The Death of J***

Mike,

Strikes me that there is a lot of good jazz around at the moment that is pretty fresh. I have recently seen a number of ECM artists including The Marcin Wasilewski Trio, Nik Bartsch and Tomasz Stanko. I have also bought pretty much the whole of EST's catalogue. You could argue that as stablemates on the same label, they follow a certain school of playing or style, but it sounds good to me.

I am sorry to hear that your old discs are not exciting you any longer, I cannot say the same, as I still get a kick out of mine.

The first two bands above, I knew nothing about before I went to see them, but I find a live gig is a very good way of getting into what the artist is trying to achieve, in a way that the studio version sometimes finds it hard to capture.

Are you trying to over analyse the music, rather than just enjoying it? Ignorance of the mechanics of music making is probably bliss in my case, which is why a live performance helps me. Perhaps a few more live gigs will get your juices flowing.

Regards

Nic

Wot Nic said. American jazz has been stuck in a rut for years with little new innovation IMHO. The old stuff is classic of course but if you want to try new stuff, then my advice is look to Europe.

Try some ECM - happy to give you some recommendations and listen to the band E.S.T. and see if you like it.

I think Lontano has summed it up, but I'd've thought, given your prediliction to take a structured approach to listening Mike, there's hours of fun to be had in Ayler, Coleman, Dorhan, Parker etc etc. 20th C jazz - a true pioneering phase in the development of the worlds musical estate. Fun on many levels.

Mike, have U treated yourself to a real life session.

Jazz only works for me live ....
I don't rate modern on record, but a less than capable (but good) local band trying to emulate Bird stuff gets me going.
I have a lot of stuff recorded at Ronnie Scott's, even stuff I was at when it was recorded, and I would happily go to the club every nite, but I get bored with one side of a record.
The missus went every week to a local Jazz Nite while I was away travelling the planet. Jamie Cullam played a few times, she got his first CD - "Pointless Nostalgic" - not for me I thought, then I went to a gig and was blown away, but still don't jive with his records.

But I do play for pleasure a lot of records from the jazz fusion fringes, 4-Play, Yellow Jackets, Stanley Clark, Lou Rawls, etc. Avid Jazz aficionado's will kill for that admission, but I guess its all about what your personal vibe is at.

So I guess I could be in the same place as U. Bored with the mainstream recorded stuff, but can relate to real musicians.

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:
Mike,

Strikes me that there is a lot of good jazz around at the moment that is pretty fresh. I have recently seen a number of ECM artists including The Marcin Wasilewski Trio, Nik Bartsch and Tomasz Stanko. I have also bought pretty much the whole of EST's catalogue. You could argue that as stablemates on the same label, they follow a certain school of playing or style, but it sounds good to me.

I am sorry to hear that your old discs are not exciting you any longer, I cannot say the same, as I still get a kick out of mine.

The first two bands above, I knew nothing about before I went to see them, but I find a live gig is a very good way of getting into what the artist is trying to achieve, in a way that the studio version sometimes finds it hard to capture.

Are you trying to over analyse the music, rather than just enjoying it? Ignorance of the mechanics of music making is probably bliss in my case, which is why a live performance helps me. Perhaps a few more live gigs will get your juices flowing.

Regards

Nic

You hit the nail on the head with live performances. The jazz groups I can see live in town seem stuck in the seventies. The New Orleans R & B groups are still carving out new territory.

Don't know how to fix that one :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
Wot Nic said. American jazz has been stuck in a rut for years with little new innovation IMHO. The old stuff is classic of course but if you want to try new stuff, then my advice is look to Europe.

Try some ECM - happy to give you some recommendations and listen to the band E.S.T. and see if you like it.

I'm trying some ECM and E.S.T. on a whim. I'm going to go straight to Amazon to see what I can find, after a search on YouTube.

Mike, how do you square your love of classical in this context? A lot of jazz is rooted in the past, but there must be more 'creativity' in jazz at the moment than classical...I would have thought?

I can still hear orignial creative stuff on ECM, but I struggle to find much 'fresh' classical work.

quote:

Originally posted by Mat Cork:
I think Lontano has summed it up, but I'd've thought, given your prediliction to take a structured approach to listening Mike, there's hours of fun to be had in Ayler, Coleman, Dorhan, Parker etc etc. 20th C jazz - a true pioneering phase in the development of the worlds musical estate. Fun on many levels.

Ayler is new to me, as is Dorhan, so I'm going hunting for them. As for Coleman and Parker, I think I'm just shy of being able to write out charts for most (or at least many) of what they did. Charlie Parker is someone I think I can always predict the next note, on a tune I've never heard before.

quote:

Originally posted by Mat Cork:
Mike, how do you square your love of classical in this context? A lot of jazz is rooted in the past, but there must be more 'creativity' in jazz at the moment than classical...I would have thought?

I can still hear orignial creative stuff on ECM, but I struggle to find much 'fresh' classical work.

The classical is someone ironing out their feelings on one specific musical group of thoughts. Sometimes the feeling has such a reach that it brings a seemingly endless variety of musical feeling into it's grasp, and even after 100 listens you still find new things to listen to. It seems to change with your mood from day to day.

For me, jazz is much more specific. You are drawn into a single moment with white hot intensity, but it diminishes with each listen.

As others have said here, jazz is like raw oysters, best consumed fresh. Before Katrina ran all the jazz musicians off, I could get a fix anytime I liked. But these days results from live venues are frequently disappointing.

