Earthing
Posted by: StephenK on 09 April 2009
Hallo!
Reading several posts about the earthing principle I am a little confused, maybe someone can clarify.
As I understand correct earthing is important with Naim, and Naim equipment has a strict earthing path. Originally the earthing reference was the preamp's power supply, e.g. HiCap or Poweramp. Recently I read that the earthing now goes via the CD Player, which, if I understand correctly, is now the reference. It was also mentioned that it is not a good idea to connect two naim CD players at the same Preamp for earthing reasons.
Does this mean that if a new CD player is connected to e.g. a chrome bumper 32 with Hicap, there are two earthing paths?
Does this further mean that there are compromises when old an new boxes are combined, has the Hicap changed? Are two spurs when old with new is mixed better, while one spur is better with the same generation?
Or is it something completely different with correct earthing?
Stephen
Reading several posts about the earthing principle I am a little confused, maybe someone can clarify.
As I understand correct earthing is important with Naim, and Naim equipment has a strict earthing path. Originally the earthing reference was the preamp's power supply, e.g. HiCap or Poweramp. Recently I read that the earthing now goes via the CD Player, which, if I understand correctly, is now the reference. It was also mentioned that it is not a good idea to connect two naim CD players at the same Preamp for earthing reasons.
Does this mean that if a new CD player is connected to e.g. a chrome bumper 32 with Hicap, there are two earthing paths?
Does this further mean that there are compromises when old an new boxes are combined, has the Hicap changed? Are two spurs when old with new is mixed better, while one spur is better with the same generation?
Or is it something completely different with correct earthing?
Stephen
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Guido Fawkes
This a good question - sorry I can't answer it, but am interested in the answer. I understood my system was earthed through my 555PS; although as its Power-Line goes in to the same power block as my other Naim kit then isn't the earthing dependent on the power block?
Also some Naim users don't have a CDP - some are vinyl only and others use computer audio - it is very confusing.
I'd still like advice on a decent power block to use with Power-Lines as I still don't know which ones to try. I figured a UK designed and built one would be better as the makers are more likely to have developed it with the national grid in mind, but this may be a naive assumption.
ATB Rotf
Also some Naim users don't have a CDP - some are vinyl only and others use computer audio - it is very confusing.
I'd still like advice on a decent power block to use with Power-Lines as I still don't know which ones to try. I figured a UK designed and built one would be better as the makers are more likely to have developed it with the national grid in mind, but this may be a naive assumption.
ATB Rotf
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Geoff P
As I understand it there are two 'earths' in discussion here which are not the same thing.
One is the Signal earth which is the one which derives from a central reference which is nominally the CD player. Internally in the pre-amp the signal earths are all starred together as part of this philosiphy.
Then there is earth of your Mains which is not under the control of or exactly specified by naim and is installed to meet house wiring regulations wherever this may be. Certainly a good earth point is desireable and people often install earthing rods specific to a dedicated mains spur they have installed to supply their naim kit. Power blocks are earthed thru' this just as wall plugs are. The specific make of power block chosen is typically differentiated by how the individual sockets are linked internally and the materials used which can contribute a unique signature to the sound...or not dependent on personal view.
In the end both earths are dependent on the specific configuration of your house electrical installation.
regards
Geoff
One is the Signal earth which is the one which derives from a central reference which is nominally the CD player. Internally in the pre-amp the signal earths are all starred together as part of this philosiphy.
Then there is earth of your Mains which is not under the control of or exactly specified by naim and is installed to meet house wiring regulations wherever this may be. Certainly a good earth point is desireable and people often install earthing rods specific to a dedicated mains spur they have installed to supply their naim kit. Power blocks are earthed thru' this just as wall plugs are. The specific make of power block chosen is typically differentiated by how the individual sockets are linked internally and the materials used which can contribute a unique signature to the sound...or not dependent on personal view.
