Is there going to be a Naim Digital Streamer?

I've just got up and reading these latest developments and (trickle) of information....

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON..??!!!

Good post up above John (fixedwheel)...

I too am a big Apple fan and user, both professionally and domestically, but I am just not understanding this iPod approach with the DAC....Seems a complete waste of R&D and also, as pointed out, license fees to Apple - would have been better to concentrate on native ALEC support on the Uniti & HDX or even some bundled (working) UPnP software with those units...or, I know, some 5.1 codecs and make the DAC a truly universal media hub !

I mean, it's getting laughable - Controlling one iPod wirelessly with another iPod, to then wirelessly stream content from another Mac/PC/HD ?! Talk about going round the houses......

I don't know.....I just can't see how a tethered iPod function is going to be of large appeal to anyone potentially interested in a £2k DAC - surely they would go to the Uniti ?

Please, take the buttons away - they are NOT needed here.

Very, very confusing......

Steve

sp, typo: ALAC

Ha! Interesting...

Perhaps Naim aren't the only ones...

Have just been reading of some developments in custom install and iPods etc from Crestron. (credit: Andrew Everard blog/WHFI)

A snippet:

Kicking off a fascinating presentation of the latest products, UK Residential Sales Manager Phil Solomons showed us the new iPod docks, available in both free-standing and in-wall designs.

Its Crestron-Mobile iPod Touch/iPhone app was launched earlier in the year, allowing complete control of a Crestron multiroom entertainment system from one of the little touchscreen devices, but Solomons explains there's more to their role than that.

iPod is the new server: Increasingly, the massive 'server under the stairs' is being replaced by iPods in custom installations, allowing local libraries of music to be played via the audio system in the room where they're docked, or accessed remotely across a whole-house system.

A simple push-button on the docks lets the iPod switch from local use to access anywhere, and you can also sync the player with any computer on the network running iTunes, just as if you had a direct USB connection between the two.

That's just one of the innovations in Crestron's latest line-up. For example, you can also buy a new remote handset able to control the complete system via wi-fi, while also doubling as an intercom/phone handset.

Intriguing, too, is that the handset operates on the 'slowest' 802.11a-type wi-fi, while also having b/g compatibility. Why so? Solomons explains that as home wi-fi has moved up from b to g and n versions, things have got a bit cluttered in those parts of the spectrum. So the Crestron handset runs 'a', where's there's not much else going on.


All well and good, but I really am scratching my head at the Achilles heel of the approach - wireless streaming to the iPod.

Steve

You might be scratching your head, but the kids are not-the iPod functionality is market-driven and to exclude this would be silly.

In five years' time people will look back at the USB DAC phenomenon and be scratching their heads, asking why someone would put a commodity PC with noisy, fixed storage in their living room when they could use an iPod (no noise) instead (and yes, Gregg, nobody really cares about the demise of the iPod classic 'cos it's got a lifestyle-cramping spinning hard disk in it).

The kids ??! - £2k DAC.

£10K streamer? Why not buy a Squeezebox instead?

Who mentioned a £10k streamer ?

They (kids) WILL buy a Squeezebox, or a ATV, or just stick it in a JBL dock and be done with it - that's my point...Considering they largely consider music a free commodity, getting them to spend even THAT much is a minor miracle...

So offering a £2k audiophile DAC and making a big deal of it having a Ipod connection is just completely missing the point (and market) as far as I - and others - can see....Sure, have the function, but lets not shout loud & proud about it when there are other glaring omissions in function.....

By the way, I'm 37, so hopefully not too much more than a 'kid' (albeit with more common sense hopefully!) and I have more Macs and iPods around the apartment & work studio than I can shake a stick at...If I want to stick a iPod in a dock and listen to some 'lite' music, then I have many, many means to do so.....This was NOT what led me to desire a Naim audio system....

Steve.

Paul et al,

You are so nice and so sensible and your company I admire so much that I hate to be a whiner. But as you can see the people above are all die hard Naimees who love nothing more than sticking with Naim for that sound the captured us. I think it is not a coincidence that they all echo almost the same sentiments and frustrations.

They have all had experience in using a successful streaming solution and it looks like it is something that they will stay with for a long time.

