DVD's, music and movies on a stereo

Posted by: bdnyc on 21 December 2001

As a music lover that has always preferred high quality two channel systems to home theater systems, I have inched slowly, cautiously, towards video. While I don't have a surround system, I do have my TV tied into my stereo. Thus a few inputs on my 82 handle the VCR and DVD player's audio outputs. Earlier this year I was about to get an inexpensive Sony DVD player, figuring it was just for video picture quality. On a whim I decided to listen to a mid priced Sony on my system, and found the DVD was an unwelcome reminder of the thin, edgy sound of early CD players. So, to get towards a point,I decided on the Arcam DV 88 DVD player instead. Boy am I glad I did. The Arcam has a nice synergy with a Naim system. The Arcam is very full bodied and laid back, which seems to me to be a better compromise than a thin, shrill sounding model given the bright mixing of many movies.

For those like me, not entirely immune from the call of the sofa, I found that an unexpected bonus with the Arcam is that its remote actually controls the Naim pre-amp for volume and mute, meaning I can wield one remote for most of my movie use. Another cool aspect of the Arcam is that it allows for zoom modes when you are watching a widescreen DVD, if your TV, like most, is a 4 x 3 display without any resizing options built in.

Although I had not expected the DVD player to be that much of a pleasure, it has been a great addition to my system. In some ways, I have been using it more than some of my better sounding purist sources. Movies are great on it, and I have really been enjoying many of the DVD's that are taken from live music performances. Current favorites are Emmylou Harris and Spyboy, taken from a small club in Nashville, Paul Simon playing in Paris supporting his most recent album, the great Jonathan Demme Talking Head's movie "Stop Making Sense", and a great show by the Dead called "View From the Vault Vol. II, taken from summer of 1991, when Garcia was still playing with gusto and interest, and Bruce Hornsby was holding down the band's piano chair. I can hardly wait for things like the Band's "The Last Waltz" to be issued on DVD.

From being a sceptic, I am now heading towards convergence more eagerly. I don't know if I will have the room, or motivation to address a full surround system, but video is now hugely more enjoyable due to the fact that the audio sounds so great. Now, what was that about a Naim DVD player...

Happy holidays to all Naimites, and the best for the New Year.

Posted on: 22 December 2001 by Scott Mckenzie

I know you are in the US, so this is probably of little interest to yourself, but others may have the same player as you..

Multi Region Hack

The DV88 is factory set to Region 2 and the official line on changing regions isn’t something that Arcam or official dealers openly talk about.

Being based on the Zoran chipset, you can change regions manually via codes on the remote control.

With the tray open, key in 1111, 01 – this sets region 1. 1111, 02 – this sets region 2 or 1111, 13 – this sets auto region selection.

Manually selecting one region at a time for playback did seem to give slightly better video performance however. This could be something to do with the NTSC/PAL signal to the TV.

Scott

Posted on: 22 December 2001 by Allan Probin

I had the opportunity to listen to 5.1 audio last night in a friends home cinema setup. This was configured for movies rather than purely audio therefore the rear speakers were not oriented or positioned correctly for 5.1 audio but despite that and based on the relatively low cost of the system I was really impressed with what I heard.

It consisted of a 3 year old panasonic DVD player, Yamaha DSP-A2 decoder/amp, KEF Cresta speakers front, rear & centre and a REL Storm sub. To test out the ability as a HiFi system the disks we played were audio-only 5.1 DTS DVDs. I've heard much more expensive HiFi-only systems sound pretty flat and unintersting compared to what I heard last night. Okay, its not HiFi as we know it but nevertheless it had a very immediate impressive quality about it.

With a good HiFi system it feels like being present in the studio during the recording, this had much more of a being-at-the-concert feel about. Levels were set for home-cinema and the bass was probably a bit overblown and out of proportion (just like many live gigs anyway) but had great impact and power. It definitely had that feeling of involvement and presence. I was surprisingly impressed.

