Riders take a trip to the round earth….more amplifier casualties.
Posted by: David Hobbs-Mallyon on 23 May 2003
As our planned revisit to Nick's house to hear his new 252/500 set-up was once again delayed by his ongoing electricity saga, the Riders were getting itchy feet and keen to get out and hear another sistem. Under the influence of alcohol, David Coster had foolishly agreed to such a visit on our last visit to Alex S.'s. All of us were curious to hear David's sistem, as he has strayed from a pretty high-end Naim set-up, to a much rounder-earth sistem, and it's always good to hear what the alternatives out there are like.
Dave J, Tom and I arrived early and had a quick look round a quite unfamiliar set-up. David's system consists of
Sources: Vinyl is David's main source and LP12/DV17D2/Armageddon/Trichord Deliphini Mk2. David currently has two CD players, a Musical Fidelity NuVista and a Denon DVD 2800 + Midiman DAC.
Amplification: Bat VK-40 Preamplifier, with Advantage M300 monoblocks. David also had to hand a prototype Tripath based amplifier that he has been building, and which we started the evening.
Stands - Mana, Phase 5ish (I lost count) on the turntable, and Phase 2 on everything else.
Speakers - Quad 988s
I think it's fair to say that David's complete change of sistem has been driven by his love affair with the Quads. Visually when you walk into his room, it's the first thing you notice. I've briefly heard Quads a couple of times, and have been impressed, so was keen to get a good listen this time. One of their oddities is that if you stand to the side of them you get to hear the sound coming from the back wall. The sweet spot seems to be in the middle a few feet away from the speakers, not unlike Tom's 'Big Headphones' arrangement. Needless to say, Tom was in his element for the evening, assuming the Lotus position on the floor, only moving to outstretch his hand for a refill when the wine was being passed round. I had always assumed that Quads were very easy to drive with wimpy valve amps - in fact if you want to get some serious bass out of them, then it seems that you just can't get enough power.
Anyway getting some of the nerdy listening out of the way early - we tried switching between the MF Nuvista and the Denon DVD. The Nuvista had been cold at the start of the evening, and the early demonstration for me put the Denon ahead in that it had a bit more get up and go, with the slightly soft-focus sound of the MF, being very different to my usual listening. Later on we tried again and the refinement, particularly in the mid-range of the MF started to show itself as being ahead of the Denon on some material. For me though, I'd probably still be happier with the Denon, being closer in presentation to my CDSII.
On to the vinyl and a quick comparison of some Herbie Hancock on both CD and LP12 showed the vinyl was the superior source on the night, certainly injecting more energy into the performance. It was about this time that a very pissed off Nick Lees finally arrived - you would think that Aston Villa would know not to announce controversial managerial announcements on a Riders evening. Anyway Tom decided to calm Nick down by playing one of the most raucous live King Crimson tracks you're likely to hear - Tom assured us that on his sistem it sounds pleasant and melodic - the conclusion was obvious (at least to us Hutter users), David's Mana must be destroying the tune.
On to the amplification……well we started the evening with David's homemade prototype power amps - David can provide further details on these. Knowing that Quads have a reputation for being a bit bass shy, I pulled out a Public Enemy track that certainly has lots going on in the bass department. Add a touch of extra volume, and it was at this point that David's prototype said it's goodbye for the evening…..and we hadn't even got to Rammstein.
Anyway, on came the Advantage M300 monoblocks - well we got therough the Public Enemy, although admittedly at lower volume. Personally I thought the Adantage amps were better than David's first attempt into Amp building - if I remember rightly Jason Hector was on version 7 power supplies when we were at this place, so I guess there's plenty more to come. Even with the M300 monoblocks, the Quads protection circuitry did play a part several times in the evening, particularly during the Rammstein, so I fully expect David to invite us back when he's made his first 1 kW version.
Well we did get round to some more 'refined' stuff - I decided to inflict some more Bartok on Dave J, who like last time went into state of shock (only matched by Tom's face later on when I remarked that maybe 'classic' Pink Floyd albums were not that good). As Nick and Dave J, disappeared out for a fag break, I will say that my highlight of the evening occurred. The Quads really showed their class, both in terms of the way they portrayed the orchestra, but also in the portrayal of voices which were just fluid and seamless, particularly in the latter better than on any other speakers I've heard (although I think Wilson Benesch ACT2s come close). It' was on material like this, Tom's Shostakovich and the Ravel, that the Quads really showed their class.
What about the downsides - I can certainly see why David has chosen to build his system around the Quads - they really do have some exceptional qualities. The problem is that if you want to get the dynamics and bass of other speakers you need amps with exceptional muscle. Even the powerful amps that David is currently using don't produce the bass and dynamics that I'm used to - maybe kW amps are the way to go. Also, going to these sort of amps does take you quite a long way from the Naim sound. For me I'd miss some of the PraT virtues of more flat earth set-ups, but I'd certainly like to get a bit more of the Quads qualities in my sistem.
So many thanks to David for the excellent hospitality -more to come when Nick supplies the track listing and the pictures of the evening.
David
Dave J, Tom and I arrived early and had a quick look round a quite unfamiliar set-up. David's system consists of
Sources: Vinyl is David's main source and LP12/DV17D2/Armageddon/Trichord Deliphini Mk2. David currently has two CD players, a Musical Fidelity NuVista and a Denon DVD 2800 + Midiman DAC.
Amplification: Bat VK-40 Preamplifier, with Advantage M300 monoblocks. David also had to hand a prototype Tripath based amplifier that he has been building, and which we started the evening.
Stands - Mana, Phase 5ish (I lost count) on the turntable, and Phase 2 on everything else.
