Budget equipment rack advice needed

Recently, all the kit sat on a z stand.

IMHO the lp12 does ok on the older SO, but I wouldn't advise naim electronics on the new 'z' stands.

Check out BASE in other stand threads here. Got it now and luvin' it!

Cheers,
jim

ps: put the TT on m*n*

[This message was edited by jcc on WEDNESDAY 16 January 2002 at 00:37.]

If you don't, you'd be better selling some of it...

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

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With your equipment, you should spend a lot more than $500.

If you don't, you'd be better selling some of it...

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Interesting. This then begs the question - If you have X dollars in equipment, what fraction of that amount should be invested in the stands?

I had assumed with my collection of equipment, $500 was an appropriate amount to budget.

Erik

I'll try again tomorrow; I better get away from the computer befor I throw it off a cliff.

BTW, what are you using now?

Alex

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My Lp12 resided on a SO wall mount for 11 years or so and then on to a two tier floor stand(both discontinued now). I still own the two tier FWIW.

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The Sound Organisation fully welded stands (like the ZO21) are NOT DISCONTINUED, I bought a 2-tier a couple of months ago. Give them a call (website www.soundorg.co.uk and they are also a hi-fi shop). They are in the UK, so be aware of timezone differences and you may have to add $30 or so for shipping.

You may have to wait a month for them as they usually send a bulk order to fabri-weld. IMHO, SO tables offer fantastic value for money, while having a very musical sound.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
The frightening thing is not dying
The frightening thing is not living

Thanks for the good advice that many have provided; I do appreciate your suggestions and will have fun researching this issue further (and even more fun listening to my kit on a real support).

Keep the suggestions coming.

Erik

My information came from The Sound Organisation in the US. This was in a packet from them (Jan 3,'02):

"Sound Organisation no longer make the Z021 turntable stand which many of you miss, try two Q4 shelves with Q256 spacing looks and sounds way better. Also the Quadraspire wall shelf will take care of installations where the Z022 was previously used."

They have also removed them from the US price sheet.

Maybe they will still be available in the UK.
I agree the welded stands are a great value.

Regards,
Jim

[This message was edited by jcc on TUESDAY 15 January 2002 at 18:41.]

DCS

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Mind you if its a very old sideboard (like an antique one!) it might be worth more than all the kit put together - so then you could sell it and buy yourself a whole pile of M*n*, H*T**r, Q**d**sp**e, etc., etc, and still have change to buy a 'new' sideboard from M*I, H**it** or *ke*.

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Very pragmatic suggestion. Unfortunately, the sideboard has been passed down in my wife's family several generations. I wonder if she would notice ... Does M*n* make anything in an antique walnut finish?

Erik

Then I will be able to tell you whether the Quadraspire Reference MkII is good or not.

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

QS&D HF-268- Made by the American Spendor/Quad distributor. Light and rigid, nonferrous 'cept for the spikes. Softer sounding, but still competent. Won't clash with your 50's leisure lounge. $299

Atlantis Reference- It doesn't look like it should work (seems wobbly), but it does a nice job for $475. Doesn't kill prat. Faster transients than the HF-268.

Any fully welded Standesign or Target @ $300-400.
I'm satisfied with my Standesign. If you go this route, opt for the Penta as opposed to the sloping "Design" series. Down the road you can add Neuance shelves for the sources and have a real winner for relative peanuts.

HF-268

Atlantis Ref

Standesign w/Neuance

I think that many of us here still remember when they climbed down out of the trees of system setup ignorance, and were enlightened by what was possible by merely getting ones kit off of the furniture.

It has been my experience that most who fall into this camp are not rack obsessed, yet they appreciate the effect that racks have upon system performance. I am talking about audiophiles that remember when mid-sided 'bookshelf' speakers sat directly on the floors in dealers showrooms and the Sound Organisation was yet to become a dealership on the banks of the Thames.

Those that do not (yet) use Mana, Fraim, Base, Quadraspire etc. do, I imagine, still enjoy the sound from their systems. I know that I do, very much.

My point is that Dr. E, and many others here, may wish to just take things one step at a time. Some may prefer to just stop in a nice spot along the way and settle there. Others may want to push the envelope to the outer frontiers of tweakdom.

We are not all the same and certainly none of us is perfect. So why should we try and force others to be the same as ourselves and to like what we like.

