Road speed limit cut to 50mph

Bring back the man with the red flag.

Speed may be a contributing factor in some deaths on the road, but to penalise all motorists, the bulk of who can actually drive safely, is rediculous.

The Law of unintended consequences will click in and cause consternation to the treasury because it will reduce the amount of fuel tax gathered as vehicles will use less fuel. Then they will have to increase the speeding fines, road tax and fuel tax to compensate.

quote:

it will reduce the amount of fuel tax gathered as vehicles will use less fuel. Then they will have to increase the speeding fines, road tax and fuel tax to compensate.

No necessarily Derek. The cost of a fatal accident is well over £1m, so there is a big potential saving. Since getting a very small car to potter into Chichester every day, 50 seems quite fast enough on the back roads. You would still be able to travel at 70 on big roads so this seems like a really good plan.

Nigel

On balance I think the use of spaced cameras to check avarage speeds and a reduction on many or most roads to 50 mph will be a very good thing.

More than anything else it will have the considerable benefit of reducing fuel wastage which is something not being considered enough in my view.

ATB from George

Given the back road to Chi via Funtington example the amount of time one get over 50mph is quite short - however it will make the A272 even more tedious. However as the 30mph limit for the various villages in the area are always being expanded there will not be much road left to be limited to 50mph.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:


More than anything else it will have the considerable benefit of reducing fuel wastage which is something not being considered enough in my view.

ATB from George

You say that George, but my car will only just pull top gear (6th) at 50mph, any incline and I would have to change down a gear to the detriment of fuel economy. Most cars are geared to run at the nations current speed limits, so you may not see the improvement you think.

In fact the current mpg test points are at 90kph (56mph) and 120kph (75mph), so manufacturers make them most efficient at these points....

Above 50mph the auto box on my car locks so that slippage in the gear box is eliminated so traveling at less than 50 is less efficient.

Sounds to me like there are one or two inadequately designed cars out there!

ATB from Goerge

quote:

Edmund King, president of the AA, warned that the move could alienate some motorists. Last year the AA asked 17,481 motorists if the limit on single carriageway roads should be cut to 50mph. Nearly half backed the move but 38% opposed it.

He said: “There are quitea few single carriageway rural roads that are straight and adequately wide, where 60mph – in the right conditions, driving sensibly — is not a problem.

“The danger of the blanket approach is: are you going to then reduce speed limits just for the sake of it where you don’t need to? That’s where you lose the respect or the support of the motorist.

“We all know some rural roads where the 60mph limit is ridiculous, although there are equally others where it suits. So it is a case of getting that balance.”

This seems a fair comment.

Instead of reducing the speed limit and spending a fortune on Average Speed Cameras spend that money on making the road itself safer. I live in Southend and they have spent around 1.5 million pounds on Average speed cameras along the A127. The road condition is still rubbish and everyone spends more time looking down at their speedo to see what speed they are doing than looking at the road ahead.

It's always easy to target speed, but IMO it's other bad driving habits that cause the majority of accidents. On the A508 between Norhtampton and Stony Stratford there is currently a 60mph limit; in a few places most drivers naturally slow down to 40-50mph on bends. I've probably seen a dozen accidents along this road in the last 10 years - usually a hot hatch upside down in a field. I've also been dangeriously overtaken many times - again usually the hot hatch packed with lads and a few girls they are desperately trying to impress. I'm by no means a slow driver btw. I worry that reducing the speed limit we will have the opposite effect - more impatient drivers overtaking dangeriously with fatal consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Sounds to me like there are one or two inadequately designed cars out there!

ATB from Goerge

Not one of your usual considered posts George.

There's a lot more going on than you're aware of / want to acknowledge.

I would welcome a day when all cars are automatically governed to a maximum speed as HGVs are now, though this governing could, with advancing technology, be varied according to the prevailing speed limit on any given section of road, and even be further reduced in conditions of frost and ice, or poor visibility for two examples.

Cars that cannot thus be equipped and governed could continue to run on the road, with the proviso that if the car is ever involved in a speed infringement, that the car, however old and rare and possibly valuable, will be confiscated and either crushed or permanently placed in a museum - whichever is the more appropriate.

I am, and always have been, against the arrogance of speedy drivers, who blame everything else before accepting that their own speediness is a major contributory factor in making things worse when they cause an accident.