Now if thats what can be achieved with mass-market mainstream products, slung together in a decidedly non-audiophile way then I'm sure there must be great potential in the format if sympathetically applied

I strongly suspect the new Naim CD will be DVD-A 5.1 capable. Will the new pre have 5.1 inputs ? I know an active sub is on the way. I wonder if this is also the time for a small kan-sized sealed-box loudspeaker ostensibly for use as rear or side speakers ?

Allan

[This message was edited by Allan Probin on SATURDAY 22 December 2001 at 17:36.]

Posted on: 22 December 2001 by Steve G

I went to visit one of my mates yesterday as he'd just taken delivery of a 42" plasma telly. Well, it'd have been rude not to.

He's into movies and music but he's no purist so his system is designed for AV above everything else. His sources are a Rega Planar 3, Arcam DV88 DVD player and a Sony minidisc recorder. Amplification is some top of the range Denon with Dolby Digital, THX and 7 channel capability. Speakers are Snell - a centre under the tv and 6 in wall speakers - 2 at the front, 2 and the side and 2 at the rear. There was some BFO subwoofer but I didn't notice what it was. The TV is on a glass quadraspire (which looks much better than the wooden ones) and another QS rack is used for the kit. All the cabling is built in, either under the floor or in the walls. All in, including the tv and the building work this lot has cost something like 15-20K.

With movies it's superb, lot of drama, effortlessly loud and with massive bass. With music it's impressive (and I can see why he likes it) but very, very coloured. The bass is deep but a tad slow and his system (in stereo or multi-channel) would be slaughtered for speed, poise and accuracy by mine with most types of music.

Impressive yes, Hi-Fi? Possibly not but I bet a lot of people would prefer his system to our more purist setups.

He hasn't heard my system yet but it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of it.

Most people in our office think his and my spend on hi-fi and AV kit is total madness though and are content with 21" tellies, mono video recorders and perhaps a little mini system for what they call music. I'll soon sort them though - I've got a spare AV system (Kenwood pro-logic amp, Arcam CD player and Mission speakers) that I'll be loaning out in an attempt to persuade them of what they're missing!

Regards
Steve

Posted on: 23 December 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Harrie Frericks:
Anyhow, I think we're still in the early stages of multichannel sound and in ten years we will probably be discussing the subtle points of surround sound in a way we're having discussions about stereo now.

Harrie,

sorry, this argument doesn't fly for me.

For the same money I can have 2xNBLs or 5xSBLs. They will be powered by 5x135s or 1x500.

Movies on stereo through good speakers is fine for me, perhaps because it came for free with what I already had.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 24 December 2001 by Allan Probin

Martin,

quote:
sorry, this argument doesn't fly for me. For the same money I can have 2xNBLs or 5xSBLs

Forty years ago, somebody was probably saying something like "Sorry, this (stereo) argument doesn't fly for me, for the same money I can have 1xNBL or 2xSBLs"

Allan

Posted on: 24 December 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Allan Probin:
Forty years ago, somebody was probably saying something like "Sorry, this (stereo) argument doesn't fly for me, for the same money I can have 1xNBL or 2xSBLs"

Well I've not heard a lot of five-channel stuff, but what I've heard so far doesn't do anything for me.

I hate almost all music on video - the attention-span-of-a-gnat camera work really gets my goat.

If you turn the pictures off, and honestly evaluate only the sound quality, is it really better than your stereo-only setup, or do the extra channels only distract?

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 26 December 2001 by bdnyc

I can certainly see why some, maybe many of us that have heard excellent two channel systems would prefer to not divide our resources between multiple speakers, amps for them, and all of the associated hardware. That is most likely to be my long term situation if it soley came down to my musical pleasure. What I find so compelling about DVD's is not directly related to how good they sound or look. They do look good, many of them anyway, as for sound, they come nowhere near my CD player, much less those in the uppermost tiers of performance. While it seems strange, it doesn't seem to bother me at all, and in fact I am using the DVD player quite a bit.

What I was hoping to toss out for other's to comment on is that I have been really enjoying video through my system, and I've concluded that this might be related to adding functions that help us get more use, and pleasure, from our systems. Due to the fact that I love live concert material, I do have some of the same material that was mastered for CD use, and DVD is, at least on my Arcam, nowhere near the quality, speed, transparency, coherence of my CDX. Even so, it is a great addition to have the DVD into the stereo.