In the end both earths are dependent on the specific configuration of your house electrical installation.
regards
Geoff
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Guido Fawkes
Thanks Geoff - great explanation.
I still don't know what to plug my Power-Line in to though - seems silly to audition mains blocks - and the prices are bizarre - I've seen one (Octopus) that guarantees no filtering at all for £1800
The Kemp Electronics stuff looks pretty good, but is it really for Holland rather than UK.
I give up - I'll stay with the Black Widow for now.
ATB Rotf
I still don't know what to plug my Power-Line in to though - seems silly to audition mains blocks - and the prices are bizarre - I've seen one (Octopus) that guarantees no filtering at all for £1800
The Kemp Electronics stuff looks pretty good, but is it really for Holland rather than UK.
I give up - I'll stay with the Black Widow for now.
ATB Rotf
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by pcstockton
VERY interesting discussion.
I have never been able to coax ananswer on this from anyone including peeps at NANA (then).
It sounds like it is either a mystery, a secret, or not understood by anyone.
1) How does one ensure proper earthing in any possible arrangement?
2) How is the "quality" of the mains ground ascertained? Referring to the "good earth point". Isn't it either grounded or not? Are there degrees of grounded-ness?
3) If I dont have a Naim CDP (which is the ONLY CDP i was told would guarantee a proper arrangement), how can I ground my kit? For example, I was told Arcam has a "floating" ground and wouldn't work.
4) How does a TT ground the Kit? And how can I achieve that? (its more likely I buy a TT than ANY CDP).
5) If you have both a TT and a CDP are you creating loops?
6) Without a CDP or TT am I even grounded?
There must be something more definitive than being told to connect a wire from the case of my 102 to my Beresford DAC..... which I did and still had a slight buzz.
Why does it seem that Naim is the only mfg that has these problems?
A good friend just bought some new Naim and it is unusable in his apartment (NYC). Both loud ground loop hums and serious RFI.
We have joked that at least he gets free radio without having to buy a tuner!!!
I have never been able to coax ananswer on this from anyone including peeps at NANA (then).
It sounds like it is either a mystery, a secret, or not understood by anyone.
1) How does one ensure proper earthing in any possible arrangement?
2) How is the "quality" of the mains ground ascertained? Referring to the "good earth point". Isn't it either grounded or not? Are there degrees of grounded-ness?
3) If I dont have a Naim CDP (which is the ONLY CDP i was told would guarantee a proper arrangement), how can I ground my kit? For example, I was told Arcam has a "floating" ground and wouldn't work.
4) How does a TT ground the Kit? And how can I achieve that? (its more likely I buy a TT than ANY CDP).
5) If you have both a TT and a CDP are you creating loops?
6) Without a CDP or TT am I even grounded?
There must be something more definitive than being told to connect a wire from the case of my 102 to my Beresford DAC..... which I did and still had a slight buzz.
Why does it seem that Naim is the only mfg that has these problems?
A good friend just bought some new Naim and it is unusable in his apartment (NYC). Both loud ground loop hums and serious RFI.
We have joked that at least he gets free radio without having to buy a tuner!!!
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by DaveBk
Earthing does get rather complex, so I'll add my views to the debate:
In the UK most relatively new properties get their mains earth connection from the electrical supplier rather than from a local earth rod. The wire from the nearest sub-station has only 2 conductors: the Live and a combined Neutral/Earth. The earth and neutral are separated at the main supply fuse before the meter and are then fed as separate wires to the consumer unit. This approach provides a very low impedence earth path back to the substation transformer so in the event of a fault (e.g. live wire touches case) enough current flows to quickly blow the fuse or trip a circuit breaker. RCD's make things even safer by tripping if there is even a very small differnece in the current flowing from live to neutral (e.g. because someones touched the live and some current is flowing through them to earth!) 30mA is the typical tripping current, which is 1000 times less current than it will take to trip a circuit breaker. It's important to remember that the RCDs job is to protect people from electrocution, the fuse or curcuit breaker protects from fire caused by too much current flowing if there is a short circuit somewhere.
