Surround Sound Recordings and ARE they interesting?

I've only ever listened to a live recording of an Eagles gig in 5.1 on a friends set up, and to be honest, i didn't care for it.

I really like the Eagles, but i just didn't enjoy the fact the music was 'surrounding' me. Maybe it is dependent on what kind of music you are listening too, i would be very open to listening to a range on such a system, but i doubt that will happen for a while.

Does anyone else think there is something not very 'hifi' about music in 5.1?

quote:

Originally posted by Absolute:
Does anyone else think there is something not very 'hifi' about music in 5.1?

That would be me. 5.1 is a marketing stunt; it kills the music.

Here are some DVD-A titles that cover some of the musical spectrum. Like normal stereo recordings there are bound to be good and bad 5.1 disks. I think we are almost programmed into listening and thinking in stereo. I for one would like to hear a good 5.1 system with music I am familiar with and like Robert Fripp, hear something that I didn't know was there.

Here is a DVD-A review of In Absentia and an interview with Steven Wilson.

and...



Here is a DVD-A review of Everything Must Go.

Other Artist reviews are here, where I have just seen a thumbs up review of Billy Cobham - Spectrum.

I have quite a collection of SACD / DVD-A / DTS encoded disks. My interest stemmed from a time when I was living and working in california and the software was readily available.

Back in Europe I made the effort to continue on and actually invested in a dedicated Sony SACD ES series player which was a pretty classy CD spinner aswell.

I went to the trouble of establishing a good quality 5.1 system based on a matched set of B&W speakers, which could decode all the formats.

Time passed and Naim appeared on my horizon with really top quality stereo and CD replay. 5.1 has now been forsaken as a pure music producing format except for the occasional couple of hours when a wish to listen to something 'different' surfaces.

Vinyl replay was revisited after an absence of 20 years and found to be startlingly good and has persisted to the point where it is my prime source of replay backed up by CD.

So..what do I think . 5.1 audio is an 'esperience'. At its best it has fidelity but you don't get a connection in the same way as with quality stereo. The peculiarity of being in the middle of the musicians cannot be submerged it just keeps grabbing your attention as 'wrong'. A lot of the multichannel discs have alternate stereo tracks and some are very high potential quality produced as for example on
at 192Khz/24 bit resolution.

I say potential quality because IMO they still are not definitively better than standard stereo. I have 'everything must go' on Vinyl and thats the one I play because it is more aproachable at an emotional level than even the 192Khz version.

I feel the most approachable way to listen to the advanced formats is via the stereo tracks and that brings us back round to whether the efforts of a universal disc player extracting music from SACD or DVD-A can stand against a Naim CDS3 for example to which my answer is no.

In other words multichannel music is for me a musical novelty but just for fun and not for a serious musical experience.

regards
geoff

As usual, Geoff has given a very comprehensive and thoughtful reply, most of which I agree with. The sensation of having odd bits of musical information flying at you from all points of the compass is quite novel at first, but disconcerting and distracting after a while.

Maybe the only exception is with live recordings which, if properly mixed, pick up the ambience of the venue and the subtle noises of the audience around you. I enjoy the surround sound on music DVDs mainly for this effect, which if well handled can immerse you in the live experience in a very satisfying way.

So much is down to the way the disc has been produced, and the added complexities created my multichannels; it’s hard enough getting a decent sound mix from two channels, let alone from six or even eight, and drama and gimmicky sound steering effects always take precedence over subtlety. Sorry Denis, good though “Lightbulb Sun” is in it’s 5.1 version, it also suffers in this regard. Stick with CD! (or preferably vinyl of course...)

There’s enormous potential for superlative sound from multichannel. If, say, a small quartet was playing in front of you in your living room, sound would be reflected around the room in a totally different way to that from two speakers and would in theory be more realistically reproduced by a series of speakers, properly calibrated and equalised for the particular room, that could then accurately handle the very subtle sounds required. Being an optimist by nature, I believe the kit and the media for this will eventually become available.

