Is there going to be a Naim Digital Streamer?

OK ROTF. Sounds great.

Have fun being a bitter old person who holds grudges and cant turn the page.

It must have been traumatic, whatever happened.

Apple, MS, Google, Yahoo..... Exxon, BP, Enron, Goldman Sachs, Arthur Anderson.... whatever... they are all evil, all buddies, and only care to make gobs of money at any cost. To think one is less morally bankrupt than another is folly.

Of course we are stuck with Big Business for now, and they do offer the world things like iPods and sedans, but at a cost of course.

Wow - is this off topic. But might as well put in my 2 penneth

I've never been much of a Microsoft fan. I don't like windows - or the way they manipulate the industry. Apple as far more innovative and easier to use (just the way my brain works). Just my opinion.

However pcstockton is dead right. Google are no knights in shinning armour. Quite the opposite. They opposed a variant of opensource licensing because it didn't fit their selfish business interests (AGPL). They even work with repressive regimes - checkout Google China!

Do no Evil - Bollocks. They are as bad as each other.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
OK ROTF. Sounds great.

Have fun being a bitter old person who holds a Grudgs and can't turn the page.

How did you know I used a German pen, it's a Mont Blanc rather than a Grudge, and the problems I have with slight arthritis in my fingers that can make it painful to turn over the page - curious to know how you knew - you haven't found a way to hack in to my Amiga, have you?

My glass bowl says the neighbours are getting a bit annoyed my playing Sympathy for the devil so loud. oh, it also mentioned that Linn is going to release a new streamer range in the coming months

Ah the pleasure of watching all this unfold with a ipod touch in my hand and a Firewire DAC on my rack - lovely.

I think if i was going to do all this again - an Akurate DS would have been a good solution. Now Linn have got the user interface sorted it would be a no brainer.

James

It's easy I just wait until Naim brings out the right product for me - the alternative of buying another brand and then throwing it away when Naim produce the goods is not something I'm in a financial position to do.

Fred, turn the volume down a bit, please.

Hi,

Well I tried, and I got the reply I thought I would get.

Apart from a few people on here who really know and understand what a top line streamer can do unfortunately all I can see is people discussing how to make a DAC work with one computer or another.

You completely miss the point of what a streaming system is for, the HDX is not the answer, having disk drives in a box is wrong. The shelf life of a disk drive is not long. I mean look at how long the LP12 has been going and the originals still work. You really think your disk drive will be working in 10 years time! AS for the Uniti it is for those wanting a cheap one box solution.

Streaming music should be about having a device, the streamer that accepts stored digital music, however done now or in the future, given to it over a network that is controlled by whatever device you see fit to use.

In 10 years time are you still going to use your MAC or PC to hold and stream the music from, of course not, it will be in the bucket.

What is required is something that can keep pace with the fast changing pace of computer technology that holds your data and a device that accepts that data, this is what a streamer is for. It then passes that data stream now converted to analogue to a regular HiFi, nothing more and nothing less. That HiFi can be as cheap or as complex and expensive as is required by the user.

The beauty of the single one box streamer is that it can keep pace with technology, yes slim devices and sonos do similar things but not at the level of a Linn streamer.

All I see from Naim is great hi fi, but a rapidly diminishing front end market for CD players as streamers take over.

Cheers

John

I couldn't agree more John (apart from the bit about not using Macs in 10 years ! )

Like I posted a few pages back, any future streamer really should be aiming to be the audio equivalent of a HUB...Numerous inputs covering all the bases all being channelled out to the HiFi...Software/firmware upgradeable for future formats. And as I've argued (and prayed) for elsewhere, even throw in some AV formats in there - make it the home hub of entertainment.......As far as my logic tells me, it's a no brainer...I really feel Naim could capture a market there.

I think the reason why there is so much 'straight' DAC talk is that basically that's all that seems to be coming from Naim, certainly in the foreseeable future (and who waits around these days ?), and consequently that is what customers, along with dealers, are led to and a 'mindset' established....You're very right, there is a lot of traditional HiFi thinking going on here and in the meantime the front-end is rapidly changing and being developed all around by others - we need only to look at the Summer Sounds tour with modded CD players for this....Not exactly radical stuff.