ATB from George

How many of the current 3,000 road deaths a year are due to speeding?

How many of these that are due to speeding will be eliminated by a general reduction to 50 mph?

How many "frustration" deaths will be introduced as a consequence of such reduction in the speed limit?

I thought the national speed limits were a MAXIMUM speed permitted. I had assumed that within these limits you were required to drive at a lower speed if circumstances required eg road geometry, road surfae contamination (water, ice, snow, loose gravel etc. Have I missed something significant here?

Averaging speed cameras, or any others for that matter, ain't gona stop the mindless arsehole from overtaking at 90mph then slamming on the old anchors to keep his average below 50mph.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I would welcome a day when all cars are automatically governed to a maximum speed as HGVs are now, ATB from George

And herein lies the main problem. We are rapidly moving towards a nanny state, where nobody has to think or be responsible any more, because there's always somebody/something to take care of them, or someone else to blame.

Who is at fault, the person speeding (not that I am defending them) or the person who pulls out of the side road in the first place? Speed would surely be a contributing factor in the severity of the accident, but it was not the cause.

Perhaps we should educate people better? Each road should be judged on it's merits and a speed limit fixed accordingly.

This is just another case of the government wanting to earn money from fines, and remove the responsibilty from the driver.

Excessive speed on country roads has to be controlled somehow but I'm not sure this is the way to do it, but then, I don't have too many other smart ideas. Surely this is something to be done through education - why do people feel the need to tear around small windy roads at such speed? Is it because we see cars being marketed in this way? And I am getting fed up with seeing Clarkson rabbiting on about some machines 'road-holding' etc, which only tempts people to try it out for themselves. Oh god, I really do sound like my dad.

The shame of it is that I have an office about 5 miles from where I live in the country, and I would dearly love to cycle every day. But the fact is - it's too dangerous, and it's only a matter of time before I would be found in a ditch, having been zapped by a passing lunatic.
So instead, I drive to the office, and my engine has barely warmed up before I get there, with the consequent hit on pollution and fuel consumption not to mention wear, and weight gain . And, no, there isn't a bus service...

I welcome the fact that someone is looking at this, but I'm not sure a blanket limit is the way.
My 2p
John

People are forced to use inadequate country roads because the main roads are too remote and overcrowded.

Force the commuters back into the towns and out of the villages. House people in 5 floor apartment blocks near their work locations and they will not have to travel so far to work.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I would welcome a day when all cars are automatically governed to a maximum speed as HGVs are now, though this governing could, with advancing technology, be varied according to the prevailing speed limit on any given section of road, and even be further reduced in conditions of frost and ice, or poor visibility for two examples.

Dangerous! What other options would like to removed from the driver of the vehicle?

quote:

I am, and always have been, against the arrogance of speedy drivers, who blame everything else before accepting that their own speediness is a major contributory factor in making things worse when they cause an accident.

ATB from George

Hmmmm, I'm doing the speed limit so I'm safe and can stop being attentive is what tends to happen.

Cheers
Steve

PD

quote:

Originally posted by Guinnless:

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I would welcome a day when all cars are automatically governed to a maximum speed as HGVs are now, though this governing could, with advancing technology, be varied according to the prevailing speed limit on any given section of road, and even be further reduced in conditions of frost and ice, or poor visibility for two examples.

Dangerous! What other options would like to removed from the driver of the vehicle?

quote:

I am, and always have been, against the arrogance of speedy drivers, who blame everything else before accepting that their own speediness is a major contributory factor in making things worse when they cause an accident.

ATB from George

Hmmmm, I'm doing the speed limit so I'm safe and can stop being attentive is what tends to happen.

Cheers
Steve

Dear Steve,

Second point first.

Clearly the problem is that the speed limit is all to often taken as the minimum acceptable speed by all too many motorists!

The driver must attend with great care to the specific road conditions as they pertain to the stretch of road concerned, the light, the weight of traffic, the temperature, the condition of the road surface etc. ...

None of these variables can be adequately be entirely legislated for in a speed limit, beyond coming up with a legal speed limit which represents a possible maximum safe speed given the variety of traffic and drivers using the road, accounting for the less able as well the most able.

It will be too slow for some very skilled drivers in very fine motors, and it may well be too fast for less good or very old drivers.

