self in particular it's only single Dutch now but there are a few names I recognise and a few cd's that have even made it into my own collection.

I missed your 10000 post. Congrats on your landmark, I think ROTF and Much will soon reach the magic number also.

No changing into JFFG though Winker



SJB
Posted on: 30 July 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear SJB,

I suppose over five years worth of posts including some under my old [pre-re-registration days as Fredrik Fiske] I have covered a great proportion of these recordings in posts here in the Music Room!

Some of them enthusiasms of mine, and some the result of other people's enthusiasms that I have found I agree with, and that is why I still find this place fresh. The subject is huge, and if I can only help a few people discover the glories of Bach or Haydn, or whatever music, then I am pleased. It is lovely to share an enthusiasm, though over the years, I have learned that it is far more pleasing that someone gets to love say the Goldbergs of Bach, even in a performance I personally do not care for, than be put off the music by the incredible choice of approaches to the music.

There was a time when I would insist - with hindsight wrongly so - that for example Glenn Gould playing Bach is the "wrong way to go!"

Now I would say that everyone should go his or her own way, and the choice of Glenn Gould [playing the piano, no comment on the instrument used!!!] or Helmut Walcha or Gustav Leonhardt [two favourites of mine, if quite different in musical aspects] playing the Harpsichord, is "the right way to go!" Now I am simply delighted that they are taking an interest in the music itself! Of course I will try to nudge, and not the least because after 38 years of experimentation I have started to find what will stand a good chance of being a durably enjoyable performance in great music!

I think my sole effort is really to demystify the subject in the areas where I have some experience. To help break down the seeming elitism of it. Nothing more. No personal kudos at all, but an occasional feeling of joy that someone has found something enjoyable and great in music, they might otherwise have missed for the seeming impenetrability of subject.

On the other hand, I am prepared to say that there is not one dud recording in what is posted above.

There is an amazing omission as well. Mendelssohn’s Midsummer Night's Dream Music. Klemperer left a most compelling recording of it that I had two LPs of before getting the CD re-issue fifteen years ago!

Thanks for your reply! George
Posted on: 30 July 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Mark,

The list is not entirely correct, but much more accurate than the old 2006 version for certain. Really I was badly effected by the heat yeaterday, and bringing the list up to date [done off the top of my head] was not such a big effort [of perhaps two hours]. Even now I can see somethings that are wrong in detail. For example the live recordings of Beethoven's First and Eighth Symphonies with Klemperer are from 1963, not '57, and the others are from 1957, not as I suggested in one or two cases from 1963! Not a big issue, but perfection is not human!

It is nice to have enough spare money to buy a few records again. Next week is the Worcester Three Choirs Festival, and I certainly cannot afford to go to these concerts, but I have a friend from Hereford who is professional member of the Hereford contingent [ie. a Ley Clerk from the Hereford Cathedral Choir] staying here most nights, so I shall get the low down on it! Saves on petrol [and tiredness] and might even get me invited to the Final Party! That would be fun!

ATB from George
Posted on: 30 July 2008 by Florestan
Dear George,
I was very happy to read your wise words above; well said.

And what a nice list of music you have in your library. I'd have to say I am very familiar with almost all the music you have listed but it just hit me that there are a few glaring exceptions; it is really only the English music (Elgar, Williams, Walton) that I am not very familiar with at all. I think I am going to make it a goal this year to step out of my own comfort zone and look for some of the recording you have listed of these composers and maybe some others.

Also, I would bet that, although I am very familiar with the rest of the list, I only have about 10 or 15% at most of the actual recordings and/or the musicians/conductors that you hold in high regard here. This will be another goal of mine this year and that is to try and find a few of these gems to add to my collection too.

Thanks again for all your insight and sharing your knowledge and love of music with us all.

Best Regards,
Doug
Posted on: 31 July 2008 by Jet Johnson
quote:
R

....A very interesting list for a non classical fan such as my good self (to me it's triple dutch!) but I have to ask ...are the Beatles the only non classical group in your collection? and if so why them exactly ...

..I'm curious re what type of "pop" music hard core classical fans would ever listen to or is the simple answer they basically don't?

No criticism implied here by the way I'm just interested in how other non pop lovers view rock music!
Posted on: 31 July 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Jet,

It is not the only one, but somehow it crept into the list without the others in reality!

Others include,

Buddy, From The Masters
Edith Piaf [EMI CD compilation called "Best Of ..."]
Ella Fitzgerald [Verve CD called "Best Of ..." which has such achingly sad numbers as "My Funny Valentine," on it. I know I should be listening to a male singer in this song, but the song has a special resonance for me over my fist puppy love, and the girl went off with someone else - broken heart and all that].
Gary Moore, Blues Alive. [Name could be wrong, and this collection of live performances has probably been half inched, as I loaned it, and it has not returned, and I cannot remember to whom ...]
Used to have Eagles "Hell Freezes Over," but fell out with the lead singer's voice. Good songs, delivered in irritating fashion for me.
Brothers In Arms, Dire Straits. For the lovely song “Why Worry?”
Metallica, "S and M."
Apocalyptica, the album with "Nothing Else Matters," on it. I love that song, and especially the Apocalyptica version! Strangely I find it moves met to tears. This is partly a non-musical reaction as I was introduced to this by a very good friend, and the result is the song has a very personal catch for me, as well as being a superb "toon!"
DSOTM. Used to have this, and gave it to a friend who loved pop, but did not know it! must get it again!

