Producers/Engineers

Syd: Yes, Joe Boyd's book was a wonderful read. Interesting to see Felix Papperpaldi...I say that as althoug I found Disraeli Gears to be a great album I was not keen on the drums being relegated to the right speaker. I thought this was maybe just the original mix, though even on the remastered deluxe edition the drums continue to come from the right.

Martin Birch
John Mutt Lange
Flemming Rasmussen
Michael Wagener (ACCEPT)
Dieter Dierks

George Young (AC/DC)

quote:

Originally posted by 555:
An everyday tale of how a record can be ruined (& salvaged) ...



I'm really pleased this is coming out again.
It's called Don't Stand Me Down (Director's Cut) because this is the third time it's been released ('85, '97 and now).
Of the two previous releases, '85 was the original release and '97 was the Creation CD release.
Unfortunately, at the time of mastering the '97 effort, an awful sonic mistake was made.
During the mastering sessions, we had made sure the tapes sounded good and tweaked it so that the natural dynamics that were intended to be there when the music was written, shone through.

Then the engineer said to me right at the end of the whole process:
"Kevin, my final suggestion is to put a bit of this stereo enhancer on to finish it off."
"What's a stereo enhancer?" I asked.
"Oh, its just something that makes it louder, nothing else."
"Well, let me hear it" I said.
On listening to it, I suspected that the music had been subtly altered, and said so to the engineer "No."
He said "Trust me on this one Kevin. All it will do is make your record louder.
Every modern record has this on it now.
In fact, if you don't have it, your record will sound quieter than everyone else's."

I trusted him. But even when I got the test copy home and suspected strongly that the stereo enhancer had affected the music unfavourably, I put it down to my own sometimes obsessive over-pickiness. I lived to regret not speaking up. It gently gnawed away at me and I continued to doubt my own judgement until a few weeks after it had been released. Pete Schwier (the sound genius behind My Beauty and the man who mixed DSMD) phoned me up and said: "I've just heard it - is that a stereo enhancer on there?"

I was so disappointed, after going to a lot of trouble to get the record from Mercury and then getting Creation to put it out, etc, etc, etc. That effect had ruined the dynamics. It sounded OK, but not nearly as effective as it should have done, no where near as good as the record we made, and I felt bad about that. Stereo enhancers create a wash of sound but destroy subtlety. If your aim is to hit the listener over the head then a stereo enhancer is the thing. Groups such as Oasis use them to better effect, but such treatment is very wrong for my Famous Dixons. So here is the Director's cut. It now sounds to me as it was intended to sound.

Kevin Rowland talking about 'Don't Stand Me Down' from Dexy's Midnight Runners Discography.

I believe what is referred to as a "stereo enhancer" in this piece is more commonly known as a compressor.
I have the DSMD '97 & Director's Cut CDs in my collection & the sonic difference is staggering.

555

I doubt very much that the "stereo enhancer" Rowland refers to was simply a compressor. None of the engineers I know would ever refer to a compressor as anything other than a compressor. I've never read the term "stereo enhancer" used to refer to compression either.

And on a more general point. The appropriate use of compression (by which I mean dynamic gain manipulation rather than lossy digital encoding) is not necessarily a bad thing when recording electro-acoustic music. In fact it's compression that sometimes makes the whole endeavor possible. Glyn Johns for example, I've no doubt, would have used compressors extensively during the sessions that created those wonderful early Joan Armatrading records (I'm listening to one now and I can hear a compressor on her voice, it's partly responsible for that lovely, intimate quality).

I completely agree that over-cooked mastering compression, where the entire track is hard up against a limiter thanks to the demands of the radio play is horrible, but used carefully and creatively, compression is often the key to making recorded music sound life-like and dynamic. There are numerous greater sins in recording music than using compressors.

Phil

quote:

There are numerous greater sins in recording music than using compressors.

Yeah some of the acts recorded!

quote:

... compression is often the key to making recorded music sound life-like and dynamic.

10/10 for that oxymoron Phil!

I'd also not heard of a stereo enhancer before reading that article, hence my assumption.
If it's not a compressor do you know what bit of kit Kev's referring to?

quote:

I completely agree that over-cooked mastering compression, where the entire track is hard up against a limiter thanks to the demands of the radio play is horrible ...

But that's what Rowland appears to be describing.

Not an oxymoron I'm afraid. That's the irony with compression. Used competently it has the opposite effect than that intuitively expected. Drums sound snappier, bass guitars punchier and voices more dynamic. It's all to do with the way the ratio, attack and release time of the compressor interacts with the dynamics of the instrument and the musician. Psychoacoustics is a funny thing and often anti-intuitive.

I've never quite understood why the compressor is always seen in the hi-fi world as the villain of the piece in the contemporary recording (loudness wars style mix limiting apart). If you ask me, the problems are the near limitless track count of ProTools and Logic (that means all the creative decisions get made by committee), the lost skills of microphone placement, and the lost bank of incredibly talented session musicians (these days, thanks to MIDI and ProTools and the like, everybody can "play" every instrument). If Glyn Johns was recording Joan Armatrading today, he'd be very hard pressed to put together such a talented band for her as he did in the late 70s.

Anyhow, I suspect what Rowland heard and hated was one of the various "enhancers" that pop up every now and then. These tend to offer a closely guarded mix of harmonic enhancement (that'll be distortion then) and phase manipulation to so some stereo widening tricks (and trash the timing of the music). I hate them too, but they're not, on the whole, compressors.

Phil

Thanks for the interesting reply Phil.
I'm not familiar with the music you mention so frustratingly can't directly relate.
I've used compressors professionally in TV editing,
but only for complete features (making the final mix satisfactory for transmission).
I've also not been in a music studio to hear the effects you describe when vocals & instruments are individually processed. That certainly is counter intuitive!

I've concluded most of the problems relating to audio quality I find as a listener,
are due to poor education & skills in the industry.

I sold a pair of PMC monitors once to a guy in the states - Greg Droman.

Turns out he wanted them for pro use as he's a sound engineer/mixer. Fleetwood Mac's 'Tango in the Night'(he's credited on the album notes) is one of his jobs which he tells me was more or less mixed in Lindsay Buckingham's garage using his BMW car stereo. He commented on the quality of equipment used to mix/balance sound recordings v's the near obsessive desire for perfection of us audiophiles in replay.

He also mentioned that they blew the car player in the process!

Just thought I'd pass it on.

Graeme