"What about Obama?"
Posted by: fred simon on 28 August 2008
"What about Obama?"
That's what my friend said to me in Spring 2004 when he asked who I was supporting in that year's senatorial primary race. Ironically, at that time my brother-in-law worked for a woman who had thrown her hat in the ring as a contender for the Democratic candidacy for senator. She seemed OK to me, not extraordinary, but fine. So I mentioned her name in answer to my friend's question. His reply: "What about Obama?"
Indeed. When he gave his outstanding key note address at that summer's Democratic National Convention, I thought "That's the person who should be president of the USA. I was deeply moved and inspired, and at that moment I felt like he was my president.
Of course, that was long before he announced his own presidential candidacy, but not that long before others were urging it. Here was someone with a bright and progressive world view, with a history of serving others, especially the neediest among us, and a legacy of bringing disparate viewpoints together to reach common ground. Extremely intelligent, self-aware and self-examining, well-educated, charismatic, a natural leader.
Tonight he will address 75,000 people (and millions more watching on TV) in an open air stadium, moved from the official indoor convention venue as a symbolic gesture, and it promises to be the speech of his life so far. His senior campaign strategist said that "Obama will lay out a case for sweeping political change and illustrate the choice voters face between his candidacy and that of Republican John McCain ... His goal is to talk to the American people about the challenges we face and what we need to do to solve them, and the stakes of continuing to do what we are doing."
Much has been made of his oratory, which is magnificent. But some complain that "it's only words." Well, there are words, and then there are words. Words mean something, words are important, words are the vehicle with which we carry intent, character, emotion, ideas, and vision. Without a doubt, deeds must follow words, and if Obama becomes president it remains to be seen what his deeds will be. But based on his past deeds, based on the character and content of his words, it's a good bet that good deeds will follow his good words.
Finally, the official nomination of an African-American as the candidate of a major political party for the presidency of the United States of America is nothing short of a sea change, a monumental leap forward in human consciousness. In my relatively short life time, African-Americans did not even have the legal right to vote, and now an African-American may become president. If that's not enough to instill hope in anyone, then nothing will.
I've never been prouder to be an American than at this moment.
Fred
Posted on: 11 September 2008 by Ewan Aye
I think what you are all failing to appreciate (or at least forgetting) is that at our end, in the audience as it were, we only see the final performance. We don't get to see the people behind that performance until we dig a little deeper and see what makes them tick, and find the reasons that they end up saying what they say. That's when we get cynical. They are politicians, and it's a game, and it's their job. You can deride all of them. The arguments here suggest that their candidate is fault-free, which is ridiculous. We need to get a little more pragmatic about this discussion.
I don't want to be overly down about this, but it helps to remember that running mates are chosen, and speeches are written only to advance popularity and acceptance in order to win the race. These are all career politicians at work, not nice cuddly members of the community that have been approached and urged to represent them, and reluctantly accept. No politician is Atticus Finch, although we'd love them to be.
McCain chose Palin to balance his religious views and win back support from the religious right wing - no other reason. Obama reveals glimpses of himself when he shoots his mouth off.
Unfortunately, both there in the US and over here in the UK, the only people we ever get running the country are politicians, and we have to select the best person for the job out of the candidates, and remember that it's all about the job, not the person. It isn't about flag waving, making history by being the first black president, or being the first woman president - that doesn't matter in the end. What matters is what they do in office.
Personally I think Obama is by far the best person put forward for selection, but I resist getting doe-eyed about it. In the end, what we learn about the outcome will be more about the American people than the politicians they elect. If Obama doesn't get in, the headlines will no-doubt be "Rascist America", and he knows that, and will use that too - make no mistake.
Politicians at this level are ruthless manipulators and egotistical megalomaniacs - they wouldn't reach here if they weren't. This is the election for the White House, not a beauty pageant. Don't underestimate who these people are beneath the veneer and acting. It's ridiculous to portray any of these people as knights in shining armour.
