cd5 v cdx demo- A test of the "you need a cdx theory"!

Posted by: bec143 on 23 October 2002

I mentioned this briefly in a recent thread and was asked to expand it a bit. With the spate of CHEAP cdx's to be had currently, I decided to see if it was time to trade in my cd5 for a cdx. So I went to see my friends at Hawthorne, who kindly hooked up a cd5 and cdx to a 52/500/allaes (see my past thread for how great the Allaes sounded btw). Both the cd5 and the cdx were heard without their corresponding power supplies. The electronics were chosen to fully reveal the source components.

Now this was a relatively short demo, and I picked two very different cds. The first was Alison Krause New Favorite, which sounds great on most systems. The second was Mingus Ah Um, which ranges from superb to horrible, and reallyc challenges many systems.

Now, both the cd and the cdx sounded terrific on both cds, what a great combo the 52/500 comprises! To my ears, although there were differences between the two cd players, they sounded much more alike than dissimilar. The cdx did have a bit more detail, particulalry in the midrange, but you really had to listen HARD to find it. The bass was quite similar with reagrds to both range and quality. The cdx may have been a bit more exciting on the Mingus, but again I think that if I was blinded to the players I would have had a hard time picking which was which.

Now I realize that the cdx will sound much better with an XPS, but so will the cd5 with either a hicap or FC.

My conclusion was that I did not think the cdx was enough of an upgrade to warrant its cost. It also showed me just how great a cd5 can sound. Furthermore, it really puts the "You need a CDX" knee-jerk response in some perspective for me. All too often someone is told here that the electronics were not good enough to reveal the superiority of the source, This obviously can't be the case here, since the 52/500 should be adequate. It was on a FRAIM btw.

Ultimately I think that it comes down to a matter of personal choice. Moreover, seeing what a PSU does to my cd5, I don't doubt that an XPS may change things. But anyone thinking of changing to a cd5 should do the demo. I bet the differences between the two may be even less apparant on more affordable electronics

Bruce.

Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Steve B

I hope you're listening Nuno.

Steve B

Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Matthew T

I listened to the CD5 without FC, couldn't get on with it. With FC, significant improvement, CDX again improvement. I could really hear the differences when listening to classical music. This wasthrough a 102/180 system.

Just my findings

Matthew

Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Bob Shedlock

I would simply add that the one goes further up the line in audio, the smaller the differences get, and the LARGER the cost of those small differences. Those "smaller differences" can be hard won from a design standpoint, ie. expensive. The old diminishing returns bit. Still, in a maxed out system, small differences can be very significant to some people.
I've never heard a CDX, but I reside happily with a CD5/hi cap. Not inclined to spend more money to spin silver discs, but seriously looking at upgrading my analog ---

Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Mike Sae

I understand where you're coming from, as I also did the CD5 vs. CDX dem.
On the surface, they have more in common than the price suggests.
However, the CDX is better at delinating the phrasing, tune, lyricism or whatever you want to call it.
I didn't really recognize it 'till I got the CDX home.

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by seagull

I agree with bec143's findings. (See my Odd couple thread for details) but direct comparison between CD5 and CDX through 82/dual hi-cap/180 and SBLs (not my system unfortunately) tended to show how good the CD5 actually is. I guess that if I was looking for a CDP to buy and had the money I would choose the CDX but as I own a CD5 I wouldn't change it now.

Next time we'll try using one of the hi-caps on the CD5 to see what effect that has.

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by herm

quote:
Originally posted by seagull:
Next time we'll try using one of the hi-caps on the CD5 to see what effect that has.

The effect, obviously, is very good. If you compare a naked CDX with a Hi-Capped CD5, you'll still notice you get a little more data with the CDX. However, the pleasure factor is very high with the HCd CD5.

Herman

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Jay

I can't agree - buts thats OK remember

The CD5 is a great CD player, no doubt about it. But the CDX is the much better player to my ears and my dollars....thems the choice, is the $$ worth the improvement, for me yes, for you maybe no.

Nuno will be buying his CD5 in time for Xmas.

Jay

Yabba, dabba, doooooo

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Lightkeeper

bec143 !