All of this is about safety, not about the performance of HiFi. From a HiFi perspective you need two things - a very stable earth that has no interference, and only one earth point to avoid earth loops. To acheive the first, some people suggest a separate earth rod for the HiFi, but this is certainly a higher impedence back to the substation so diminishes the protection mentioned above and is therefore very suspect when it comes to the latest regulations (and absolutely must use an RCD unless you want to end up as toast!) A better (safer) method is a dedicated radial. The second point is where Naim are more fussy than many manufacturers and do their best to provide a single earth point in the source. It's this point where signal earth connects to real(mains)earth and acts as a stable reverence point for all other signals in the system.
In the UK most relatively new properties get their mains earth connection from the electrical supplier rather than from a local earth rod. The wire from the nearest sub-station has only 2 conductors: the Live and a combined Neutral/Earth. The earth and neutral are separated at the main supply fuse before the meter and are then fed as separate wires to the consumer unit. This approach provides a very low impedence earth path back to the substation transformer so in the event of a fault (e.g. live wire touches case) enough current flows to quickly blow the fuse or trip a circuit breaker. RCD's make things even safer by tripping if there is even a very small differnece in the current flowing from live to neutral (e.g. because someones touched the live and some current is flowing through them to earth!) 30mA is the typical tripping current, which is 1000 times less current than it will take to trip a circuit breaker. It's important to remember that the RCDs job is to protect people from electrocution, the fuse or curcuit breaker protects from fire caused by too much current flowing if there is a short circuit somewhere.
All of this is about safety, not about the performance of HiFi. From a HiFi perspective you need two things - a very stable earth that has no interference, and only one earth point to avoid earth loops. To acheive the first, some people suggest a separate earth rod for the HiFi, but this is certainly a higher impedence back to the substation so diminishes the protection mentioned above and is therefore very suspect when it comes to the latest regulations (and absolutely must use an RCD unless you want to end up as toast!) A better (safer) method is a dedicated radial. The second point is where Naim are more fussy than many manufacturers and do their best to provide a single earth point in the source. It's this point where signal earth connects to real(mains)earth and acts as a stable reverence point for all other signals in the system.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by DaveBk:
It's this point where signal earth connects to real(mains)earth and acts as a stable reverence point for all other signals in the system.
OK, so exactly how does one achieve this. And how do you know when you have done so?
thanks for the explanation and help!
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Adam Meredith
Some supplied answers:
"q 1) How does one ensure proper earthing in any possible arrangement?
a 1) depends on the system, house, country, etc., so no one answer.
q 2) How is the "quality" of the mains ground ascertained? Referring to the "good earth point". Isn't it either grounded or not? Are there degrees of grounded-ness?
a 2) Yes, and the only way to get it checked is with a meter some decent electricians have. That's why watering a ground spike in dry weather makes the system sound much better.
q 3) If I don't have a Naim CDP (which is the ONLY CDP I was told would guarantee a proper arrangement), how can I ground my kit? For example, I was told Arcam has a "floating" ground and wouldn't work.
a 3) Take a wire from the t2 point on the pre amp to the mains earth pin of a plug or (in the UK) one of the screws holding the socket to the wall.
q 4) How does a TT ground the Kit? And how can I achieve that? (its more likely I buy a TT than ANY CDP).
a 4) Most TT will have the chassis and arm earth lead connected to mains earth, so connecting them to the pre amp t2 will give the system a mains earth.
q 5) If you have both a TT and a CDP are you creating loops?
a 5) Yes could be, but it depends on the particular units involved.
q 6) Without a CDP or TT am I even grounded?
a 6) No, unless there's a connection from another source (some TV's, most PC's (but not laptops), etc.)
Naim is not the only company to have the problems, any decent hifi will have the same issues it's just that most companies don't go for the last 10% of performance."