I'm as guilty as any, of course, because it scares the pants off me that anyone like Palin could get that close to power. She's clearly barking mad.
I don't want to be overly down about this, but it helps to remember that running mates are chosen, and speeches are written only to advance popularity and acceptance in order to win the race. These are all career politicians at work, not nice cuddly members of the community that have been approached and urged to represent them, and reluctantly accept. No politician is Atticus Finch, although we'd love them to be.
quote:Obama is way too liberal to win a presidential election in the United States. McCain's brilliant VP pick has sunk the Dems.
McCain chose Palin to balance his religious views and win back support from the religious right wing - no other reason. Obama reveals glimpses of himself when he shoots his mouth off.
Unfortunately, both there in the US and over here in the UK, the only people we ever get running the country are politicians, and we have to select the best person for the job out of the candidates, and remember that it's all about the job, not the person. It isn't about flag waving, making history by being the first black president, or being the first woman president - that doesn't matter in the end. What matters is what they do in office.
Personally I think Obama is by far the best person put forward for selection, but I resist getting doe-eyed about it. In the end, what we learn about the outcome will be more about the American people than the politicians they elect. If Obama doesn't get in, the headlines will no-doubt be "Rascist America", and he knows that, and will use that too - make no mistake.
Politicians at this level are ruthless manipulators and egotistical megalomaniacs - they wouldn't reach here if they weren't. This is the election for the White House, not a beauty pageant. Don't underestimate who these people are beneath the veneer and acting. It's ridiculous to portray any of these people as knights in shining armour.
I'm as guilty as any, of course, because it scares the pants off me that anyone like Palin could get that close to power. She's clearly barking mad.
Posted on: 11 September 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by Mick Parry:
The Obama dream is dead because the creep showed what lies beneath the veneer with his comments about lipstick on a pig.
Obama used the very common American aphorism "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig" referring not to Palin but to McCain's appropriation of the mantle of "Change." Just as surely McCain was not referring to Hillary Clinton when he used the very same aphorism (and more than once, all on video) in reference to her health care plan.
The idea that Obama was referring to Palin is ludicrous, and only betrays the Republicans' desperate attempts to distort the truth and sling mud at anything they can hit.
By the way, regarding McCain's positioning of himself as an agent of change, Garrison Keillor wrote this eloquent paragraph:
So the Republicans have decided to run against themselves. The bums have tiptoed out the back door and circled around to the front and started yelling, "Throw the bums out!" They've been running Washington like a well-oiled machine to the point of inviting lobbyists into the back rooms to write the legislation, and now they are anti-establishment reformers dedicated to delivering us from themselves.
Fred
Posted on: 11 September 2008 by John G.
Obama might not have been referring to Palin but using that worn out aphorism just days after the joke Palin used during the Republican convention(which was played over and over in the media for days) referring to the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull, being lipstick showed poor judgement on Barack's part. Seeing the crowd reaction during the pause while he was saying it should have given him warning that he was committing a big gaff. He should have said something right away but he just couldn't admit that it could have be taken the wrong way.
Posted on: 11 September 2008 by matt podniesinski
Is this what the campaign has devolved into. We have a Republican ticket which basically is not proposing anything different than what W been doing crying out about change. They do not present anything substantiative but run around bad mouthing the Dems and Obama. So rather than worrying about such trivialities as the economy, energy and foreign policy let's make an issue about whether or not Obama is name calling. Apparently it plays well in some quarters.
Regards
Matt
Regards
Matt
Posted on: 11 September 2008 by John G.
If you're interested in the issues, a good source is either candidates websites. The news media tend not to focus much on such things as it makes for boring television and news articles. I would guess that most of the American electorate already knows who they're voting for.
Posted on: 16 September 2008 by John M
quote:Originally posted by Mick Parry:
" I have a dream" crap which anyone can spout.
American politics is getting seriously dumb.
Regards
Mick
I usually lurk on the political stuff, but, wow, "I Have a Dream" = crap??? Really??!?!