I really think you should consider our opinions because we have been through the wilderness and had that eureka moment when we found something that clicked.

I am far from an iPod hater, I owned 4 and they are very useful devices and good for their price and what they are intended for. Like many who final settled with something like the SqueezeCenter platform, I have tried everything from SACD, DVDA. iPod, PC output to DAC, went back to a Naim CD player, and finally settled on the SqueezeCenter platform with the Transporter. Once you settle on a properly implemented streaming platform you just stay with it. In net speak they call it stickiness.

Now of course the Slim Devices/Logitech is never a high end audio company. And since the Logitech acquisition it looks like it will stay a gadget company with no likely iteration of the transporter. So I have been waiting for Linn/Naim or even Meridian to come up with something for us audio snobs.

I had a few false starts with my hands in my pocket waiting to sign the credit. First was the HDX which was unnecessarily over-priced with the 2 boat anchors hard drives built inside and an interface that half works. Then came the Linn DS which had a terrible user interface that did not even have search function.

But Linn DS has a future since they are developed on open platform, and finally someone came up with a link to the SqueezeCenter platform and all of a sudden the Linn DS is opened up to a whole new world.

I think I may just about be ready to acquire a Linn DS with the Dynamik power supply. I may go back to the Naim streaming platform when they become mature and available.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
You might be scratching your head, but the kids are not-the iPod functionality is market-driven and to exclude this would be silly.

In five years' time people will look back at the USB DAC phenomenon and be scratching their heads, asking why someone would put a commodity PC with noisy, fixed storage in their living room when they could use an iPod (no noise) instead (and yes, Gregg, nobody really cares about the demise of the iPod classic 'cos it's got a lifestyle-cramping spinning hard disk in it).

First of all you are not ignoring the iPod people by coming out with a proper streaming platform. I am one of the iPod people, and I use both. To stick my iPod in with the Naim system is quaint, it may satisfy a curiosity of how it good it could sound, but that's about it.

David, Not trying to ask a rhetorical question, but may I ask if you have experience with the SqueezeCenter platform?

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
In five years' time people will look back at the USB DAC phenomenon and be scratching their heads, asking why someone would put a commodity PC with noisy, fixed storage in their living room when they could use an iPod (no noise) instead (and yes, Gregg, nobody really cares about the demise of the iPod classic 'cos it's got a lifestyle-cramping spinning hard disk in it).

I agree that in 5 years time PC/USB/DAC solution will be obsolete. I am quite sure that it will be some sort of streaming platform, the server would possibly be a combination of a home server or public storage space provided by Internet service providers, doe a fee or advert based.

>> So offering a £2k audiophile DAC and making a big deal of it having a Ipod connection is just completely missing the point (and market) as far as I - and others - can see....Sure, have the function, but lets not shout loud & proud about it when there are other glaring omissions in function.....

Egg'Xactly, I really think that there is a cultural gap here in terms of what's happening in the world of digital audio.

>> By the way, I'm 37, so hopefully not too much more than a 'kid' (albeit with more common sense hopefully!) and I have more Macs and iPods around the apartment & work studio than I can shake a stick at...If I want to stick a iPod in a dock and listen to some 'lite' music, then I have many, many means to do so.....This was NOT what led me to desire a Naim audio system.... Roll Eyes

Exactly X 2! I am even in my 40's and feel the same way. Much ado about nothing indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
By the way, I'm 37, so hopefully not too much more than a 'kid' (albeit with more common sense hopefully!) and I have more Macs and iPods around the apartment & work studio than I can shake a stick at...If I want to stick a iPod in a dock and listen to some 'lite' music, then I have many, many means to do so.....This was NOT what led me to desire a Naim audio system....

Steve.

Well age ain't nuttin' but a number. I'm 36 and the iPod dock makes total sense to me even though I have no intention of using it.

Have you forgotten the wild success of this little number?


I bet Naim hasn't.

Agreed, and thus, they brought us this:



But, we are talking about a £2k standalone DAC here, not a £400 one box dock....