So an eclectic rag tag of things. I tend not to buy popular records, but enjoy what friends bring. Most recent session included Kraftwerk, and Claus Schulze! Pop Radio is dire in my view. I do not want to have the same song twice in a month let alone four times in a day!

There have been others that have come and gone over the years.

ATB from George
Posted on: 02 August 2008 by Jet Johnson
....Cheers for that George ..it is interesting to hear from someone who has (I guess) a more subjective view on "pop" music.

so whilst I've got you here (so to speak!) one question I've always wondered about classical music is how much of any average classical lover's collection was written (rather than performed) in say the last 10/20 years.

To my untutored eye a glance at your list seems to indicate most of the recordings are of pieces of music written many many years ago (ok my dates are not good!)

Plebs like my goodself would be aware of Chopin, Beethoven, Mozart et al' and might even know that Benjamin Britten composed his music much more recently than those composers but ....how many really new operas / symphonies etc are written now and do such new compositions sell in any quantity in comparison to the established composers?
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by pe-zulu
Dear George

No need for apologies, this is an excellent list of recommendations.

One question though. Did you forget Carmen Piazzini. Or has your opinion about her changed?
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Jet,

Modern classical music is in serious crisis.

Since the First World War or even before that music composers were contemplating new tonal worlds. The old tonal world of the diatonic, so exemplified by the conventional [if sometimes daringly abrupt] harmonic framework of Bach was not much altered to the time of Brahms, but Wagner pushed the boundaries of tonal harmony into almost but not quite oblivion with his bending of the conventions with his incredible [on occasion] use of chromaticism. He so reduced the concept of following the understood rules, largely static since Bach's time that composers like Strauss and Mahler were forced into a modern less precisely hedged-in harmonic language, and Schoenberg would carry on for a while in this late romantic tonal/chromatic harmonic world, before striking out into the harmonic territory of serialism and atonality. Thus the so called second Viennese School with Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern as perhaps its leading exponents, was born.

After that the use of the tradition harmonic, diatonic framework was called reactionary in intellectual circles, even if it was still the music the audience seems to have wanted to support, with such successes [in the older style] as Walton’s First Symphony in 1935/6…

If that all sounds somewhat difficult to understand, and it may do, then it is the root of the crisis, that is modern classical music. Does one carry on in the direction which eighty years ago left almost all lovers of art-music bemused and not enjoying the world of serialism and atonality, and largely not supporting new concert works, or do you as a composer revert to the reactionary system of the diatonic, with its roots most convincingly stated as coming through JS Bach, Beethoven and Brahms?

The last time new concert works were actually internationally popular was in the pre1914 era, when for example Elgar’s First Symphony achieved 97 performances in the twelve months after it release in the printed form, being played on every continent on earth, which it certainly would not have been had it not been such an attraction to audiences. This is an amazing phenomenon, especially considering the much slower speed of communication in that historical era. Concert promoters do not and never did set concerts up that are doomed to financial failure. Without the broadcasting organisations, nowadays, an awful lot of new music would never see the light of a day in a first performance. An awful lot certainly does not get e second …

The crisis in production really came because the audience for classical music [in the broadest sense, and probably the better word would be "art-music"] came because the audience no longer understood what the music was supposed to mean when the old diatonic order was jettisoned, in the name of modernity, and originality.

The production of new classical music has not yet recovered its equilibrium, and though there is quite a lot of enjoyable modern classical music produced each year, we seem to have no genii such as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and so on today, to lead the composing community. I realise that some will say the Adams, Ades, and others are brilliant, but not decisively able to gather the kind of following that composers like Elgar, Sibelius, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, and so on managed without making artistic compromise to court popularity in the first decades of the twentieth century. These people simply wrote music that the appreciators of works of Mozart, Beethoven or Bach could enjoy and appreciate as the natural modern succession in the musical line.

The line has been broken, and it will take a modern composer of much greater significance than any active today to restore the faith in the possibility of being original in terms of musical ideas, yet modest enough to compose within a structure that evolved naturally in a straight line from the earliest music of pre-history, through the zenith in the Baroque and Classical eras, and showing signs of disintegration in the Romantic era.

Popular music has its crises, but none so apparently insoluble as the crisis of production in "classical" music.

Which brings another problem. With no new music that is able to attract the same sort of audience that would listen to Beethoven, and welcome a new work by the likes of Brahms, how can performance traditions stay alive, and challenged by developing musical ideas? The birth of the "historical" style of performance has arisen in the face of the arid nature of so much modern music. Rather than old music being refracted through the understanding of it as modified by equally great modern music, so that the for the Brahms contemporary, once he or she had heard the latest Brahms Symphony would inevitably listen to an old Beethoven Symphony differently, nowadays we have no such core of great and universally welcomed new music to keep the performance tradition, and tradition of listening to the old music fresh and alive in its place among the new, for the new is so much ignored by the audience, as it does no longer attract the great majority of the audience in the first place.