"q 1) How does one ensure proper earthing in any possible arrangement?
a 1) depends on the system, house, country, etc., so no one answer.
q 2) How is the "quality" of the mains ground ascertained? Referring to the "good earth point". Isn't it either grounded or not? Are there degrees of grounded-ness?
a 2) Yes, and the only way to get it checked is with a meter some decent electricians have. That's why watering a ground spike in dry weather makes the system sound much better.
q 3) If I don't have a Naim CDP (which is the ONLY CDP I was told would guarantee a proper arrangement), how can I ground my kit? For example, I was told Arcam has a "floating" ground and wouldn't work.
a 3) Take a wire from the t2 point on the pre amp to the mains earth pin of a plug or (in the UK) one of the screws holding the socket to the wall.
q 4) How does a TT ground the Kit? And how can I achieve that? (its more likely I buy a TT than ANY CDP).
a 4) Most TT will have the chassis and arm earth lead connected to mains earth, so connecting them to the pre amp t2 will give the system a mains earth.
q 5) If you have both a TT and a CDP are you creating loops?
a 5) Yes could be, but it depends on the particular units involved.
q 6) Without a CDP or TT am I even grounded?
a 6) No, unless there's a connection from another source (some TV's, most PC's (but not laptops), etc.)
Naim is not the only company to have the problems, any decent hifi will have the same issues it's just that most companies don't go for the last 10% of performance."
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
Some supplied answers:
q 3) If I don't have a Naim CDP (which is the ONLY CDP I was told would guarantee a proper arrangement), how can I ground my kit? For example, I was told Arcam has a "floating" ground and wouldn't work.
a 3) Take a wire from the t2 point on the pre amp to the mains earth pin of a plug or (in the UK) one of the screws holding the socket to the wall.
Is it really a good idea to encourage the possible connection of a high impedance path to earth from a piece of your equipment.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by pcstockton
Many thanks Adam... Much more than I have ever been given before.
Please excuse my ignorance... What/where is the "t2 Point"
And by "Mains Earth Pin" are you referring to single "round" pin on the picture below?
What kind of "wire"? Do I use to make the connection?
I assume my shit Beresford, which doesn't even have a three prong power cable can matter in this scenario?
Lastly, when I get a Naim DAC this summer, will it take care of my earthing needs?
thanks again!
-P
Please excuse my ignorance... What/where is the "t2 Point"
And by "Mains Earth Pin" are you referring to single "round" pin on the picture below?
What kind of "wire"? Do I use to make the connection?
I assume my shit Beresford, which doesn't even have a three prong power cable can matter in this scenario?
Lastly, when I get a Naim DAC this summer, will it take care of my earthing needs?
thanks again!
-P
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by pcstockton
Can i expect an increase in performance by connecting this wire and thus grounding this correctly? I will get this done tonight...
Oh, and does it matter which power cable I attach the wire to? 180 and NAPSC, are the only options, which plug into my Wiremold.
OR is it best to use the plug on the wiremold itself.
Thanks again..... excited I have some good answers and things to try.
Oh, and does it matter which power cable I attach the wire to? 180 and NAPSC, are the only options, which plug into my Wiremold.
OR is it best to use the plug on the wiremold itself.
Thanks again..... excited I have some good answers and things to try.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Stuart M
Pandora - box - anyone?
This looks like a minefield - I sorted mine out with one consumer unit supplying AV equipment and another for the house. And I'm sure better earthing could be done, everything is so close I'm not going to put in the effort I'd rather listen to my new Album.
This looks like a minefield - I sorted mine out with one consumer unit supplying AV equipment and another for the house. And I'm sure better earthing could be done, everything is so close I'm not going to put in the effort I'd rather listen to my new Album.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by pcstockton
Stuart,
Not sure what you are getting at. I am simply trying to connect signal ground to mains ground in one location.... right?