Another complication I have in trying to assess CD stereo against multichannel - source for stereo is a 555 player into a 552 preamp, 2xNAP 500s and active SL2s; that for multichannel a (highly laudable) Oppo Universal disc player into the analogue multichannels of an AV2, then the 500/AV2s for L &R, NAP 145/axess for centre, and NAP150/n-Sats for surrounds. Playing a CD through the Oppo/AV2 doesn’t sound a patch on the 555/552 - how could it? So it can’t ever be an accurate comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by DenisA:


Here is a DVD-A review of In Absentia and an interview with Steven Wilson.

and...



Here is a DVD-A review of Everything Must Go.

Other Artist reviews are here, where I have just seen a thumbs up review of Billy Cobham - Spectrum.

Hi Denis

I guess 5.1 is to a degree a format you love or (mebbe's not hate) but don't like ....I'm pretty much a Surround Saddoe I'm afraid and have only heard PT's Lightbulb Sun, FOABP, and Stupid Dream in their surround formats.

I suppose it's hard to argue that hearing the music coming at you from all around ain't really accurate ...but given most of the albums we are talking about here are studio efforts which are tweaked and mixed to within an inch of their lives what really does "accurate" mean?

PT's Lightbulb Sun is a rather aggressive surround mix (ie rear channel info is obvious and isn't just ambience) Steve Wilson obviously thinks pretty deeply about how the 5.1 versions will sound and I particulary like the way a good DVD-A (like Lightbulb Sun) pumps out the throbbing bass lines through my sub-woofer (oo-er I'm obviously not a purist!) On "Four Chords That Made a Million" Wilson has the vocals echoing around the front and back speakers which to me suits the track very well.
On "Hatesong" good use of rear percussive effects are noticeable but when the guitars rev up all 4 speakers are utilised which to me suits PT's penchant for building up drama within many of their songs.

(More Porcupine 5.1 thoughts to come when I've re-listened to the others to refresh my fading old memory!)

Billy Cobham's Spectrum is an album I've cherised since release so I was dying to get hold of the DVD-A version - which does sound crackin'! Played loud the ambience of Billy's thunderous stick work + Tommy Bolin's excellent guitar playing work's a treat.

For me ALL Steely Dan's DVD-A's sound fantastic inc "Everything Must Go" but ironically the DTS version of Gaucho is my particular fave ...I love the way the girls sing "Babylon Sister's Shake it!" which is heard fairly isolated at the rear of the soundfield before Donald's lead vocal re-appears at the front ...it's as if I'm sitting in the middle of the studio as the band are running through it...accurate? again mebbe's not but hell it works for me!

As for old classics presented in 5.1 - ok some don't really work for me (like a few of the Stone's albums) but some (The Who's "Tommy" comes to mind) sound invigorated and are at the very least a valid way of hearing certain things within a recording which are not really noticeable in plain old stereo.

And then there's all those 70's 4 channel Quad mixes ...erm' I think I'll leave it there for now!

Geoff, Tony, Jet,

Thanks very much for the replies and reviews. I had a feeling that 5.1 would have a job to convince the listener when comparing against the stereo version. It would seem that Jet is more convinced than G&T and has embraced the surround sound effect for entertainment. There are many factors to get the 5.1 mix 'right' and the source music of course. There is no right or wrong here, but I do feel that our brains need to be trained to adjust when sitting in the 'middle'. I look forward to a follow up review from Jet.

I'll bring along my PT/no-man DVD-A disks for Tony at the BBQ (to try at home if you wish).

It would also be interesting to hear from Naim (Simon?) their opinions on DVD-A music disks. Also what disks might have been used during the n-Vi development listening sessions.

Thanks for the offer Denis. I've since given the 5.1 "Lightbulb Sun" another outing, and it's pretty good! The various 5.1 mixes are so different from each other. some would have more instant impact, others are more subtle.

Anyway, you'd be very welcome to come over for a listen any time. PM me.

What about if you enjoy music that is ambient techno?

Examples include: The Orb, FSOL.

These are great recordings extremely high fidelity - compared to such a majority of other CDs that I've heard, and the surround effect must really enhance the music.

I really wish I had a good SACD player and amplification that matched my CDS3+252+300 and put the sound in 5.1, so the music I have of this sort can be listened that way!!!!!

Jon