The seeds of the demise of classical music are in place. It is part of this reaction and general falling off in quality of artists of the first rank that is resulting, that means we can still find more musical wisdom in performing artists challenged by the new music of their young lives such as that of Brahms [especially so in the case of Otto Klemperer for example] whose own understanding of music was also deepened by the fact of often being composers as well [though not of the front rank, it must be said] that we are faced with modern artists, who instead of being innovative performing great new music, tend to keep their innovations to re-interpreting the old music to its detriment.

Either that or falling back on a cold literalism that eschews the linear performing tradition in the music that runs back to the time of the composer in many cases. Bach is exceptional here as he went almost unperformed for a good century after his death, and his music has been a real problem to restore to a convincing performing tradition. A century and a half of musicological study does seem to have uncovered a wealth of information on what is correct in the performance of his music, however, and it is likely that ever without the continuous performing tradition enjoyed by Beethoven for example, that I would be right to speculate that modern Bach performances are probably just as apt as the best modern Beethoven ones are by now.

I am sorry that was so serious, but the issue is serious.


On Popular music, I have no preconceptions or expectations, and like film, it really is a simple case of enjoying this or that, or not enjoying it, without much expectation in advance one way or the other! And no study of the subject, which allow for degree of being informed on something more than the obvious surface.

ATB from George
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Originally posted by pe-zulu:
Dear George

...

One question though. Did you forget Carmen Piazzini. Or has your opinion about her changed?


Dear Poul,

Omitted Carmen Piazzini as an oversight. She is wonderful. Just my perfect modern Mozart pianist!

I must set about filling in a few gaps, and I note I also omitted Edwin Fischer's Mozart Piano Concerto recordings I have as well!

Well spotted, and thanks!

ATB from George
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by Jet Johnson
quote:
....and Schoenberg would carry on for a while in this late romantic tonal/chromatic harmonic world, before striking out into the harmonic territory of serialism and atonality. Thus the so called second Viennese School with Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern as perhaps its leading exponents, was born.


.....Confused
...Erm yes that's exactly what I thought as well ..... Winker

..Seriously George thank you for a such an excellent explanation of a situation that I guess wasn't known to the vast majority of non classical enthusiasts. ...So really there is a dearth of new music being composed in the modern era (or at least if it is being composed it's being ignored in favour of orchestras playing differing interpretations of classic classical pieces (!)....

I've had numerous discussions with fellow rock music enthusiasts re how many albums/groups of the last 20 years will be held in such regard as the obvious ones from the 60's + 70's ..Beatles ..Dylan ..Stones...Hendrix etc....

...It's my opinion that apart from (mebbe's) Radiohead or (for 1 album anyway) The Stone Roses almost all truly great "rock" music was made before 1990 and very little since will be as highly regarded by Mojo magazine's best albums poll of 2028.
(I'm using the term "rock" here in it's generally understood sense because I don't claim to know enough about music such as modern folk to make a similar claim!)
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
I've had numerous discussions with fellow rock music enthusiasts re how many albums/groups of the last 20 years will be held in such regard as the obvious ones from the 60's + 70's ..Beatles ..Dylan ..Stones...Hendrix etc....


Hi Jet

All those by HMHB Smile

They surpass anything I've heard by ..Dylan ..Stones...Hendrix, by some distance, but only a sort-head in front of the Beatles (and Kinks) - IMHO, of course.

Of course, HMHB could be thought of as folk rather rock.

Modern folk is really outstanding these days, there are some fabulous singer/songwriters around - Karine Polwart immediately comes to mind as well as Basia Bulat, although Basia has only cut one fantastic album so far and I hope there is more to come. Rachel Unthank and the Winterset are superb too. I doubt any of these will reach the heights of Shirley Collins, but they do come pretty close at times.

Judging modern artists is always going to be subjective though, as time has not been able to establish what is classic. Not sure I understand the term modern classic - don't classics have to be old by definition (not sure how old).

ATB Rotf
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by Guido Fawkes
Dear George

Janacek
Sinfonietta and Four Preludes
- Pro Arte Orchestra, Mackerras

IMHO - the single best piece of music I have ever heard. I just can't imagine how it could be bettered.

I notice, also, that Christopher Hogwood appears twice in your list and so I'll try to seek out those recordings. I've got a fair bit of his work, not on your favoured format I'm afraid, mostly Academy of Ancient Music under Jaap Schroeder playing Mozart Symphonies: when I get my new TT, they're on my list to play; I always thought there was something enchanting about his playing. I saw him play with Shirley Collins when I was still at school when Shirley and Dolly performed Anthems In Eden and a memory I still treasure.

ATB Rotf
Posted on: 03 August 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear ROTF,

I shall be very surprised if Mozart from Hogwood does not please you! In practice the music fits the LP very nicely as well!

ATB from George