Since no CDP nor TT, I am not grounded and trying to be so.
Not sure what you are getting at. I am simply trying to connect signal ground to mains ground in one location.... right?
Since no CDP nor TT, I am not grounded and trying to be so.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
Please excuse my ignorance...
1: What/where is the "t2 Point"
2: And by "Mains Earth Pin" are you referring to single "round" pin on the picture below?
3: What kind of "wire"? Do I use to make the connection?
4: I assume my shit Beresford, which doesn't even have a three prong power cable can matter in this scenario?
5: Lastly, when I get a Naim DAC this summer, will it take care of my earthing needs?
1: The preamplifier Turntable Earth connector (see illustration for SuperNait).
2: Not really - the observations mainly refer to UK mains leads where the plug is separate from the cable.
With these one can easily (and safely) gain access to an attachment point on the Earth pin.
You could not make a safe connection to YOUR illustrated earth pin. You would need to access the mains earth through a non-moulded plug. You need to confirm for yourself which is earth.
3: As your Naim equipment is already (must be) safety earthed this is a signal connection. You might as well make it with normal mains cable - such as used for the safety earth.
4: "I assume my Beresford ... can matter in this ...?" isn't English.
However, if it hasn't got 3 pin plug then it cannot offer a connection between signal and mains safety earth - as it hasn't got a mains (safety) earth connection.
5: I don't know.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by Mark Dunn
OK, I'm going to muddy the waters here...
With just a TT (Armageddon / LP12 in my case) there is (or rather, was) a ground wire from one of the front chassis bolts of the LP12 that is supposed to go to the ground point on the preamp. However, since the big thick yellow and green ground lead from the output side of the Armageddon is also attached to the same chassis bolt, - thus grounding the chassis too, - it would cause a ground loop. I have only the Armageddon ground connection in place now, and yes you can hear subtle improvements.
However, the ARO also has a flying earth lead, but this is NOT a signal ground, - it's just to ground the arm to prevent static, RFI, etc. With an ARO the four leads from the cartridge carry +/- left channel and +/- right channel and these signal lines remain unmolested all the way through the amplification system. In my system, as far as I can ascertain from external probing with a DVM, the signal ground is in the Hi-Cap.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
PS. Some external phono pre-amps connect the negative / ground of their RCA input / output phono plugs to their chassis, which can confuse matters further. My DV-P75 does not do this.
With just a TT (Armageddon / LP12 in my case) there is (or rather, was) a ground wire from one of the front chassis bolts of the LP12 that is supposed to go to the ground point on the preamp. However, since the big thick yellow and green ground lead from the output side of the Armageddon is also attached to the same chassis bolt, - thus grounding the chassis too, - it would cause a ground loop. I have only the Armageddon ground connection in place now, and yes you can hear subtle improvements.
However, the ARO also has a flying earth lead, but this is NOT a signal ground, - it's just to ground the arm to prevent static, RFI, etc. With an ARO the four leads from the cartridge carry +/- left channel and +/- right channel and these signal lines remain unmolested all the way through the amplification system. In my system, as far as I can ascertain from external probing with a DVM, the signal ground is in the Hi-Cap.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
PS. Some external phono pre-amps connect the negative / ground of their RCA input / output phono plugs to their chassis, which can confuse matters further. My DV-P75 does not do this.
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by busaganashi
I've got a Michell Orbe SE with a technoarm. The arm has a ground wire coming out of it. I have that connected to my Superline. Should I have it connected the preamp instead?
I'm assuming an HDX will work just as good as a CD player for signal grounding purposes?
I'm assuming an HDX will work just as good as a CD player for signal grounding purposes?
Posted on: 09 April 2009 by DrMark
I had a serious ground/earthing issue hooking up a rubbish level Philips DVD player to a Nait 5i. The DVD player did not even have a 3-prong plug. As a test, I put a "cheater plug" on the Nait, and it greatly reduced the hum (could only be heard at high volume with no source on), but I was not going to leave it that way. I also tried connecting the DVD to different wall outlets to no effect.