Maybe the humble author meant that Obama and Palin are pale (no pun intended) comparisons to the great Dr. King Jr?
If anyone could/would "spout" those kind of sentiments on a more regular basis, I think we might all be a little better off.
Posted on: 17 September 2008 by 555
Posted on: 18 September 2008 by djftw
quote:Originally posted by John M:quote:Originally posted by Mick Parry:
" I have a dream" crap which anyone can spout.
American politics is getting seriously dumb.
Regards
Mick
I usually lurk on the political stuff, but, wow, "I Have a Dream" = crap??? Really??!?!
Maybe the humble author meant that Obama and Palin are pale (no pun intended) comparisons to the great Dr. King Jr?
If anyone could/would "spout" those kind of sentiments on a more regular basis, I think we might all be a little better off.
Personally I think it very disingenuous to use the words of Dr. King to try to promote yourself/your politics. King was speaking at a very different time, and to take his words out of context is to defile them in my opinion. I do not mean to suggest that much of what King said is not still relevant, but the words belong in his mouth not in Obama's. It's a bit like Blair or Bush quoting Churchill when talking about Iraq!
On the lighter side did anyone else see the McCain supporters with the sweatbands reading "Say NO to BO". Maybe I'm just immature, but I thought it was quite funny!
Posted on: 18 September 2008 by Harry B. Saunders
Mr. Saunders
"Nutter" you may be but I would appreciate it if, as a new member, you would be considerably less bonkers in your posts - until we have had time to get a handle on you.
"Nutter" you may be but I would appreciate it if, as a new member, you would be considerably less bonkers in your posts - until we have had time to get a handle on you.
Posted on: 18 September 2008 by John M
quote:Originally posted by djftw:quote:Originally posted by John M:quote:Originally posted by Mick Parry:
" I have a dream" crap which anyone can spout.
American politics is getting seriously dumb.
Regards
Mick
I usually lurk on the political stuff, but, wow, "I Have a Dream" = crap??? Really??!?!
Maybe the humble author meant that Obama and Palin are pale (no pun intended) comparisons to the great Dr. King Jr?
If anyone could/would "spout" those kind of sentiments on a more regular basis, I think we might all be a little better off.
Personally I think it very disingenuous to use the words of Dr. King to try to promote yourself/your politics. King was speaking at a very different time, and to take his words out of context is to defile them in my opinion. I do not mean to suggest that much of what King said is not still relevant, but the words belong in his mouth not in Obama's. It's a bit like Blair or Bush quoting Churchill when talking about Iraq!
On the lighter side did anyone else see the McCain supporters with the sweatbands reading "Say NO to BO". Maybe I'm just immature, but I thought it was quite funny!
I am not sure what/who you are responding to - but my point was just that I found the reference to Dr. King's sentiments as crap quite disagreeable or at least very lazy. I am not sure who took Dr. Kings words out of what context but I have not heard Obama referring to or inferring himself as the next Dr. King.
As you agreed, Dr. Kings message is still relevant. The message of strong but peaceful protest and the recognition and ultimate abandonment of race as the specious and dubious social classification system it really is, are very applicable today, vital. I am glad to have someone/anyone help us remember his words, because, sadly, he is not here to do it himself. Why not Obama? Hell why not all of us.
Posted on: 19 September 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by djftw:
Personally I think it very disingenuous to use the words of Dr. King to try to promote yourself/your politics. King was speaking at a very different time, and to take his words out of context is to defile them in my opinion. I do not mean to suggest that much of what King said is not still relevant, but the words belong in his mouth not in Obama's.
Not only has Obama never used King's words, he didn't even refer to King by name during his nomination acceptance speech, delivered on the anniversary of King's historic "I have a dream" speech.
Further, anyone who knows anything about MLK, Jr. knows that he would be first in line to support Obama, who is truly a living testament to MLK's dream.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 20 September 2008 by John M
Thanks for your post Fred. I was beginning to think I was alone out here.
