"What about Obama?"

Fred

As an Englishman I wish Obama well. The World needs a return to Democratic politics but with a modern liberal edge and Obama seems to have that. It is an exciting time.

A young fresh intelligent liberal vs an aged anti abortionist - Surely its a no brainer.

What do you think of his choice of running mate?

Thought this was interesting - not sure if the player will work in the US. Obama exhibition

Regards

Diccus

You would think it would be a no brainer Diccus, but do not underestimate how Rove-like the Republicans will be and how they will try to scare the public into believing that a vote for Obama is a vote for the terrorists. Welcome to American politics where there is a good chance that many of your friends and neighbors will buy that crap.

Chaps

Am I alone in thinking that American political party conventions are now becoming akin to a school childs party. Lots of balloons, fireworks and politicians spouting totally meaningless drivel.

Obama just spouted platitude after platitude and you have to be a 12 year old virgin to swallow that rubbish.

Palin was just as bad, where do they dig this lot up from. Where is the politics and policies rather than the " I have a dream" crap which anyone can spout.

American politics is getting seriously dumb.

Regards

Mick

Dear Mick,

You are not the only one to think this. There is one more, here, thinking along the same lines ...

All I want is to avoid WW III.

ATB from George

Yeah, well what about British politics. It's so easy to be cynical about the US system but is it any better here now? Think PMQ's sets an example to the world? The banality and the stupitity of British party conferences has to be seen to believed nowadays and I've covered enough of them in the last few years.

Obama may be mutton dressed up as lamb(we will see)but at least the Americans have got nearer to getting a black person to the summit of the political system- which is more than can be said for this country.

This country - which elected the ultimate PR machine in La Blair needs to look at itself a bit more before it starts laughing at the Americans.

Dear Andrew,

This is entirely true, as well, IMO.

The trouble is that people are fixated on the promise, and when the unreasonable promise is not followed through the electorate gets cynical. This leads to ta subsequent dumbing down in a desperate attempt to curry favour. You are completely right the we Brits, living in a glass house, should not nreally be startin g a stone throwing mattch!

ATB from George

Cameron, anybody, or Clegg? I would have had Davis for Tory leader, but instead we have a PR man. Shame indeed. More Brown then? I hope not, but then I suspect the next election will see an administration elected for one term only in any case ...

Well, my dear George, you will NOT be getting Nick Clegg as the next man at No.10. It will be Cameron or Brown or whoever is in charge of the Labour Party at the time. And I doubt whether it will make a jot of difference.

Want to know how low politics has sunk in this country ? We now have a Mayor of London whose claim to fame is getting his leg over one too many times and being a jolly good sort on a well known TV show. That's all you need to succeed now folks. Yippee!

I, too, voted for Obama in 2004 in the primary and in the general election, and I voted for him in the primary this year. I also recommended to a New Hampshire friend that he consider signing on to the Obama campaign, and he did.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Obama is the best choice we have by far.

That's a lot different from being sure he'll be a good president, and I'd bet a lot that he won't look like a great president, because the current administration has shackled any successor.

We need to implement universal health insurance, but the money isn't there. We need to enalrge and re-equip our army, probably by reinstituting the draft, but neither the willingness to serve nor the money is there. We need to stop using mercenaries, but they're entrenched. We need to improve business and legal morality, but the will isn't there. We need to improve education and training, but neither the will nor the money is there. We need to cut our use of oil without forcing our offices and factories to close, but we lack the will. We need to rebuild alliances, respond to Russia imperialism, respond to Chinese imperialism, blunt the force of religious fundamentalism everywhere. We ned to prevent another Great Depression while we're solving these other problems. Etc., etc., etc.

How many of these problems will Obama solve? I know his medical insurance plan isn't good enough....

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Barry:
I, too, voted for Obama in 2004 in the primary and in the general election, and I voted for him in the primary this year. I also recommended to a New Hampshire friend that he consider signing on to the Obama campaign, and he did.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Obama is the best choice we have by far.

That's a lot different from being sure he'll be a good president, and I'd bet a lot that he won't look like a great president, because the current administration has shackled any successor.

We need to implement universal health insurance, but the money isn't there. We need to enalrge and re-equip our army, probably by reinstituting the draft, but neither the willingness to serve nor the money is there. We need to stop using mercenaries, but they're entrenched. We need to improve business and legal morality, but the will isn't there. We need to improve education and training, but neither the will nor the money is there. We need to cut our use of oil without forcing our offices and factories to close, but we lack the will. We need to rebuild alliances, respond to Russia imperialism, respond to Chinese imperialism, blunt the force of religious fundamentalism everywhere. We ned to prevent another Great Depression while we're solving these other problems. Etc., etc., etc.

How many of these problems will Obama solve? I know his medical insurance plan isn't good enough....

Phil

What about American imperialism?

Dear Adrew,

That is okay [well for the citizens of the US anyway] because the US is top nation. When Britain was top nation it was all fine and good for the Brits to have an Empire. I suspect soon that we and the US are soon going to have to get used to Chinese Imperialism again.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Adrew,

That is okay [well for the citizens of the US anyway] because the US is top nation. When Britain was top nation it was all fine and good for the Brits to have an Empire. I suspect soon that we and the US are soon going to have to get used to Chinese Imperialism again.

ATB from George

Hi George,

Well at least it will make a change from American, Russian(Soviet) and yes British imperialism.

The trouble with the west is that it sees everyone else having imperialist aims , except itself. How do you the think the Russians feel about plans to park loads of NATO missiles on their doorstep? Wonder how the Americans would feel if the Russians plonked theirs on the Mexican border....

Dear Andrew,

We know what the US thought of it under JFK: Cuba crisis.