Speakers - Quad 988s
I think it's fair to say that David's complete change of sistem has been driven by his love affair with the Quads. Visually when you walk into his room, it's the first thing you notice. I've briefly heard Quads a couple of times, and have been impressed, so was keen to get a good listen this time. One of their oddities is that if you stand to the side of them you get to hear the sound coming from the back wall. The sweet spot seems to be in the middle a few feet away from the speakers, not unlike Tom's 'Big Headphones' arrangement. Needless to say, Tom was in his element for the evening, assuming the Lotus position on the floor, only moving to outstretch his hand for a refill when the wine was being passed round. I had always assumed that Quads were very easy to drive with wimpy valve amps - in fact if you want to get some serious bass out of them, then it seems that you just can't get enough power.
Anyway getting some of the nerdy listening out of the way early - we tried switching between the MF Nuvista and the Denon DVD. The Nuvista had been cold at the start of the evening, and the early demonstration for me put the Denon ahead in that it had a bit more get up and go, with the slightly soft-focus sound of the MF, being very different to my usual listening. Later on we tried again and the refinement, particularly in the mid-range of the MF started to show itself as being ahead of the Denon on some material. For me though, I'd probably still be happier with the Denon, being closer in presentation to my CDSII.
On to the vinyl and a quick comparison of some Herbie Hancock on both CD and LP12 showed the vinyl was the superior source on the night, certainly injecting more energy into the performance. It was about this time that a very pissed off Nick Lees finally arrived - you would think that Aston Villa would know not to announce controversial managerial announcements on a Riders evening. Anyway Tom decided to calm Nick down by playing one of the most raucous live King Crimson tracks you're likely to hear - Tom assured us that on his sistem it sounds pleasant and melodic - the conclusion was obvious (at least to us Hutter users), David's Mana must be destroying the tune.
On to the amplification……well we started the evening with David's homemade prototype power amps - David can provide further details on these. Knowing that Quads have a reputation for being a bit bass shy, I pulled out a Public Enemy track that certainly has lots going on in the bass department. Add a touch of extra volume, and it was at this point that David's prototype said it's goodbye for the evening…..and we hadn't even got to Rammstein.
Anyway, on came the Advantage M300 monoblocks - well we got therough the Public Enemy, although admittedly at lower volume. Personally I thought the Adantage amps were better than David's first attempt into Amp building - if I remember rightly Jason Hector was on version 7 power supplies when we were at this place, so I guess there's plenty more to come. Even with the M300 monoblocks, the Quads protection circuitry did play a part several times in the evening, particularly during the Rammstein, so I fully expect David to invite us back when he's made his first 1 kW version.
Well we did get round to some more 'refined' stuff - I decided to inflict some more Bartok on Dave J, who like last time went into state of shock (only matched by Tom's face later on when I remarked that maybe 'classic' Pink Floyd albums were not that good). As Nick and Dave J, disappeared out for a fag break, I will say that my highlight of the evening occurred. The Quads really showed their class, both in terms of the way they portrayed the orchestra, but also in the portrayal of voices which were just fluid and seamless, particularly in the latter better than on any other speakers I've heard (although I think Wilson Benesch ACT2s come close). It' was on material like this, Tom's Shostakovich and the Ravel, that the Quads really showed their class.
What about the downsides - I can certainly see why David has chosen to build his system around the Quads - they really do have some exceptional qualities. The problem is that if you want to get the dynamics and bass of other speakers you need amps with exceptional muscle. Even the powerful amps that David is currently using don't produce the bass and dynamics that I'm used to - maybe kW amps are the way to go. Also, going to these sort of amps does take you quite a long way from the Naim sound. For me I'd miss some of the PraT virtues of more flat earth set-ups, but I'd certainly like to get a bit more of the Quads qualities in my sistem.
So many thanks to David for the excellent hospitality -more to come when Nick supplies the track listing and the pictures of the evening.
David
Nick.
2 concerns, well 3 actually.
1. there is no way you could remember all them tunes without having wrote them down.
2. you have been taking pictures of the insides of peoples amps.
3. I am reading and replying at 9.00 pm on a friday night.
god help me
2 concerns, well 3 actually.
1. there is no way you could remember all them tunes without having wrote them down.
2. you have been taking pictures of the insides of peoples amps.
3. I am reading and replying at 9.00 pm on a friday night.
god help me
quote:
While we're at at it I'd like to point out that although we are hearing quite a few big money systems we've yet to hear a small but exciting one
Your time will come Tom, as soon as the neighbours are on holiday!
Beer and sandwiches OK
You'll all be held liable for any IBL destruction though - the electronics I have great confidence in!
Andy.
quote:
Originally posted by J. A. Toon:quote:
How do you know, have you listened and compared?
I don't -- that's why I used the word "probably". The reviews I've read where they've compared the high-end Bryston amps with the much more expensive Krell amps have all been pretty favourable.
I know most people here don't rate Stereophile much as Hifi magazine, but they thought the 14-BSST was of sufficient quality to get their top "A" class rating. Given that Stereophile, in general, love Krell equipment, I would take that as a good sign, in these terms.
Hope that answers your question.
Actually it doesn't. In what magazines have you read these reviews where they compare Bryston vs. Krell? I regularly read english, american , german and scandinavian mags ( at the library
) and I don't think I have seen any reviews of Krell vs. Bryston.As for Stereophile: the reviewer who rated the Bryston "A", well he is a Brystonowner and regularly gives them good reviews. And frankly an "A" rating in that mag isn't worth much. All, at least almost all, expensive amps receive that.
Don't get me wrong, I have never heard a Bryston amp. I know they are wellrated and generally considered good value for money, but I doubt it is "as sonically capable, and probably more so, than all these Krell mega-amps" as you say. I have heard Krell many times and would say that they can be extremely impressive. Maybe you should try to borrow one and check it out in your sistem..