I suspect that full surround systems will be harder for many to position in their rooms, and it will certainly raise the price of a similarly high quality system considerably, but I am curious what others have found with DVD into stereos.

As for video's edited by, and presumably for folks with short attention spans, I agree that many are too choppy for my tastes, but it is cool to be able to see what the musicians are or were up to. As I get older, and it becomes harder to get to concerts, I suspect that being able to see a well produced DVD of a great show will come to seem very attractive. No substitute for the real thing, anymore than a live album would not equal being in an audience with the music or performance unfolding in your midst, but tempting for shows that you can't see, or want to revisit.

This has been sort of a guilty pleasure for me, and altough it doesn't really matter what one person is doing to the larger community of Naim users, I am finding that I am playing more DVD's at the moment than records on my much beloved, but now less frequently spinning LP 12. There was a time I could not even listen to CD's without pain, and now...

Posted on: 27 December 2001 by Manu

quote:
Originally posted by Harrie Frericks:
Wouldn't it be a shame having to sell you new AV2 in 2 years because it's decoding technology has become outdated, while it's preamp section is still Nait 5 class?
Harrie Frericks

The AV2 is software upgradable, has 6 channel analog input. I will be up-to-date for a long periode of time.

Emmanuel

Posted on: 02 January 2002 by Martin C

Hi BDNYC & allan,

I know a lot of audiophiles tried to ignore multi-channel audio, it's not a criticiism at all, just personal taste. I feel as long as someone enjoy it and the music is as close as the real thing. Who cares it's Stereo or multi-channel.

I am also quite interesting about the multi-channel audio, ie. SACD & DVD-A, it's still early stage, I did consider DVD-A player (Toshiba 900)
and the amps (to NAC82/2X250) before I upgraded from my active 3-series. At the end, I got a brand new CDSII instead. I thought it would be great on Stereo and I will integrate to AV (multi-channel audio), with Denon AV3802/Proac CC one centre/Intro as rear/REL Strata III, with CDSII as the source, it would be amazing for audio replay. Pro-logic II will provide the surround effect.

I have demo'd it as a AV system (only with a Sony DVD [player) before as above without the CDSII, it's good, can't imagine if CDSII as the source, that's the way to go for me.

cheers
Martin

Posted on: 02 January 2002 by Allan Probin

Martin,

Instead of the Denon 3802 have you thought about keeping your 3-series kit and buying a multi-channel processor like the Yamaha DSP-E800 with built-in amps for centre and surround. Or what about switching altogether from the 3-series to the 5 series and go for something like the AV2, NAP150 and NAP175. The AV2 will act as a regular pre-amp for your 2-channel sources plus decode multi-channel audio for movies and audio-only disks.

Allan

Posted on: 03 January 2002 by Martin C

Hi Allan,

I did think about Yamaha DSP-E800 before with NAC82/Hi-Cap/NAP250/SBL, it's cheap too, Less than GBP 300.- now. Isn't it better to use my
better system for the AV as well as Audio, unless there is some downside effect on the music? Maybe sonically? I don't know.

I already trade-in my 3-series, but I can get the NAPC92R/NAP90/3 back without a problem, altogether with Yamaha DSP-E800, it would be a good option if I want to separate the Av and Hi-Fi, but unfortuanately me & my wife also like modern living, to have a big living room and open plan kitchen. I will have a thought on that, but the AV system and multi-channel audio (especially with CDSII as the source), would sound as good as original intended.

cheers
Martin

Posted on: 21 January 2002 by Martin C

Hi Allan,

I thought about your suggestion again, now I decided to keep my NAP90/3 (centre) & but a new NAP90/3 (rear) to power the Roskan Caspian DSP AV processor, which they offer me only GBP 100.-, it's not what you think, it's brand new and it's the last one in stock, they basically just want to get rid of it, it supposed to be a staff price, as I am the usual customer there and spent considerable amount of money with him. It originally costs GBP 1200 and still curretnly available.

I am pretty happy with it, so I spent similar of money on this package as Denon AV-3802.

cheers
Martin