Mind you the poor Poles have faced centuries of Russian and then Soviet Imperialism [as well as German and Swedish], so perhaps they actually welcome the chance to put something of a marker in the ground as well.

I am not saying it is right, but it is for the Poles [and Czechs] to allow this or not, and not really us in the UK, though it is reasonable enough for us and the Russians to have a view, of course, but from what I undertand, the Polish view of Russia is rather less positive than even, just after 1945, was the British view of Germany. The Polish view was bred through centuries, and not just about thirty years.

The Poles have reason to fear I think. As do the Fins and Scandinavians ... The Russian menace is begining to flex its muscles again. And this is not to say that I think the Georgian Government has been right. It merely responded to what it thought was support from the US [right wing element]. No doubt they learned something about the real interests of the US [right wing] which was merely to start a row that would provoke Russia. The trouble is that an angry bear does not stop being angry immediately the baiting stops, and gets blood hungry. I think it will be good when US foreign policy stops making bad situations worse, and the governement of that country concentrates more on the home front. Indeed I would welcome the re-appearance of US isolationism.

ATB from George

PS: Apologies for the typos. I hope I caught them all. My eyes are worser than usual tonight ...

It's ironic that some in this thread are dismissing Obama's acceptance speech as rhetoric devoid of substance. It makes me wonder if they actually heard or read his speech? In fact, widespread consensus has been that this speech had far less of the inspirational flourishes and much more meat and potatoes substance because 40,000,000 people were watching and wanted to know what he would do as president.

Here is just some of what he said:


"Let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am president:

• I will stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America
  
  
• I'll eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow
  
  
• I will cut taxes for 95 percent of all working families
  
  
• And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as president: In 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East [by setting] higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, [encouraging] investments in renewable energy and developing] renewable fuels
  
  
• I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America
  
  
• I'll invest $150 billion over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy -- wind power, and solar power, and the next generation of biofuels -- an investment that will lead to new industries and 5 million new jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced
  
  
• Now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy
  
  
• I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries, and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability
  
  
• If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves
  
  
• I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most
  
  
• Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their job and caring for a sick child or an ailing parent
  
  
• Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses, and the time to protect Social Security for future generations
  
  
• And now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work, because I want my daughters to have the exact same opportunities as your sons
  
  
• Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime: by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less, because we cannot meet 21st-century challenges with a 20th-century bureaucracy
  
  
• As commander-in-chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.
  
  
• I will end this war in Iraq responsibly and finish the fight against Al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan. I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts, but I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression.
  
  
• I will build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation, poverty and genocide, climate change and disease."

Platitudes?

By the way, I feel sorry for anyone who describes "I have a dream" as "crap" ... a human without dreams, hope, and inspiration is a human with a serious humanity deficit.

All best,
Fred

I so wish I had someone else to vote for. I think McCain is a cranky old guy with a temper, too quick on the trigger; Obama the reverse - a rather green man who will be eaten alive in any dealings he has with the Iranians or Russians. Frighteningly naive.

A bad choice between too hot and too cold; the Repubs have moved too far towards corporatist allegiance, the Dems have moved waaay over to the Left. The best I can hope for is divided government; this is the Dems' year, we'll probably get Obama. Maybe the R's can take the House back in 2010; gridlock is our friend.

I do like Sarah Palin, though; kinda sexy with those glasses, reminds me somehow of "Hot For Teacher" by Van Halen. I'd rather look at her for four years than at Joe "Gaffer" Biden for any time whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by bhazen:
. . . . I do like Sarah Palin, though; kinda sexy with those glasses, reminds me somehow of "Hot For Teacher" by Van Halen. I'd rather look at her for four years than at Joe "Gaffer" Biden for any time whatsoever.

And thus spake the electorate.

Fred

Obama said

I will stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America


I'll eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow


I will cut taxes for 95 percent of all working families


And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as president: In 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East [by setting] higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, [encouraging] investments in renewable energy and developing] renewable fuels


I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America


I'll invest $150 billion over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy -- wind power, and solar power, and the next generation of biofuels -- an investment that will lead to new industries and 5 million new jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced


Now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy


I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries, and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability


If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves


I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most


Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their job and caring for a sick child or an ailing parent


Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses, and the time to protect Social Security for future generations


And now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work, because I want my daughters to have the exact same opportunities as your sons


Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime: by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less, because we cannot meet 21st-century challenges with a 20th-century bureaucracy


As commander-in-chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.


I will end this war in Iraq responsibly and finish the fight against Al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan. I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts, but I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression.


I will build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation, poverty and genocide, climate change and disease."

Fred that is platitude after platitude which was sooooooooooo easy to say.

Now try asking how he is going to achieve those things and preferably in detail with costings.

Regards

Mick

Obama's speech sounded as if it was scripted by Aaron Sorkin for Josh Lyman to say in the "West Wing".

quote:

Now try asking how he is going to achieve those things and preferably in detail with costings.

Like ALL polititians will.
At least he won't have anything to sell to give tax cuts to the rich.

I'm with you Mick!
I find Obama's notion that we as a society could possably improve a bit, well .....fruity. You are quite right dear Mick. Abandon all hope, why make an effort, this is as good as it gets, we should all hunker down and take what we are given. I'm sure all of the great civilizations got that way by taking the everything sucks, why bother point of view! Why try, we might fail.Ho hum.
DCT

Chaps

The Obama dream is dead because the creep showed what lies beneath the veneer with his comments about lipstick on a pig.

No one can trust the running of a country to someone who displays such a stupid lack of judgement.

He killed the dream today.

Regards

Mick

Mick,

Obama is way too liberal to win a presidential election in the United States. McCain's brilliant VP pick has sunk the Dems.

Regards,
John

Don't bother looking for public office Mick with that criterion.