The Buffy / Joss Whedon Thread

Hello, my name is Nigel, and I'm a Buffyholic.

Dollhouse is Joss Whedon's trickiest proposition to date. Way too cerebral for network TV (you really have to give Fox credit for commissioning a second season). I found it fascinating, but it didn't engage me on the emotional level anywhere near as much as Joss' other TV shows. The hyper-accelerated storytelling in the last few episodes didn't help much either - it all came across as a bit muddled.

Firefly... now there's a tragedy! The original pilot is as good as anything Joss has ever done, and the storytelling possibilities within that universe appeared to be boundless. Then the network got hold of it, substituted an inferior pilot and showed the other episodes out of order. What a pity!

The Firefly experience makes me appreciate Buffy all the more. It's a miracle something as ambitious and complex survived for so long on US network TV. I think the show's title tricked people into thinking it was some vapid teen fantasy drama, and attracted a healthy audience (some of whom then went on to see beyond the surface presentation). As I say, a miracle I remain grateful for to this day.

I'm going to go off-topic here (well, it is my thread) and say that I have every intention of rewatching Charmed when I've finished with Buffy and Angel. A little like "Buffy-lite", I suppose, but still great fun in its own way.

Currently reading Cassandra Clare's "Mortal Instruments" trilogy. Excellent read, even it is supposed to be for teenagers. Much more deserving of film treatment than that awful Stephanie Meyer tripe such as "Twilight".

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Originally posted by Dungassin:
I wanted something I was familiar with so I could watch with the sound almost off and subtitles on so as not to wake up a grandchild ?

You need headphones for your telly mate. I couldn't survive in our house without them.
Almost all TVs will provide a way to use headphones, e.g.from the SCART socket, although it can be trickier; I have to use an optical cable and DAC from my Samsung LED TV.

Your post gives me an excuse to investigate Buffy again, which I had dismissed as fluff.

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You need headphones for your telly mate. I couldn't survive in our house without them.

Far too complicated. I'd have to get a headphone amp to plug into my AV2.

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Your post gives me an excuse to investigate Buffy again, which I had dismissed as fluff.

If you do, be aware that the show was finding its feet in season 1, and doesn't fully hit it's stride until midway through season 2, with the two part story "Syrprise"/"Innocence". I get goosebumps just thinking about those episodes, and the ones that came after.

Also, Buffy is very much a cumulative experience. The consequences of certain events are not always clear until a year or two later. The creator of Buffy, Joss Whedon, described it as a show about "becoming" - how we become what we are. I know of no TV show (or anything else, for that matter) that explores this theme so successfully.

It took me a long time to get into Buffy, a couple of good friends badgered me into watching it. In know a couple of actors who are great fans, the dialogue is so well written, particularly Joss Wheedon's episodes.

I had seen a few episodes at friends houses, and had seen one that is now a favourite 'The Prom', but out of context that had made me think the show was Beverley Hills 90210 with a few monsters. I was very wrong.

It was actually Firefly that got me into Wheedon's series. The friend who had been badgering me showed me the pilot of Firefly which I immediately thought was fantastic, and then they said it was by the writer of Buffy, and sat me down and showed me 'The Body'. I was blown away.

I then started at the beginning, and although I find a lot of the first season somewhat lacking, 'The Pack' is hilarious, and not for the right reasons, but the series does set the ground for the characters. The second season is my favourite, Spike and Drusilla lift the series, giving real character to the bad guys.

I am also a big fan of series 6, which I know a lot of fans do not like. The morons are not great enemies, but it is the relationships and seeing the characters grow into a world outside school that is fantastic.

'The Body' remains my favourite episode, and I would say that it is one of the best pieces of television drama, ranking alongside 'The Wire' (David Simon) or Alan Ball's (Six Feet Under, True Blood) work.

SPOILER - DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE TEMPTED TO FOLLOW THE SERIES.

I lost my mother at the same age as Buffy does, and 'The Body' is the only time in drama I have seen death explored not in terms of emotional loss, but in terms of the physical emptiness it leaves, the actual physical pain it causes, and the way it affects doing everyday tasks. All the scenes are shot in real time, it does not allow the viewer to escape from what is happening, and even the events that give relief to the characters, are not allowed to give relief to the viewer.

If you have not watched the episode with the directors commentary, it is well worth doing so, Wheedon gives a great deal of insight into what drives the writing and direction.

END OF SPOLIER

I also love 'Hush' and 'Once More With Feeling', as well as 'Pangs' (the Thanksgiving Day episode).

I actually like what there is of Firefly more than Buffy, but never really liked Angel, and Dollhouse didn't appeal much at all. Still I keep an eye on whatever Joss Wheedon does, just as I keep an eye on David Simon and Alan Ball's work.

What have Buffy fans thought of 'True Blood', I have really enjoyed the first two seasons, but I don't think the characters are as deep as the those in Buffy.

My wife's a huge Buffy fan but I confess the delights of this series passed me by.

However, I think the film that sprang out of the "Firefly" series - "Serenity" - is superb and probably my favourite Sci-Fi movie.