Posted on: 20 September 2008 by John M
On a different note (not referring to any previous posters, and not baiting a fight herein,) At parties and gatherings, in casual discussion with detractors of Obama, I found that many are disenchanted with Obama because they feel he is "preaching" at them. When I ask for some specific examples, or times when he did not provide a strong political/policy context to his message, or when he had digressed into the spiritual realm inappropriately, I have never heard a robust example, or any reference in fact whatsoever. I usually get that they just don't like his tone, that it is condescending. It is my belief that many of these people to whom I have spoken are uncomfortable or maybe unfamiliar with an african american person of eloquence and intellectual soundness. I want to say "you need to get out more often", but what I really question is whether this isn't a manifestation of racism - a harmful (possibly subconscious) compartmentalization of african american personae into stereotypical roles (i.e preacher, athlete, musician, etc.) It is obvious to say that the ascendance of Obama is disturbing a lot of mental apple carts. IMHO In a racist mind, an articulate intelligent black man must = preacher, thereby dispelling irrational fear, and marginalizing or dismissing the message as coming from a spiritual, non or apolitical and irrelevent view point.
Posted on: 20 September 2008 by John G.
quote:Originally posted by John M:
I found that many are disenchanted with Obama because they feel he is "preaching" at them. When I ask for some specific examples, or times when he did not provide a strong political/policy context to his message, or when he had digressed into the spiritual realm inappropriately, I have never heard a robust example,
No doubt you've heard Obama's elitist comments he made while in San Francisco that has seriously damaged his campaign.
Posted on: 20 September 2008 by John M
quote:Originally posted by John G.:quote:Originally posted by John M:
I found that many are disenchanted with Obama because they feel he is "preaching" at them. When I ask for some specific examples, or times when he did not provide a strong political/policy context to his message, or when he had digressed into the spiritual realm inappropriately, I have never heard a robust example,
No doubt you've heard Obama's elitist comments he made while in San Francisco that has seriously damaged his campaign.
No doubt. But I was not talking about my awareness, but those I have spoken to. I don't think yours is a good example of preachiness or digression either. A gross generalization and oversimplification maybe. Anyway The people I was referring to probably would not have put their finger on "elitism" as the source of their discomfort, especially since they themselves are among the elite class already, just from the standpoint of wealth and position. You know, the type that can't remember how many houses they own.
Posted on: 21 September 2008 by David Tribe
I think that the word is "uppity". Amazingly, this term was applied to Obama recently by a sitting United States Representative, Lynn Westmoreland,(Dumbf**k Republican from Georgia).
Sadly, I fear that there are more people than we (some of us) would like to think (on both sides of the aisle) who will not vote for a black candidate. It makes it all the more important that the rest of us to get out and vote and to encourage others to do the same.
DCT
Sadly, I fear that there are more people than we (some of us) would like to think (on both sides of the aisle) who will not vote for a black candidate. It makes it all the more important that the rest of us to get out and vote and to encourage others to do the same.
DCT
Posted on: 21 September 2008 by John M
quote:Originally posted by David Tribe:
I think that the word is "uppity". Amazingly, this term was applied to Obama recently by a sitting United States Representative, Lynn Westmoreland,(Dumbf**k Republican from Georgia).
Sadly, I fear that there are more people than we (some of us) would like to think (on both sides of the aisle) who will not vote for a black candidate. It makes it all the more important that the rest of us to get out and vote and to encourage others to do the same.
DCT
word!!!
Posted on: 22 September 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by David Tribe:
I think that the word is "uppity". Amazingly, this term was applied to Obama recently by a sitting United States Representative, Lynn Westmoreland,(Dumbf**k Republican from Georgia).
Yeah, and then he compounded the insult by insisting that he didn't know it was derogatory!