I have a feeling Naim will get there and for sure it will be good, but like other examples in the past, it will be very slow to the market...How damaging this is I guess remains to be seen...

Thankfully, they still make the best pre-amps and amps in the world... Perhaps it really is Naim|Linn all over again....

Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
I couldn't agree more John (apart from the bit about not using Macs in 10 years ! )

Like I posted a few pages back, any future streamer really should be aiming to be the audio equivalent of a HUB...Numerous inputs covering all the bases all being channelled out to the HiFi...Software/firmware upgradeable for future formats. And as I've argued (and prayed) for elsewhere, even throw in some AV formats in there - make it the home hub of entertainment.......As far as my logic tells me, it's a no brainer...I really feel Naim could capture a market there.

This is an argument for a DAC, not a streamer. You are basically arguing for Naim to make an Apple TV. Something tells me that is not their strength and they should stick to hi-fi which they excel at. My computer is far superior at being a HUB than any device I've seen from Linn, Sooloos, Sonos et al. To me a source is something that really belongs in the computer domain which requires a very different thinking from the world of audio. Computer technology changes extremely rapidly, every device on the market today will be obsolete in six month's time. The HDX is already a dinosaur in computer technology terms. Why should Naim get into the computer business with a streamer? On the other hand, no matter what devices and standards are cooked up those digital signals will need to be made analog at some point.

I want my hi-fi to be hi-fi and nothing else. A DAC is a perfect interface for this because it need know nothing about what is happening on the other end of that digital signal. A streamer on the other hand is tied to the technology available at release and can only be modified through firmware upgrades. Ridiculous! Am I going to have to patch every one of my devices now to keep them secure and update them with the latest codecs? It will be years before the dust settles on streaming audio and we have reliable standards that one can build a truly high-end device and know that it will work simply with customer computers. Until then I think Naim is making the right decision by going the DAC route and playing wait and see with regard to streamers. If they truly are the future, then there is plenty of time to make one and make it right. As for market share, so what? Life isn't all about market share and the last thing we need is another me too company jumping on the latest bandwagon like some Hollywood executive copying movie ideas from more talented studios.

I think that Naim will first come up with the DAC and later we will see a streamer (like a HDX without the hard disks and without a CD drive) which can be connected to the DAC.

quote:

What is required is something that can keep pace with the fast changing pace of computer technology

I work in the computer industry and find it ponderously slow - nothing has really changed in 30 years - sure the fashion changes, but we are still use TCP/IP much as it was in the early 1970s - and now we are going back to large centralised computers just like the 1960s. It is just fashion.

You can easily buy a streamer from Logitech and others; it will pass the bits in to a high quality DAC such as the Naim DAC. I can't see why Naim needs to make a streamer; what next ask them to make a switch or a router?

ATB Rotf

[/QUOTE]I work in the computer industry and find it ponderously slow - nothing has really changed in 30 years - sure the fashion changes, but we are still use TCP/IP much as it was in the early 1970s - and now we are going back to large centralised computers just like the 1960s. It is just fashion.[/QUOTE]

I also work in the computer industry, for more than 30 years too, I dont find it slow, I find it alarming fast.

The means of transferring data around may use the same structure but the hardware, software and the processing power has increased to such an extent that a small home computer will have more computing power than the Apollo space program.

Nobody is asking Naim to make a switch or a router, what we are asking for is a proper streamer. not something from Logitech, something that is as one poster has just said is the hub for musical and AV enjoyment. In my case music alone is enough.

With thinking along the lines of nothing has changed in 30 years seems very Naim thinking to me!

No wonder people are buying Linn, they thought they would sell a few hundred streamers in a year, they are now selling thousands. That tells you how much Naim have missed the boat.

Cheers

John

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
I work in the computer industry and find it ponderously slow - nothing has really changed in 30 years - sure the fashion changes, but we are still use TCP/IP much as it was in the early 1970s - and now we are going back to large centralised computers just like the 1960s. It is just fashion.
ATB Rotf

Sounds to me that you are not working in the computer industry, like Naim, LOL.

I was very interested to read about the PerfectWave DAC. It is both a DAC that you can use with your existing digital sources, and a streamer, and a preamp, so pretty much covers all bases. And not silly money either. An interesting competitor for the DS stuff.

