Hi folks.
As you may or may not know, I've been looking to get a new CD player for some time now, and have tried a home demo of a CDS-II with XPS power supply. Whilst it had some great characteristics going for it, ultimately it left me feeling 'is that it?' and I was a bit underwhelmed.
Now, the agenda has changed. Whilst I've listened to other cd players, I'm still holding out for this 'magic' that the CDS-II/XPS is reported to deliver. I have come to the conclusion that a number of possible explanations for my underwhelmement (is that a word?), some more plausible than others.
(1) Could the CDS-II/XPS be overrated in a big way? Unlikely, why would people spend that sort of money if it didn't do what its legendary status would suggest? I can't see this being the case, as most people are unanimous in their feelings on this player.
(2) CD as a format will never reach the lofty heights of a great record deck playing a good pressing of vinyl. Quite possible - the CDS-II/XPS I listened to fell quite some way short of my TT and what I recall of a full-monty LP12.
(3) My system is so crap as to be unable to discriminate the finer qualities of the CDS-II/XPS and therefore I'm listening through a 'dirty window'. I feel this is extremely unlikely, as the system sounded fantastic with the CDX and is ridiculously good with vinyl - sure, the preamp falls a little short of a 52 - it's approximately in the same class as an 82/SC - and the amps, wires and speakers are all in a similar league.
(4) Perhaps the CDS-II/XPS I borrowed from my dealer was not performing optimally? Maybe I didn't give it long enough to impress (it had a week on almost constantly, so that idea seems less likely) or perhaps there was something fundamentally broken with that particular player - perhaps it needed a service, or had been dropped or transported without the screws in place? - this would certainly explain my ultimate disappointment in it.
(5) Could the voicing of the CDS-II/XPS be somewhat different to that of the CDX and (for better or worse) perhaps I don't like it. I'd be surprised, as I like the sound of the CDX so much, and the 'Naim sound' is fairly consistent IMHO.
So, I'm at another crossroads. I am back to my stand-in secondary source, a cd recorder which whilst great for its price, is so ridiculously outclassed by my turntable it's difficult to comprehend.
What I'm wondering is: where can I hear ANOTHER CDS-II/XPS, perhaps one that is warmed up fully, known to be in perfect order and maybe in the context of a similarly spec'd system? Is anyone in my area able to help?
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by Top Cat
Good point, Davey.
The CDS-II/XPS I had showed no problems when I performed the POST - i.e. no recorded errors over the duration of the disc. Then again, that might indicate a slightly faulty, rather than a suboptimal unit.
Perhaps there was something a bit duff about the machine, something borne of a bit of mishandling, or over/under-tightening of the transit bolts, or maybe something else, who can tell.
That's why I'd like a second shot at it!
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by Top Cat
CDS-II head unit, 2 years old.
XPS, 1 year old.
Dealer demonstration. Dealer was aware that I would have preferred to pay the extra for a new one, given the relatively small difference in the price of the demonstration unit from the a new unit.
Rest of chain: DNM 3B Primus preamps, Crimson 640D power amps, Neat Petite III/Gravitas on Mana, Dedicated spur, Nordost SPM interconnects and Red Dawn speaker cable, QS Reference rack.
For Garyi:
quote:
It sounds to me like there is money burning a hole in your pocket and you are despearte to like the CD2 sound, mabye you just don't and thats all?
Not at all; in fact, less so than when I borrowed the CDS-II/XPS in the first place. I just want to get the best I can afford and the CDS-II/XPS was one of those items that everyone raved about, so I wanted to hear it (having liked the CDX very much). I don't want to upgrade any further after whatever CD player I get, so I'd rather get the right thing and to hell with the price, so long as it justifies itself in musical terms. Surprisingly, I didn't feel that particular unit I listened to justified its price.
quote:
As you are aware the CDX/XPS route can always lead you to the CDS2 in the future any how
True, but if I'm ever likely to get to CDS-II/XPS then I want to go there straight away, rather than going the long route via CDX and upgrading. However, at this point in time perhaps the CDX makes more sense, given that vinyl is still my main source...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by Top Cat
My second SPM interconnect wasn't used in the demo - partly because it's at Nordost awaiting orders for retermination (either from RCA->RCA to RCA->DIN or to DIN->DIN) and so I used both the Naim cable and a Red Dawn mkII borrowed from my dealer. Having used the same cable (Naim) on the CDX, I would like to think that it could be eliminated as a factor, for whilst it wasn't the most tactile presentation with the CDX, there was detail, speed, tonal accuracy and most importantly lots of music. Trying a Chord Anthem added a bit more bass (perhaps too much) and muddied it up a bit, but with a sharper edge to the sound and lots more detail. I preferred the Naim cable with the CDX. However, with the CDS-II/XPS, I tried the Naim cable and the others and to no avail.
I mean, let's get serious here. SPM is way above what most people would partner a CDS-II with (i.e. the Naim cable) and so shouldn't be a problem in the context of a non-Naim system. In a Naim system, possibly, I can't say.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by John
Top Cat:
The most important factor I believe is how we listen to music and what we prioritize when we listen. I prefer the CDS1 to the CDS2. CDPs seem to take a different slice of the music picture. The CDS2s slice is little different from the CDS1's. In the lower level CDPs you are resolving problems such as digital glare. In the higher end players it becomes more a question of taiste than what is better.