I used to have in that same DVD player my old main system (CDX/72/HC/250) and never had any issue with 60 cycle hum. Since it was the only input on the Nait, I was pretty much told by NANA that I was out of luck...apparently the CDX provided the earth connection to the whole system in the old arrangement. I never did try to attach the DVD to the Nait while a Naim CD palyer was also connected...and my kit has changed since then so I cannot test. (The Nait is gone.)
I am about to get an Arcam DVD player for my new main system (CD5X/FC2x/XS) and hope that I do not end up with the same problem as with the cheap model - has anyone tried this ype of arrangement? Or am I headed for disappointment?
I used to have in that same DVD player my old main system (CDX/72/HC/250) and never had any issue with 60 cycle hum. Since it was the only input on the Nait, I was pretty much told by NANA that I was out of luck...apparently the CDX provided the earth connection to the whole system in the old arrangement. I never did try to attach the DVD to the Nait while a Naim CD palyer was also connected...and my kit has changed since then so I cannot test. (The Nait is gone.)
I am about to get an Arcam DVD player for my new main system (CD5X/FC2x/XS) and hope that I do not end up with the same problem as with the cheap model - has anyone tried this ype of arrangement? Or am I headed for disappointment?
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by dallas
As some of you might remember in another thread,I also had the low level buzz/hum thru my speakers.
after messing around a bit with all cables and takeing a look for breaks etc in my snaicetc,i still have the buzz. i HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT.
my question is i guess ,will this buzz/hum do any harm to the drivers in my speakers?
i will be kooking into getting an electrician in to run me some dedicated wires to my listening spot so maybe that will help.
regards, Dallas
after messing around a bit with all cables and takeing a look for breaks etc in my snaicetc,i still have the buzz. i HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT.
my question is i guess ,will this buzz/hum do any harm to the drivers in my speakers?
i will be kooking into getting an electrician in to run me some dedicated wires to my listening spot so maybe that will help.
regards, Dallas
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
1: The preamplifier Turntable Earth connector (see illustration for SuperNait).
2: Not really - You would need to access the mains earth through a non-moulded plug. You need to confirm for yourself which is earth.
3: As your Naim equipment is already (must be) safety earthed this is a signal connection. You might as well make it with normal mains cable - such as used for the safety earth.
5: I don't know.
Adam, again I really appreciate your help and guidance.
1) So on the 102 I would be connecting to the "threaded" ground between my BNCs?
2) I am not quite understanding exactly how to achieve this?
I use a Tibia from the Wiremold to the 180. Should I ditch the Tibia and find something with a removable plug? Any suggestions?
then...
3) I am somehow taking both plugs off the end of a "Mains" cable and attaching it from the 102 ground to the Mains cable ground?
Could I make this "signal ground cable" with my current Tibia? I assume I would cut of the ends, access the wire(s) and attach to my "new" cable with a removable plug?
This is all very foreign to me....
Or is it an option to buy a new Tibia, cut the plugs off, then connect it between my 102 phono ground and the wall socket ground screw?
Am I understanding this at all??? Once again, I really appreciate the help.
Lastly, 5) Do you not know re: the nDAC because it doesn't exist yet?
-p
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by dave simpson
1. yes
2. In the US, the AC wall outlet coverplate screw connects to ground as it threads into the outlet's grounded metal chassis. Simply run a bit of wire with appropriate connectors (open-ended spades would be a good choice) from the 102's ground screw described in #1 above to the wall outlet coverplate screw.
2. In the US, the AC wall outlet coverplate screw connects to ground as it threads into the outlet's grounded metal chassis. Simply run a bit of wire with appropriate connectors (open-ended spades would be a good choice) from the 102's ground screw described in #1 above to the wall outlet coverplate screw.