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What have Buffy fans thought of 'True Blood', I have really enjoyed the first two seasons, but I don't think the characters are as deep as the those in Buffy.

I like it. Especially the Jace Everett theme tune. Could do with a little more humour, though.

Pity series 2 has gone to satellite. I refuse to get Sky just for the sake of a couple of series, so I suppose I'll finish up buying the DVD set(s) when they appear. Still hoping it will eventually be rerun on Freeview.

Incidentally, have you noticed that this is the second time Stephen Moyer has played a vampire? Check out "Ultraviolet" (the TV series with Jack Davenport) - well worth getting hold of a copy if you don't already own one.

The DVD came out about a month ago, not as good as season 1, but still good.

I worked with Ultraviolet director Joe Ahearne on a dreadful BBC series called 'Strange', good director, nice guy. I haven't got around to watching Ultraviolet, but will give it a try sometime.

Interestingly looking at the cast of Ultraviolet, it also had Idris Elba of 'The Wire' fame.

I guess now that the series is past history there is not a lot to add other than 'I like it too'.

In an effort to keep the thread alive how about people posting some of their favourite episodes.

As a quick start:

The Body (series 5)
Buffy and the gang are overcome by grief when tragedy strikes and they are robbed of someone they hold dear.

Hush (series 4)
After the residents of Sunnydale lose the power of speech, Buffy battles strangely silent assailants alongside an incredulous Riley.

One more with feeling (series 6)
Musical episode, with the cast doing their own vocals.

Restless (series 4)
A primordial spirit haunts the dreams of Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander, making them each face their innermost fears.

Pangs (series 4)
Buffy tries to have a perfect Thanksgiving.

Haloween (series 2)
Someone from Giles' past wreaks havoc on Halloween, causing Buffy and the gang to be transformed into their costumes.

The Prom (series 3)
Just a nice little soapy episode, but lovely on character.

Apart from the individual episodes I love Dru and Spike, and how their characters develop, and I also really like the relationship between Willow and Tera, and I think the unsentimental end to it is another brave piece of TV, and rather shocking.

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Far too complicated. I'd have to get a headphone amp to plug into my AV2.

Well, I bit the bullet and have a Stax 2050 system on order - to be plugged into the tape socket on my 282.

As for ongoing Buffy/Whedon business. Currently slowly rewatching the occasional episode of Angel. Just got as far as Wesley reappearing a couple of episodes ago. Amazing how he slowly transforms from a complete nerd into hard-ass action man by the end of the series.

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As for ongoing Buffy/Whedon business. Currently slowly rewatching the occasional episode of Angel. Just got as far as Wesley reappearing a couple of episodes ago. Amazing how he slowly transforms from a complete nerd into hard-ass action man by the end of the series.

Agreed, Wesley's character arc (post"Sleep Tight", especially) is probably the finest in the entire Buffyverse.

Jamie, thanks for reviving the thread. I meant to express my appreciation of your thoughtful earlier post, but somehow forgot. I agree that "The Body" has to be near the top of anyone's list of best episodes. The first time I saw it, I had to turn off after a couple of minutes to steel myself for the rest of the episode. It's the finest representation I've seen of the impact of death on those left behind, and one of the greatest hours of television ever broadcast, in my opinion.

The Prom is a funny one. It would not be the first episode I'd show to a Buffy sceptic, as, taken in isolation, it may simply reinforce all the usual prejudices about buffy being a cheesy, sentimental high school drama (with fangs). Even I didn't like it first time round. But in retrospect, and in context, it's a wonderful episode, the sentiment being fully earned after three years of putting Buffy through the emotional mill.

Anyway, a couple you didn't mention. Passion is the episode that changed everything for me. Angel's brutal killing of an established cast member made me realise that no-one was safe. But, more than that, the way in which Angel is shown revelling in the grief he's caused (the scene where he watches Buffy and Willow hearing the news through the window) told me that the series was not afraid to explore some very dark territory concerning the nature of true evil.

In contrast, The Gift explores the nature of sacrifice. 100th episode, and season 5 finale with many great character moments, but it's the Buffy/Dawn scene at the end that always gets me. A brilliant, moving conclusion to what is probably my favourite season.

Then there's No Place Like Home with it's mind blowing revelation about where Dawn came from (she is "an innocent", after all).

And Fool For Love, and Dopplegangland and... and...

Did I mention that I love this show beyond all reason?!
Nigel

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Originally posted by Dungassin:

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Far too complicated. I'd have to get a headphone amp to plug into my AV2.

Well, I bit the bullet and have a Stax 2050 system on order - to be plugged into the tape socket on my 282.

As for ongoing Buffy/Whedon business. Currently slowly rewatching the occasional episode of Angel. Just got as far as Wesley reappearing a couple of episodes ago. Amazing how he slowly transforms from a complete nerd into hard-ass action man by the end of the series.

I am sure you will never regret getting good headphones, if for no other reason than you can watch films with lots of shooting at ridiculous volumes