The good Dr. wants some budget stand recommendations not exceeding $US 500. Can you lot come up with some without turning this into another one of those f'ing threads, or not?

Craig
I vote for some of those stools that table dancers carry around above their heads. Spiked of course!

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1) Am I correct in saying that, if it wasn't made of steel/metal and the shelves de-coupled (a la Quadraspire for example), wouldn't it be less susceptible to ringing?

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IMHO, the lowermost shelf is always the least susceptible to vibration, regardless of material.

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2) Isn't the fact that it's made from ferrous metals (if it is) a big no no as far as achieving the best sound quality is concerned. Here in the UK, this phenomenon is much recognised by equipment support manufacturers as being responsible for degrading sound quality. Or do you not believe in any of that?

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I haven't any experience with ferrous/nonferrous comparos, so I haven't mentioned any of that. FWIW, I've heard a non-ferrous rack (that HF-268) a number of times, and there weren't any blinding revelations (probably more due the the rack design, not the material). I accept the theories of a non-ferrous environment, I just haven't gotten to that yet!

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3) What's the mains distribution unit/leads being used in the photo?

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A local, home made jobbie. They're the equivalent of the US Wiremold strip, apparently. Naim users in these parts use these. I'll look at it in more detail in the "wiring" section of the site, soon. Cost about 65UKP.

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4) The Neuance supports intrigue me. What are they made from and what are their basic design principles?

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It's good stuff. Improved the Standesign immensely. I don't know what they're made of (some sort of laminate construction), but they're extremely stiff and lightweight. AFAIK, it dissipates vibration in the quickest manner possible, as opposed to a heavier structure (MDF, marble or any American turntable) which tends to store and/or oppress vibrations by sheer force.
All layman's talk, really. I'm not an engineer

cheers,

mike

I recall Ken Lyon describing his Neuance shelves as being somewhat in the Torlyte camp i.e. an outer laminate sheathing over a light expanding urethane foam core that is loaded with certain solids to give it broadband damping properties.

Constrained layer damping was mentioned as one of the physical properties of the design. Although he could very well have been referring to the construction of the Lack as I had asked him a question about that giant killer of a stand.

I intend to try a Neuance on my turntable SOT. Do you happen to recall what your landed Canadian price was?

Craig

• Standesign Penta.
  
• Modify the Penta with spikes on the lower four shelves as per Mike Sae's website instructions.
  
• Neuance platforms for the LP12 and CD3.5.
  
• Neuance the other lower shelves as necessary.
  

From my perspective, this seems like a good way to go - sure hope it sounds better than the old sideboard (with a Hi-Cap sitting on top of the CD3.5 ).

Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions.

Erik

Erik-
Congrats, that's a sweet deal. Now comes the wait! Do let us know how it all sounds when it's all in.

Craig-

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I recall Ken Lyon describing his Neuance shelves as being somewhat in the Torlyte camp

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I believe that Ken uses Mana with his Neuance in place of the glass as well. Could this be the start of a trend?

BTW, Torlyte has been with us as an audio accessory since the early '80s. It first appeared under the RATA brand as a stand alone sub-platform with adjustable pip like feet and as a Sound Org replacement shelf. Russ Andrews (RATA) later made some interesting looking racks and speaker stands out of it as well (including Isobarik and Sara models).

Craig
PS. Have you noticed our friend Jean doing the cabinet shuffle this week?

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BTW, Torlyte has been with us as an audio accessory since the early '80s.

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Ah, I stand corrected.

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PS. Have you noticed our friend Jean doing the cabinet shuffle this week?

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Yes, I saw Manley's smiling mug in the National Post today. Don't pay too much attention to National politics, it's all so surreal. You're lucky you don't live in BC, the Libs just cut 9000+ jobs today.

On that note,

cheers

mike

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Originally posted by Mike Sae:
IIRC, Ken's been making Neuance for 10+ years, so perhaps Torlyte is somewhat in the Neuance camp

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As Craig pointed out, Russ' first Torlyte support probably preceeded Neuance by several years.I started out with my own low mass experiments in the goober-fi wilds of North America back in 1986 well before the term PRaT had even been coined. The first production Neuance wasn't sold until the following year.That makes this year Neuance's 15th anniversary.

Best,
Ken

[This message was edited by Ken Lyon on FRIDAY 18 January 2002 at 12:15.]

Steady on, and a profitable 2002 to you.

Craig