One thing anyone who wants to help elect Obama can do is to go to his website, barackobama.com, and sign up to campaign in battleground states, either in person or by phone. It's the least we can do.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 10 November 2008 by fred simon
These are heady times, still difficult to totally wrap my mind around it. It keeps hitting me over and over, and I get verklempt and tear up when I hear the headlines on the radio start with "President-elect Barack Obama ... "
Bobby Kennedy had said it was conceivable that in 40 years we'd have an African-American president, but honestly I never really believed it was possible in my lifetime.
But it's not just that Obama is the first African-American president, it's not just that he's one of the most brilliant minds, it's not just that he's potentially one of the most progressive presidents ever, it's not just that his vision of masculinity isn't that bullshit cowboy macho thing, it's not just that we finally have a president who is truly committed to social justice, it's not just that he inspires so many around the world, it's not just that the election was so inarguably decisive or that he's our first president in a while who actually was elected, and it's not just that the world needs someone like him so desperately right now ... it's all of those things and much more, and it's blowing my mind.
I wasn't at Grant Park, although I kind of wish I had been. Seeing all those beautiful, joyous people, it occurred to me that, finally, Cheney's prediction had come true in a way: Obama and Biden were greeted by the American people as liberators! Regime change begins at home.
We had a lovely time ... my wife and I drank a bottle of champagne, and we let our daughter stay up until Obama's speech was over, near midnight. She was positively giddy, infected by the ebullient mood (no, she did not drink champagne even though I offered her a sip), and although we tried to explain, she doesn't fully understand yet why Mom and Dad were crying and laughing at the same time.
What a great time to be alive!
All the best,
Fred
Posted on: 19 November 2008 by fred simon
I was very pleased to hear Obama on 60 Minutes state readily and unequivocally that when he takes office he will sign executive orders closing the detention camp at Guantanamo and banning torture.
Best,
Fred
Posted on: 20 November 2008 by John M
Yes, Fred! I was on a plane to germany when the pilot announced the results and the whole plan erupted into cheers. I practically hugged the guy next to me.
I wore my Obama button the whole time I was there. A few people offered to buy it off me!
Something interesting happened too. I was walking down the street, alone at about midnight in Stuttgart and there were a pack of men walking my direction in front of me. For the sake of context, I will say that some had shaved heads and leather jackets, I think all were pink or white skinned, but nothing really stood out. A young man with brown skin and loose fitting clothes, ala hip hop culture came walking in the other direction. The group in front of me started shouting at him, and I thought uh oh, but then I realized they were cheering him because he had an Obama t-shirt on!! I admit I was prejudging, because I have a friend who was in Germany and ended up with a shattered jaw and nose when he tried to stop 4 guys from beating and taunting a brown skinned man with ethnic slurs. Could happen anywhere, but this did enter my thoughts as I watched it unfold. So I was really blown away....what a great moment.
I wore my Obama button the whole time I was there. A few people offered to buy it off me!
Something interesting happened too. I was walking down the street, alone at about midnight in Stuttgart and there were a pack of men walking my direction in front of me. For the sake of context, I will say that some had shaved heads and leather jackets, I think all were pink or white skinned, but nothing really stood out. A young man with brown skin and loose fitting clothes, ala hip hop culture came walking in the other direction. The group in front of me started shouting at him, and I thought uh oh, but then I realized they were cheering him because he had an Obama t-shirt on!! I admit I was prejudging, because I have a friend who was in Germany and ended up with a shattered jaw and nose when he tried to stop 4 guys from beating and taunting a brown skinned man with ethnic slurs. Could happen anywhere, but this did enter my thoughts as I watched it unfold. So I was really blown away....what a great moment.
Posted on: 20 November 2008 by fred simon
Something else to consider ... instead of the feared so-called "Bradley effect," in which white people tell a pollster they intend to vote for Obama but then do not when it comes time to pull the lever, apparently more white people actually voted for Obama than told pollsters they would do so.