All this crap about streaming is all well and good.

End of the day if something sounds so much better surely anyone would cope? After all it can't be any worse than getting off the sofa and changing a CD?

Pass me another slice of pizza.

Nappy,

I agree fully on the streaming side of things. I mean if it is wireless streamer people want, I kind of get it. But a hardwired streamer? Why?

I dont get it at all.

Exactly why again do peeps want a streamer?

Or do those really want an HDX without discs or drive.

Or is that was a streamer is?

Color me confused.
-p

Hi,

Well in simple terms a good streamer, exclude the HDX, as it is not a streamer in the true sense, is just so much better than any CD player around.

Wired streamer, because it is a better connection data stream wise. You dont object to mains wire connections to your HiFi do you, so why worry about one single wire to the streamer.

Once you have used a streamer and seen what it can do you will be converted.

I sat next to a friend of mine who had never used a streaming system. The only thing in the room was a pair of speaker and an iPAQ. If I say the system playing was the top of the range. Took him less than a minute to work out how it all worked and he found tracks and played them in seconds using the iPAQ.

Try doing that with a collection of 1800 LP's or 1500 CD's. If you dont get the picture you never will.

Cheers

John

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Nappy,

I agree fully on the streaming side of things. I mean if it is wireless streamer people want, I kind of get it. But a hardwired streamer? Why?

I dont get it at all.

Exactly why again do peeps want a streamer?

Or do those really want an HDX without discs or drive.

Or is that was a streamer is?

Color me confused.
-p

Well I've been called a few things in my time but that's the first time I've been called a diaper.

quote:

Originally posted by John Campbell:
Hi,

Well in simple terms a good streamer, exclude the HDX, as it is not a streamer in the true sense, is just so much better than any CD player around.

Wired streamer, because it is a better connection data stream wise. You dont object to mains wire connections to your HiFi do you, so why worry about one single wire to the streamer.

Once you have used a streamer and seen what it can do you will be converted.

I sat next to a friend of mine who had never used a streaming system. The only thing in the room was a pair of speaker and an iPAQ. If I say the system playing was the top of the range. Took him less than a minute to work out how it all worked and he found tracks and played them in seconds using the iPAQ.

In all fairness, however, you can power on an HDX and be off and running–it is fully self-contained, requires no configuration out of the box, and has sufficient built-in storage to handle a basic CD library.

You don't even need a network connection.

As for wireless streaming - the NaimUniti, as well as products from a variety of other manufacturers, do this already. (I believe NetStreams has also completed work on protocols for synchronized (proxied) wireless streaming for NaimNet / DigiLinX.)

Would a hard drive-less, transport-less HDX be a streamer?

Is a streamer basically a DAC with ethernet input and some kind of internal PC that includes a player?

quote:

Originally posted by John Campbell:

Try doing that with a collection of 1800 LP's or 1500 CD's. If you dont get the picture you never will.

Cheers

John

Oh I get it, and with a larger collection than that. Wondering though what the need for the streamer is with a PC in the same room.

Why not simply use a DAC and output from the PC via one of the hundred different ways of doing so? That way you can use your software/player of choice (Foobar, iTunes, MM etc...)

If needing a computer in the first place, why have more unneeded computer bits inside the source (streamer)?

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
If needing a computer in the first place, why have more unneeded computer bits inside the source (streamer)?

I want to just use a NAS (network attached storage) to store my digital music and connect that to my streamer which should just convert it to a digital output for a DAC which has been designed in the best possible way to work with a Naim (pre-)amp.

I never, ever want a computer (Mac, PC or otherwise) with digital audio output directly connected to a DAC.
My PC is for other purposes then doing audio processing and I don't want it in the living room or near the audio equipment. All this noisy and disturbing stuff should be out of the room and only a Cat5 ethernet can come into the room.

I just want a NAS --> a streamer --> a DAC --> Naim (pre-)amp and an iPod or something like it to remotely control the streamer.

Not to much to ask is it?

-
Aleg

I know it's Sonos fair that no-one can Squeeze something in a box .

@ Aleg

That's exactly what I want, and I certainly don't want Wi-Fi anywhere near my music system.