Why can't we talk about.....

Posted by: trickytree on 12 January 2004

.....modifying our Naim kit. Yes I know that this is Naims own site and they pay the bill's and are fully entitled to dictate the rule's. But, could they not learn something if they were only willing to listen? Be it relatively minor mods like splitting the power supply tracks and adding a second Hi-Cap, to the wholesale replacement of components, there seems to be a common pattern to these mods.

There seems to be a great number of web sites detailing various modifications to Pre-Amps in particular. Are all these sites just a variation of one (man's?) theme or did they all come to the same conclusion after identifying areas of the basic circuit that could easily be improved on?
Sailsbury will wheel out the old chesnut about kit being returned to there service department to be put back to standard after being modified. But why is it returned? Is it becouse the mods dont work, or is it that in these particular cases the work was carried out by uninformed amatures with more enthusiasm than technical knowledge?

Im sure that many differing component combinations were tried during the development stage, but they could'nt have possibly tried them all, is it just conceivable that someone in the world has found a combination that sounds better? Advancements in component technology and the development of audiophile grade components can bring improvements simply becouse they were not available to the designers at the time.

Of course some people will tinker with most anything just for the enjoyment of it. Some do it for financial reasons. I have succesfully improved the sound of my Kef Coda's with some very simple and practically free mods. If they were ever returned to the Kef factory they would probably pour scorn over them, but to my ears and in my system and room they sound much better than standard. Why can't the same be true of Naim amps?

Many Naim principles are well worth adhearing to in my veiw, yet things move on. After years of insisting on the use of Nac-A5, the new Nait 5i is designed to use any type of speaker cable. Some things are not set in stone then.

Paul.
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by NaimDropper
Agreed.
Could limit it to mods on kit that's been discontinued... Besides, I doubt there are too many of us willing to go at a 500 with a hot soldering iron...
David
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by timster
Paul,

Sorry, but I must disagree with you. I think it is fine to talk about it, but it just shouldn't be done. What about the poor unsuspecting buyer who get's modded equipment that isn't advertised as so (through ignorance or otherwise?) I would like to know I've purchased an "authentic" piece of naim equipment, wouldn't you?

Just because someone decided their "mod" sounded better doesn't mean that others do. Hell, even naim users can't agree on the consistency of the standard "certified" product in terms of sound, so what happens when "modded" items enter the chain?

quote:

Sailsbury will wheel out the old chesnut about kit being returned to there service department to be put back to standard after being modified. But why is it returned? Is it becouse the mods dont work, or is it that in these particular cases the work was carried out by uninformed amatures with more enthusiasm than technical knowledge?



I much prefer that naim spend money on expanding their R&D rather than on adding more people to their maintenance dept trying to "fix-up" people's attempts to better their naim amp. That doesn't make business sense in my view.

Finally, if you aren't happy with your naim kit, what's to stop you from designing and or developing your own?

I'm not against improving naim gear, but they've just done that haven't they?

cheers
tim
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by NaimDropper:
I doubt there are too many of us willing to go at a 500 with a hot soldering iron...
David


I'd give it a go. If it was somebody else's 500.
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Mitch
Mod away, no one is stopping you.

Why would NAIM encourage modifying it’s gear on their own website? It voids the warranty for one thing.

So what possible benefit would they get by allowing posts about modifying their gear? If such information were posted on their website it could be construed as condoning such behavior if not actually encouraging it.


Mitch
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by trickytree
Tim.

To answer your first and final points, I personaly only want to talk about it at this stage as I have no practical electronic skills or theorhetical knowledge of circuit design. My effort would be one of those returned to Naim to be rescued!

On the other hand the type of kit that I own, ( 62/90 ) is old hat, bottom of the range technology. I bought it because its all I could afford. An 82 would be nice but it offers facilities that I do not need, nor do I want to pay for. Vinyl is my only source, so why should I pay money (even second hand money) for facilities that I do not need?

There has been much talk on this forum calling for a striped down pre amp, one without remote control, digital switching or other such luxuries, but I very nmuch doubt it will ever happen.

On the other hand the knowledge is out there to offer me much improved performance at a price I could aspire to. Provided the kit remained in my possession and was not resold as anything other than being modified, wheres the harm? I have no doubt at all that Naim have the know-how to turn my 62 into a pre-amp that would offer 82 beating performance without the bells and whistles that push the price up to a level that is out of many peoples reach.

Naim proudly boast the fact that there products are hand built to order. Why not offer this service to owners of older equipment? They will not lose a sale of new equipment to me, so what have they got to lose?

Paul.
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Minky
If I won Lotto I would nail Moose antlers onto my 500, spray paint "amplify this ya bastards" on the side, mount the lot on the front of my car and then drive down to Mr Murphenstein's shop to ask why me system was sounding a bit "aggressive".
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by NaimDropper
THAT would be worth a business class round trip ticket, Minky.
Let me know how you get on with your lotto...

And I'm with you, HTK. I'd give the usual 20/20 guarantee... 20 steps or 20 seconds, whichever came first!

David
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by rgame666
Being able to change the colour and or brightness of the green logo's on the front of the 5 series stuff would be cool.

Blue LED's anyone??

It would look like a Krell but sound better!! Smile
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by NaimDropper
A series resistor would tame the brightness... There! I talked about modifying Naim!
David
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by Paul Stephenson
"the new Nait 5i is designed to use any type of speaker cable. Some things are not set in stone then."

Still sounds best with naca5!!.............
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by Rasher
C'mon boys. This is like buying a DB7 and then taking it to Halfords for a stick-on spoiler and a "KENWOOD" windshield sticker. If you want an Imprezza WRX buy one. If you want a hot-rodded hifi, build one from scratch. You know it makes sense. Smile
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by trickytree
quote:
If you want an Imprezza WRX buy one. If you want a hot-rodded hifi, build one from scratch. You know it makes sense.


What if someone wants a hot-rodded Imprezza WRX, should they build one of those from scratch? I dont think that makes much sense Wink

I'm not talking about attacking a 500 or a CDS3 with wire cutters and a soldering iron, (though if anyone wants to its quite legal to do so, providing it's there property in the first place). But if my old 62 could be made inproportionatly "better" why are some people against such a practice?

There have been a number of posts recently of people using Supercaps with a 72. It would be interesting to know how good a 72 could sound if it used more of the Supercaps regulated suplies. Im led to beleive a 72 can be modified take upto 8 rails, how close to a 82 would it get?

Paul.
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by NaimDropper
What about buying a nice Audi or BMW etc. and "chipping" it?
I have several friends that are totally dedicated to their automotive brands yet they have changed the engine control software, changed suspension, tires (tyres), cams, intake, exhaust, etc. and have gained performance.
Yes, it's not EXACTLY the same thing, but it's way more involved that trying, say, a different interconnect...
I doubt seriously that there's much anyone could do to improve the newer kit but the older kit has some opportunities.
David
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
I still feel that talking about mods here is like going to dinner and telling your host that they could have improved the recipe in the following manner.

The cookbook with space for suggestions is pink fish media. There is even a DIY bit precisely for this kind of discussion.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy
Posted on: 13 January 2004 by HTK
Good point Mike. And very interesinig (and scary in places) it is too.