What has been a revelation to me was going back into vinyl. Vinyl seems to deliver a much wider slice of the music picture and for me results in a much more enjoyable experience. The softness and smoothness of the CDS2 is there along with the PRaT emphasis of the CDS1.
Also, if you have anything less than a 52 the glory and failings of your sources are being masked. It's relative of course as I am sure the 52 does some masking.
John
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by Greg Beatty
I've not been *really* impressed with digital, but every now and then the medium shows some potential.
My wife made a recording on our iBook of her playing her violin. We dumped it, along with video, to DV tape and played it back through the stereo.
Jeepers!!! The live violin makes our male cat, how you say, frisky. The recording did the same thing!!! I could hear a difference between live and the recording, but the difference was very small and *way* smaller than than the difference between our local recording and *any* violin recording I have bought in the store.
Methinks they lose a ton in mastering - don't know why.
- Greg
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 22 March 2002 by Mike Sae
quote:
(5) Could the voicing of the CDS-II/XPS be somewhat different to that of the CDX and (for better or worse) perhaps I don't like it. I'd be surprised, as I like the sound of the CDX so much, and the 'Naim sound' is fairly consistent IMHO.
Perhaps you get on with the particular colorations* of the CDX in your system.
I've casually demmed the CDSII vs. bare CDX- both CD players were plugged into the an 82/SC/135/NBL (all fully warm).
The CDX has a looser presentation with more juiciness and body. This may be the "voicing" that you speak of. I think the CDX swings just as well as a CDSII, it's just not as tight. I once met a fellow (in real life, not on a forum 
) who downgraded his CDSII and went back to CDX/XPS for broadly these reasons.
Short of a knackered suspension, it would surprise me if the CDSII was damaged in a way that would effect its sound. If one drops a CDS hard enough, it should stop working entirely, not "sound slightly underwhelming compared to a CDX"
*coloration does not mean "bad"
PS I watched Trainspotting again last night. Edinburgh seems like a fun place, sorta like Manchester minus the traffic.
Posted on: 23 March 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
What do you have on your shortlist besides the CDX? I'd certainly be interested to know what you think of the Densen Beat 400XS or the new Resolution Audio Opus 21, should you dem them.
Hey, they managed to sneak that one in pretty damned quietly! I've been hanging back, waiting for a chance to hear the replacement for the CD55, and this is it. Wow, looks like a worthy candidate, but how will it sound...
I guess I'm waiting for it to hit these shores, then, and do the big Naim versus Resolution Audio comparison...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 23 March 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Vuk's son:
You mention the different voicing of the CDX vs CDS2, can you say a word about it ?
The CDSII has a sense of ease, but can still swing a dynamic when required.
The CDX & CDX/XPS are superb players, and I for one do NOT subscribe to the 'must have a CDSII to hear any music' line. The X+X combo is, in my opinion, even better value than the bare CDX - twice the money but more than twice the performance (especially in a really good system).
There is a 'hard-hitting', controlled quality to the CDX which sounds great. The CDSII achieves it's power through somewhat different means, less overt, but ultimately more natural. For me, this entailed re-balancing the system which had been optimised for the delivery of the CDX.
Both the CDX & CDSII depend heavily on their support to really give of their best.
quote:
I'm asking because I have a CDI and eventually it's not "solid" enough for me and is too screechy, I'm considering a CDX.
I would expect the CDX to be a good move for you. What does your CDI sit on?
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 24 March 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Vuk's son:
I have tried the CDI in 4 configurations : old (metal/wood) soundorg,
Ugh. Forget this option. Nothing will sound good on it.
quote:
vuk's ball-nutters,
These never really worked for me, made the sound go 'grainy'.
quote:
the floor
I have heard a system get much better moving from Sound Org onto a carpeted concrete floor. This is more a sign of how desperately bad the Sound Org stuff is, I think.
quote:
and Mana phase 2.
The CDX is reputed to work well on this (and I think the CDI, also).
quote:
Do you have experience with what the CDX likes to sit on ? If I get it I'll try it with the Mana, it might be less sensitive.
Well, I wouldn't expect the CDX to be less affected by a problem Mana installation than the CDI.
Unfortunately, I didn't try major stand tweakery under the CDX, and I now know I could have got a lot more out of it.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 24 March 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
Can't say I've noticed, but then generally I'm not in one of those nasty smelly 4-wheeled thingies!
Just spent my CD-buying budget on a membership to a sports car club... you pays yer cash, then you get points to book from a range of exotica ranging from things as normal as a Honda S2000 or Mitsubishi Evo up to Ferrari, Porsche, an E-Type, etc... not too expensive, all things considered, and I'm prepared to wait a while for the cd player as a consequence. Me, I'm a petrol head when it boils down to it. Four wheels, though, but then a Caterham is about as close as a four wheeled thing ever gets to a bike in any case...
Oh, yeah, cd players. Hmmm... I'm going to have to wait now, diamond rings and sports cars have depleted the reserves for a good while now...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