IMHO having the IPod connection as an option for whomever needs it is fine, but making it mandatory is kind of blackmailing. Apple is doing their best to build a monopoly and I dont want to contribute. The IPod is not playing FLAC natively, so I would need to recode my whole collection or let the server doing this. Additionally the wireless security of the IPod is limited, e.g. you cant hide the SSID and I´m definitively not willing to decrease the security of my WLAN.

Again, Linn perfectly shows how to do it. The DS is based on open standards and people can develop their own software. You can use an Ipod, a PC, a Nokia or a windows mobile handheld to control, so everybody can choose the interface he likes. Today it´s all about flexibility.

thx n brgds...TC

Guys

I have just turned my computer on this morning and I just can't believe what I'm hearing.

Our Linn Acccurate DS streams just about anything you throw at it. I'm not an Ipod owner, but my kids are and they seem to be able to stream all their Itunes stuff through the DS with no problems whatsoever.

I've just asked one of them (sort of wish I hadn't!) but he apparently uses PlugPlayer on his Itouch which cost the princly sum of £3. This enables him, to access everything on our NAS (FLAC and itunes backups etc) and stream anything he wants through the Linn DS (or the Sonos in the Kitchn) - all totally wirelessly!!

Furthemore he can get it to stream stuff off other computers to the DS also.

That's all in addition to me being able to control the DS from any one of 6 computers in the house or my normal Nokia 810 media table.

So who in their right mind would choose the Naim DAC option as a viable streaming option?

In common with others on here, I've been a Naim enthusiast for 20 years and in my main Hifi, the only non Naim component in all those years has been my LP12. I didn't want to buy a Linn DS, but had no choice. As somebody else has said, I'm not ranting out of anger, merely frustration

Gary S.,

But if you are happy with the performance/user interface of the Linn DS thing, looks like you already have solved the dilemma.

Kuma

You have missed my point. Yes I'm sort of happy, but I would much rather have a Naim box in the rack.

Gary

Why?

Good point, I'm not really sure why. I have always loved the Naim sound and their slight quirkiness. I am also extremly brand loyal to Naim and it frustrates me that in terms of streamers, there is no Naim alternative. It frustrates me even more that Naim clearly have their head in the sand over this and I genuinly fear it may be their downfall.

We could do with joining these separate threads..?

Although, having one in HiFi and one in DA rooms says something in itself..!

Steve.

I am not certain why you think Naim have their head in their sand, but if you are getting the desired results from other box, why fret?

Obviously, you liked the Linn unit which fits your criteria.

I guess I never understood the brand loyalty thing.

I'd start worrying when they start compromising too much of their house sound over features.

If Naim's upcoming *streamer* is another me-too product, there are enough products to fill that niche.

The reason I ended up with so many Naim boxes is because their ability to play music to my liking.

So far they haven't let me down too much, so I remain hopeful.

Perhaps Naim see that there are a number of streaming solutions already on the market - Sonos / Slim Devices - the Naim DAC can improve on these.

I agree with all the comments above though - they have all the components in place to do straming from a UPnP server, or even better the HDX mini computer type solution with its better user interface (and when software updated) pulling music off a NAS.

The ability to browse my whole music collection, via a quick and slick user interface from my sofa is one luxury i wouldnt want to lose from my system. I hope Naim comes up with a solution that is just as good.

James

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
You might be scratching your head, but the kids are not-the iPod functionality is market-driven and to exclude this would be silly.

But are the kids the target market for Naim? Do they have the disposable income required?

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
In five years' time people will look back at the USB DAC phenomenon and be scratching their heads, asking why someone would put a commodity PC with noisy, fixed storage in their living room when they could use an iPod (no noise) instead

Careful David, that is coming very close to describing the computer side of a HDX

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
(and yes, Gregg, nobody really cares about the demise of the iPod classic 'cos it's got a lifestyle-cramping spinning hard disk in it).

Now you are knocking on the HDX's door again. Except the HDX has two, and they are noisier than the one in the iPod.

John

Good posts Allen & John...

Lots of nails|heads|on|hitting here today...

quote:

Originally posted by Naijeru:
Have you forgotten the wild success of this little number?


I bet Naim hasn't.

But most people seem to have forgotten this..


And rightly so.

John