Best,
Fred
Posted on: 22 November 2008 by gary1 (US)
Fred, sorry to say but be careful for what you wish for. Initial cabinet choices do not bode well as most/all are ex-Clinton advisors. This doesn't look much like "Change" to me. Makes you wonder in addition to his backers what Obama had to promise to make Bill/Hillary "go away" during the primary/convention.
Finally, lest you say things were good under Clinton, the recent Stock Market implosion has as much to do with Greenspan, Congress mishandling the economy as it does with excesses generated during Clinton's 8 years of unprecendented growth(fictitious) and "irrational exuberance."
I didn't like the other choice either and I do not consider the winner the lesser of two evils as I feel that both parties are incapable of governing and doing the right thing.
Love the JFK wardrobe and now the press referring to cabinet choices as the "best and the brightest." Remember where that got us. Just ask McNamara. Kennedy's biggest accomplishment was significantly lowering tax rates.
Our country is overall conservative, moderate,centrist and is being torn apart by right/left extremists and politicians who continue to sell out to lobbyists and the uberwealthy. No I'm not talking about those making $75K which the new administaration considers wealthy, but those making >$10M/yr and destroying their companies and the country for the sake of their own pockets. None of these people mentioned above live in the real world, including Congress. I don't know if you are aware, but earlier in the year congress voted itself a full pension of $15k/month if having served only one full 2 year term. Even the $700B bailout couldn't be done without adding pork to the bill and no oversight. Not one word of cutting spending and waste which is what is really required to solve the problems and not throw more good money after bad.
Finally, lest you say things were good under Clinton, the recent Stock Market implosion has as much to do with Greenspan, Congress mishandling the economy as it does with excesses generated during Clinton's 8 years of unprecendented growth(fictitious) and "irrational exuberance."
I didn't like the other choice either and I do not consider the winner the lesser of two evils as I feel that both parties are incapable of governing and doing the right thing.
Love the JFK wardrobe and now the press referring to cabinet choices as the "best and the brightest." Remember where that got us. Just ask McNamara. Kennedy's biggest accomplishment was significantly lowering tax rates.
Our country is overall conservative, moderate,centrist and is being torn apart by right/left extremists and politicians who continue to sell out to lobbyists and the uberwealthy. No I'm not talking about those making $75K which the new administaration considers wealthy, but those making >$10M/yr and destroying their companies and the country for the sake of their own pockets. None of these people mentioned above live in the real world, including Congress. I don't know if you are aware, but earlier in the year congress voted itself a full pension of $15k/month if having served only one full 2 year term. Even the $700B bailout couldn't be done without adding pork to the bill and no oversight. Not one word of cutting spending and waste which is what is really required to solve the problems and not throw more good money after bad.
Posted on: 24 November 2008 by fred simon
Gary, here's the problem as I view it ... Obama has two choices: either go with outsider neophytes like Carter did (and we all know how well that worked out), or go with proven experience and competence, most of which would naturally come from the most recent Democratic administration, Clinton. Obama will also likely appoint at least one Republican to a substantial position, maybe even a few, but what I've laid out is the basic deal ... what other options are there?
Although I would have loved to see Chris Rock as press secretary!
By the way, at no time has Obama ever suggested that an income of $75k qualifies as "wealthy" ... the figure is $250k.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 24 November 2008 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by munch:
Fred,
If i lived over there ,he would of got my vote.
Nothing to do with being black,white,pink or blue.
Its just the other guy was a joke.
At the end of the day nothing much will change in your country,They are all as bad or good as the next one to get in power.
Munch, I appreciate the support, but I really disagree that "nothing much will change" in the USA ... just the fact of his election is a monumental change of historic proportions, and the positive ramifications of that are only just starting to reverberate.
Further, the significance of his election to the world at large is a sea change as well ... billions of non-Caucasian people have been hearing that the USA is a place where, ostensibly, someone is judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin (as MLK, Jr. put it so eloquently), but they haven't seen as powerful a proof as this.
Finally, it's not just that the "other guy was a joke" ... millions and millions of people know that there is something very special about this man.
All best,
Fred