New Zealand General Election thread

Don

I guess I'm just "old school" or old fashioned or plain superstitious or something - but I believe that I am my history and my history is me. I also believe that time does not heal the wounds of injustice and that the sins of my fathers will be visited upon me if I do not recognise the past and make amends.

Deane

Deane,

Looks to me like we're poles appart on this one....

Cheers

Don

Apparantly too close to call.
Deane, make your vote count.

Lomo

I hope my vote did count. I changed my mind in the last couple of days and gave both of my votes to Labour - this decision being based purely on the polls which showed the race as being, as you say, too close to call. Brash and National must be kept from government at all costs IMO.

So I am an example of a voter who has been influenced by the polls taken by the news media in the leadup to a general election.

Deane,
Still too close to call. How did you get to vote twice?

quote:

Originally posted by Lomo:
How did you get to vote twice?

The wonders of proportional representation. See explanation earlier this thread.

Yes, a very close result, and the special votes coming in from overseas etc could make a difference. Final result is not expected until 1 October.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
the special votes coming in from overseas etc could make a difference.

It appears your fate is in MY hands Deane (cue manical laugher...)

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:

It appears your fate is in MY hands Deane (cue manical laugher...)

The Greens are expecting the special vote to favour them enough to get them a 7th MP (Nandor Tanczos).

Greetings

Hmmm, I started writing something which came about from unsettling feelings from the past, which in turn arose from reading through this thread, and particularly as regards the Maori issue, but I deleted it part of the way through, as it started to become very personal for me, and possibly offensive to others, which I didn't want to do, so deleted it.

So to try and start again: for various personal and very deep felt reasons, I find, speaking as an 'ex' Kiwi, the Maori question, and NZ politics/social attitudes generally, quite unsettling FOR ME.

Living as I do, and proudly, in Australia for the last twenty years, but having been 'born and breed' in NZ of English and Scottish parents, meeting the odd visiting 'Kiwi' here is a reminder of some very unhappy times and attitudes I'm glad to have left behind.

No offence is intended, and I apologise in advance if my comments offend anyone - please bear in mind that they are personal, and as such subjective - nay cynical to the point of being even a bit bitter perhaps. Those who know me, may well understand better, and why I feel that way at times.

NZ'ers to me, obviously not all, but speaking generally, take themselves far, far to seriously IMHO. NZ'ers I meet now over here, present the same, seemingly, anally retentative minds as existed when I resided there, and are surprised to find that the rest of the world doesn't really know about the Maori 'question' or for that matter care.

Why is it that the seeming majority of NZ'ers I meet, appear to have a chip on their shoulder, particularly at Australians, and the world in general, and feel that the rest of the world owes them something?

The 'aggrieved' Maori attitude was Sooo prevalent when I was living there, and really, I'm just over it.

Maybe I should try and establish a 'class action' against the English for the taking of Scottish lands. Maybe as someone of Celtic descent, I should try and get something out of the Normans for killing poor King Harold at the battle of Hastings?

Granted, the Maori question is different, in that a treaty was signed, and later not honoured, but I'm really sick of the way Maoris have used it as an excuse for every social ill under the sun, and become very adept at social blackmail basically.

This politicaly correct attitude seems to have flowed over into the general populace; as I say, many (not all) Kiwis seem to view their country as being like a litle Norway, or Denmark - fair enough, but with it this seeming attitude that they, because of the Maori question, are the worlds moral police.

As I say, I don't mean to offend, deliberately or inadvertantly, but I suffered enormously in my youth with this politicaly correct, thought police, minding your neighbours business attitude, and I resent it a great deal, as it STILL seems to be so prevalent.

Perhaps I'm being unfair, after all my comments are obviously coloured by my personal experiences when living there, and I guess all relatively small societies have a very conformist attitude.

However, it seems to me many NZ'ers need to take a look at the world as it is, and stop daydreaming with nary achievable idealist views of things, as per the Maori issue, and get on with life basically. As a case in point, and I'm sure others could comment more accurately than I, but I am under the understanding that the refusal to allow US military ships which may, or may not be carrying nuclear weapons (they will neither confirm of deny) to port in NZ, lead to the disolution of the ANZUS treaty.

So, in the case of possible world conflict, is NZ suddenly going to abandon it's 'idealist' world view, and come running back to the US or Australia asking for help? I mean, get real...

Still, I'll say no more, as I don't, and I mean that sincerely, wish to offend - besides, I've not been to NZ in many years, and apart from a few friends and the beautiful countryside, have no wish to, frankly, however I concede that things may have changed/improved. I hope so.

Best Regards

John....

John

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Mabo v State of Queensland.

Deane

"the reasonableness, patience and understanding of Maori is as consistent as the underhandedness, corruption and venality of the Crown.

Ngai Tahu patiently waited decade upon decade before their claims were settled (by $600M of compensation for a $20 billion theft.)"

Deane,

John's post above prompted me to revisit this subject and to have a quick look at a couple of NZ.gov type webb sites and the 1840 Treaty of Waitangi and the 1975 Tribunal.

Looks like the South Island is sorted.

Still about 1,000 claims outsanding (mainly in the North Island?) and an estimated 15 years to sort out.

I still can't find out how many Ngai Tahu shared in the $600m compensation or how many other "First Nation" people hope to get future settlements.

Looks to me like the original treaty was badly drafted over 3 days by amaturs, badly translated into Maori, and badly explained verbaly. It was then badly executed in unexpected ways for a few years and nobody (crown, settler or Maori) felt it was working. No wonder it fell into disuse.

I still wouldn't loose any sleep over it. The tribunal will sort it all out in a fair and reasonable way (eg it even extended its own remit in 1985 to look at pre 1975 issues!!!)). It's quite common to find that claimants have higher expectations from settlements than is reasonable.

So, how soon before you know who will be your new government?

And what does the Maori Party manifesto contain?

Cheers

Don

Don

They say of the Treaty claims process that the barrel has been filled with the big rocks now but the spaces that are left need to be filled with the multitude of small rocks and that is why it will take so long.

A huge archive has been built from the research done by historians on both sides of each claim and this is a hugely positive outcome of it all in my view.

Deane

The election result? I doubt that National will be able to build a coalition but I'm not sure how stable a Labour led one will prove to be. Final result of polling expected on October 1.