However the less good drivers still have the use of the road, and it is for these that the speed of the best drivers should be governed so that the speed of the best drivers does not cause trouble to the worst.

No, clearly too much attention to driving at or just below the speed limit is wrong, as the driver's attention should be focussed on watching the road and attending completely to driving safely, rather than being constantly distracted by too much attention to driving at or very close to the speed limilt.

If technology could be used to save the driver the trouble of risking breaking the speed limit deemed safe by experts for the road concerned by governing the vehicle automatically then more attention could be paid to the crucial business of road-craft, and safe driving.

But your idea of removing the driver from any responsibility for driving at all would be a very good long term aim, as most accidents are the result of human error, rather than mechanical or system failures in the vehicles involved.

Yes, taking the driver out of the car would be a very good aim indeed, but it is not realistic yet.

Clearly governing vehicle speed beyond the possibility of adjustment by the driver has not proved dangerous for HGVs, and should be applied across the board to all road vehicles as soon as technologies can be used to implement what will be an extension of the safety advantage found in the application to HGVs.

ATB from George

Is it not down to the inadequacy of the driver (and to some extent the car) to cope, not the speed at which they are travelling causing accidents?

Why 50mph? Surely that's just an arbitrary number? Why not 49 or 51? Or is that down to the inadequate design of cars in not having big enough numbers on the speedos?

We all see stupid things by stupid drivers, whether involving excessive speed or simply ridiculously crap standards of driving. I'm not convinced that dropping the national speed limit to 50 mph and enforcing it is going to save money and result in appreciably fewer accidents. I know the A508 that DaveBK speaks of and the A605 the other side of Northampton into P'boro' is even worse! In putting up 'slow down' measures they've made what was a tedious single carriageway journey (of about 15 mins) into a soul destroying exercise, if (as is usual) stuck behind a slow moving HGV (especially uphill) or some kind of agricultural impediment (lasting at least twice as long).

Most cameras (including mobile ones) are usually on the few straight bits (that could otherwise be used to overtake), not on the bends or hills. They are also outside the small villages along the route or on the edge of them, not actually in them.

With the net result that frustrated drivers try ridiculous moves to get past and speed up their journey (all the accidents on the road seem to be collisions with oncoming traffic rather than falling off the road becasue of speed). Far better surely to spend the money on periodic road widening, speeding up traffic flow, to give them the opportunity to pass..?

This seems a system designed to penalise drivers, not encourage their safety.

Dear James,

Is there some difference in the inadequacy of a driver who drives so fast that he looses control of his vehicle, and one who looses control of his emtions, and consequently takes a dangerous manouvre which may just as likely [as in loosing control for speed reasons]involve someone else in an accident.

Frankly both types of driver stupidity should be discouraged with vigour, even if that means true life bans from driving for repeated dangerous driving.

ATB from George

If the money spent on these systems was spent on education, road maintainance and accident investigation/reduction I would think it a better spend.

Take the A49 from Ross to Shewsbury. There seems to be one or two black-spots that could be investigated and remedial measures put in place to resolve. Simple stuff like paying farmers to cut back hedges and deploying warning signs indicating a waiting car in a side road would be far more effective than just dropping the speed limit.

Where the limit has been dropped on the A417 from Gloucester to Ledbury nobody seems to bother slowing down.

Jono

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

But your idea of removing the driver from any responsibility for driving at all would be a very good long term aim, as most accidents are the result of human error, rather than mechanical or system failures in the vehicles involved.

I did not suggest removing drivers from any responsibility, quite the opposite in fact was my implication.

quote:

Yes, taking the driver out of the car would be a very good aim indeed, but it is not realistic yet.

Isn't it? Just remove those who cannot drive to a decent standard. Send them on a course (at their expense) and if they don't meet the requirements remove their licence. Dumbing down driving with driver's aids merely pushes the standard of driving ever lower.

quote:

Clearly governing vehicle speed beyond the possibility of adjustment by the driver has not proved dangerous for HGVs, and should be applied across the board to all road vehicles as soon as technologies can be used to implement what will be an extension of the safety advantage found in the application to HGVs.

ATB from George

Using the same criteria as used for HGVs based on Newton's Second Law of Motion (F = ma) will do nicely, thanks.


Cheers
Steve