This deeply disturbs me.

Thank God, the New Orleans music scene is still vital and constantly reinvigorating itself.

I have to say this again Mat, my goal is to appreciate all music.

You helped me out with folk music, which I approach as very personal poetry set to music, for which I am grateful. But the prospect of losing a whole category (jazz) after four decades of pleasure is distressing. I can't just let it go.

Have a pop at these Mike...they all still sound fresh and alive to me now. As does Love Supreme...still raises the hairs.

Thanks Mat, I just ordered all three of these.

I am going to see how they go with my wife and a rum and coke :-)

I want to say something more about loving classical, jazz, New Orleans R & B and folk.

No one has a problem accepting that there are different kinds of books. For myself, I love Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five", which I read as an impassioned improvisation on an exceedingly troublesome memory, between two friends and over drinks and cigarettes, but I also love Thomas Hardy's "Tryst at and Ancient Ironworks", which you can find at the Gutenberg collection online, in a collection of short stories.

When I am in the mood, that Hardy story can fling me back over 300 years, and get me wet if it rains in the story. In the Hardy, I am transformed into a new and alien persona, and I feel as they feel. This is how the dead speak to the living. Think of it as a willing suspension of disbelief, or better yet, empathy for a person you just met :-)

The Vonnegut is like jazz, the Hardy like Bach or Beethoven.

Loving both expands my soul.

somebody means the jazz died with Django...Im not to shure. Somebody says the jazz became atonal after the 2.world war...

Mike

As others have already pointed out, you should look to Europe before declaring jazz dead. My impression of the US jazz scene is that it gravitates towards the two increasingly sterile poles of neo-classicism (a la Marsalis brothers) and avant-garde excess. European jazz is less bound by either tradition, and there seems to be a constant striving to integrate new elements into the sound, or to reconfigure existing influences in novel ways. ECM is a great label, but don't expect much of it to "swing". Likewise, with the ACT and CamJazz labels.

If you fancy trying something challenging, I recommend Michael Wollny's [em]3 album. For white hot intensity, try to see French clarinettist Louis Sclavis live, or simply check out any of his albums on ECM. Then there's Edward Versala, whose "Ode to the Death of Jazz" album is a stormer, and the great elder statesman of Polish jazz, Tomasz Stanko (anything by him is worth hearing). From England there's world clss pianist John Taylor, and the new kid on the block Gwilymn Simcock, whose ambitious double CD "Blues Vignettes" is out any day now.

There is so much fantastic stuff out there Mike, I urge you to go exploring. I'm excited just typing this!

Good Luck
Nigel

Mike

My very favourite new jazz album of 2009 is 'The Outstanding Eyes of Rita' by Anouar Brahem on ECM, which I think is truly wonderful. And my favourite jazz album of all time is Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section, from way back before I was born; 1957. I commend them both to you.

Nigel

The Art Pepper album is one of my all time high. That album got it all. It kind of summen up the 55-65 jazz period. Alongside with the genius Miles Davis.

Following Btl's post, there is some fine jazz coming from Norway. Tord Gustavsen's latest is very good, as are all his previous albums.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
Mike

My very favourite new jazz album of 2009 is 'The Outstanding Eyes of Rita' by Anouar Brahem on ECM, which I think is truly wonderful. ....Nigel

Crikey, someone else has that! Good to know ECM sold two copies!

I can recommend The Road to St Ives and Coruscating by John Surman.

Try Get Up With It by Miles Davis. It's a brilliant record in my opinion....but its not easy listening.

quote:

Originally posted by Martin M:

Try Get Up With It by Miles Davis. It's a brilliant record in my opinion....but its not easy listening.

In what way ?

quote:

I can recommend The Road to St Ives and Coruscating by John Surman.

I hope they are better than Brewster's Rooster, which was so bad I sent it back. That said, his album with Howard Moody, 'Rain on the Window' is excellent, despite the unpromising combination of sax and organ. 'The Spaces in Between', with string quartet, is very good too.

On the Brahem theme, 'Thimar' is superb.

Nigel

quote:

I think you will find Adrian has a copy

That's three copies then!

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
despite the unpromising combination of sax and organ.

One of my favorite albums is Johnny Adams "One Foot in the Blues", featuring Dr. Lonnie Smith on a Hammond B3 Organ and Ed Peterson on tenor sax (if memory serves :-)).

It is very sweet when the tenor sax and organ explore the lower octaves together ...

Well, Mike, there's one for you to try. It really is very good. John Surman plays baritone and soprano sax, as well as bass clarinet, and is further distinguished by the fact that he went to school with our very own Geoff P.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by Martin M:

Try Get Up With It by Miles Davis. It's a brilliant record in my opinion....but its not easy listening.

In what way ?

It's at the extreme end of Miles 'Jazz-Rock' idiom. So sounds nothing like his 50s and 60s output. Pangaea, Agahtha and Dark Magus are the closest sounding albums.

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:

quote:

I can recommend The Road to St Ives and Coruscating by John Surman.

I hope they are better than Brewster's Rooster, which was so bad I sent it back. That said, his album with Howard Moody, 'Rain on the Window' is excellent, despite the unpromising combination of sax and organ. 'The Spaces in Between', with string quartet, is very good too.

Nigel

Er, yes, I just had a listen to this at the Amazon website. Smoooth. Luckily, the other albums are nothing like it. Coruscating is closer to The Spaces inbetween. I haven't a clue what Road to St ives sounds like, other than good.