You said that cdx is not so much better than cd5 and that both players work so much better with some ps. Is that mean that cd5 with fc2 or hcap is better than cdx alone to you?
I've seen from your profile that you have fcap and hcap in your system. Can you tell me honesty, is it so much better sound between cd5/hcap, than cd5/fcap (did you have a fcap 1 or 2)? Is it bigger difference between cd5 alone and cd5/fcap, or between cd5/fcap and cd5/hcap?
I will apreciate your comments, because I plan to buy one of that ps.

Ozren

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Mr_Sukebe

I had a dem of a CD5 vs CDX just two weeks ago.

Overall the two players exhibited exactly the same style or sonic signature, it's just that the CDX does everything slighty better.

Personally I want a CD5 to get that "style" as it doesn't exist in other manufacturers. At present I don't think I could justify the cost of the additional improvements.

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Rana Ali

I recently bought an old Hi-Cap for a small amount of money (UKP 275) and added it to my CD5. The improvement is large*. Get a power supply if you can. It makes my CDs much more musical, 3-dimensional, and problem CDs are much less tiring. Even CDs which I thought were badly recorded sounded good!

Rana

(*listening through active Tukans)

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by greeny

A few months ago I upgraded from CD3 to CDX then CDX/XPS. I always find demo's a bit dificult, is there a difference? (usually yes), but is it better or just different? and is than differance worth the money?

I was simply not enjoying listening to CDs for any prolonged period of time. In direct comparison to CD3 the CDX sounded slightly better but how much? It is in prolonged listening that you realise that you are just being drawn into the music more, the differences whilst not imediately obvious are pretty fundamental.

I now listen to CD more than LP and enjoy it immensly, before it just could not compete.

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by bec143

I hope my point wasn't taken to be the CDX isn't good; it was rather how great both players sounded. I too heard the differences between the cdx and cd5. During a demo they were subtle, but I don't doubt that over extended listening they might become more apparent. However, even when set up superbly, the difference between the two players requires careful listening, ratrher then knocks you over.

Ozren, I have posted on th psu/cd5 situation in my setup before. Briefly, I foun dthe Hicap to be very superioe t the flatcap on my 112, but the difference between the psus was much harder to detect on the cd5, and both sounded much better than the bare cd5. Hope this helps.

Bruce

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Greg Beatty

...thanx for the thread mate.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Rockingdoc

I think it is difficult for most of us here to remove the baggage of information and cost from our minds when auditioning. I always try to take my wife because she has good ears and absolutely no interest in the hardware. She also is kept in the dark about the cost (purely for research purposes , of course). If she doesn't hear much improvement with an "upgrade", I reckon it probably isn't there.
malcolm

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Steve Toy

When first heard the CDX in my system, it actually sounded worse than my CD5/Flatcap2 combo.

I then changed the stands from Optimum Prestige to QS Ref. The CDX reads what it sits on, with its hard feet, and no suspension.

The CD5, otoh, is more forgiving of inadequate equipment support.

Once you have a decent stand, there is a HUGE difference between the two players, and the comparison is a no-brainer.

I thnk this issue may have been addressed with the new CDX2.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by bec143

I gather that the cdx is very support sensitive. I had assumed that the Fraim I had heard it own would have been suffcient to rule out a major support factor, but maybe not?

Once again, I thought the cdx sounded superb in the demo.

Bruce

Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Steve Toy

The Fraim is obviously a good support!

For ages I kidded myself that the CD5 was almost as good, until I finally got my CDX.

Now, when I hear the CD5 fronting midrange Naim amps, I find it to be seriously lacking in pr&t, depth, authority, emotion, and dynamics in comparison.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

Posted on: 25 October 2002 by Steve Toy

Now that the CDX is an "obsolete" player, the CD5 suddenly betters it because it's not yet obsolete.

I can't be bothered to find it, but I posted on the forum back in December of last year. The thread was entitled CDX chez Toy. I was a very happy bunny indeed back then, and I'd just blown £2400 on a CD player (minus the £1100 I got for my old one which is still a current model... confused

)

quote:
it makes me wonder if you ever owned one in the first place.

Note that I used the words, "in comparison..."

Yup, I bought my CD5 back in September 2000 - it was one of the very first to be made.

I added the Flatcap 2 in December of the same year, just before I joined this forum.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on SATURDAY 26 October 2002 at 04:46.]