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by pcstockton
Dave,
Perfect.... that is easily done.
Is there any specific type, gauge, kind, brand of wire I should use?
Would a speaker cable work?
Should I use and extension cord or something?
Thanks again for the assistance.
-p
Perfect.... that is easily done.
Is there any specific type, gauge, kind, brand of wire I should use?
Would a speaker cable work?
Should I use and extension cord or something?
Thanks again for the assistance.
-p
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by dave simpson
Hi PC,
I'd say any speaker cable or 16 or 18 gauge lamp cord lying about would be fine--judge by the connectors you'll use.
regards,
dave
I'd say any speaker cable or 16 or 18 gauge lamp cord lying about would be fine--judge by the connectors you'll use.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by pcstockton
Thanks Dave. Thanks alot.
Padded Cell? Really?
Didn't know this was a taboo/non-hifi subject.
Why shouldn't I be able to learn how to correctly earth my kit without the presence of a Naim CDP.
Anyway.... thanks again for all who helped with this. I suppose I will try something and keep the results to myself.
Sorry for mucking up the forum with such unimportant matters.
Padded Cell? Really?
Didn't know this was a taboo/non-hifi subject.
Why shouldn't I be able to learn how to correctly earth my kit without the presence of a Naim CDP.
Anyway.... thanks again for all who helped with this. I suppose I will try something and keep the results to myself.
Sorry for mucking up the forum with such unimportant matters.
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by Mark Dunn
PC,
I know you were being flip' but you're right to ask as the various grounding techniques can have a large impact.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
quote:Sorry for mucking up the forum with such unimportant matters.
I know you were being flip' but you're right to ask as the various grounding techniques can have a large impact.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 10 April 2009 by dave simpson
Could be the result of Adam bickering with himself as he's effectively participated in a (sanctioned) AC modification thread.
Posted on: 15 April 2009 by StephenK
Dear all!
Thanks for the comprehensive answers, however, I am still not sure I understand completely.
If I understand correctly, equipment security earthing is differnt from signal path earthing, and teh security is always mentained. Sognal earthing goes (now) via the cd player. This still confuses me as e.g. a chrome hicap seems to have been the signal earth. If this ist correct, does a combination of new cd player with old hicap disturb the earthing arangement? I once connected an old Hicap in a CD5i, 112, 150 system, and while it improved in some areas, the overall result was worse than without. Earthing?
Regards,
Stephen
p.s. I am actually surprised that this topic ended in the padded cell, as I think there is no intention in playing around with earthing. I know that some other equipment does not work very well with naim due to earthing, but I see this as a consequence of naims rigorous earthing philiosophy, which also one part why naim works so well overall.
I also can understand that some equipment combination does not utilize 100% of earthing benefit, which is no issue, as there are often coosen compromises. But I would like to know, if there is a choice, what the best arangement would be, and if there are simple mistakes to make which do more harm than good.
Thanks for the comprehensive answers, however, I am still not sure I understand completely.
If I understand correctly, equipment security earthing is differnt from signal path earthing, and teh security is always mentained. Sognal earthing goes (now) via the cd player. This still confuses me as e.g. a chrome hicap seems to have been the signal earth. If this ist correct, does a combination of new cd player with old hicap disturb the earthing arangement? I once connected an old Hicap in a CD5i, 112, 150 system, and while it improved in some areas, the overall result was worse than without. Earthing?
Regards,
Stephen
p.s. I am actually surprised that this topic ended in the padded cell, as I think there is no intention in playing around with earthing. I know that some other equipment does not work very well with naim due to earthing, but I see this as a consequence of naims rigorous earthing philiosophy, which also one part why naim works so well overall.
I also can understand that some equipment combination does not utilize 100% of earthing benefit, which is no issue, as there are often coosen compromises. But I would like to know, if there is a choice, what the best arangement would be, and if there are simple mistakes to make which do more harm than good.