All time al***s...?

Wow, this is getting heavy!

With respect, music is anything but cerebral. It is emotional, spiritual, celebratory, nasty.

I wouldn't expect someone with a high IQ to have any discernment when it came to music. Education and musical appreciation are not correlated, in my opinion. Of course there are clever people who dig music too.

It is like that Joke about finding a painting and a violin in your attic. The good news is that you have a Rembradt and a Stradivarius. Unfortunately Rembradt was a crap violin maker and Stradivarius couldn't paint for toffee.

alan

dozy wrote:

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It is emotional, spiritual, celebratory, nasty.

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Yes, it is all of those things.

All of which are anything but divorced from the intellect.

It is the great illusion and mistake of Western Civilisation that spirituality is some mystical affair, separate from "intellectual" activities.

The dichotomy is one of Science/rationality against spirituality/inner awareness. But this dichotomy is inherently flawed.

Music can be immediate, emotional heroin, that requires no deliberate thought.

However, critically, music can also be an intellectual experience. The Cecil Taylor box set I mentioned in another thread is precisely this. It occurs at many levels; one can partake in it superficially, and enjoy the seemingly random flow of notes; however, it also has the power to engage one at the deepest levels of consciousness.

I realise I have only given scant explanation here; but I suggest if you want a more detailed explanation that we take it to a separate thread.

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I wouldn't expect someone with a high IQ to have any discernment when it came to music.

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I once did a Mensa IQ test in my early teens, and received 143, which is much higher than the 100 average.

Now, this figure, is of course, entirely meaningless as a quotient of "intelligence" or practically anything else -- IQs are pretty worthless; but, to counter your question: So do you claim that I have no discernment when it comes to music?

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Education and musical appreciation are not correlated, in my opinion.

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Yes, you are absolutely correct: because education and intellectual ability have little correlation!

Modern education, especially, has almost nothing to do with one's intellectual prowess.

Regards,

John.

John,

I notice you are a student - you wouldn't be attending Mick's Alma Mater* would you



*The University of Life for those less well educated amongst you.

John,

I said I didn't think musical appreciation and IQ were correlated. That means I would expect someone who has an IQ of 143 to be as musically appreciative as someone with an IQ of 70. I didn't imply that clever people can't enjoy music, or can't be as good as anyone else at music. That would be absurd. As absurd as saying someone with a high IQ can appreciate music better!

alan

going back to the topic...
Not Available - the Residents
Music for a new society - John Cale
Pet Sounds and Smile [even in various bootleg forms]
and whilst possibly not a real contender for best album best live album could well be something like the Dead's DP 4 or 8

There doesn't seem to be much cross over between rez fans and the naim forum!

-- Leopold [hey my first post]

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said I didn't think musical appreciation and IQ were correlated. That means I would expect someone who has an IQ of 143 to be as musically appreciative as someone with an IQ of 70. I didn't imply that clever people can't enjoy music, or can't be as good as anyone else at music. That would be absurd. As absurd as saying someone with a high IQ can appreciate music better!

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Okay, point taken.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure I agree about the there being no correlation between intelligence and musical appreciation.

Do you not think, surely, that the likes of (for example) Shostakovich's 11th symphony requires a more sophisticated appreciation than Steps latest chart hit?

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I notice you are a student - you wouldn't be attending Mick's Alma Mater* would you

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I realise, that, as a student, there is an associated notoriety for developing fine, high-brow ideas, but in reality not have the faintest clue what one is talking about.

Hopefully this is not the case with me. The theories and philosophies I have been referring to (perhaps badly! -- I don't want them to come across as some new-age post-modern mental incontinence ) have been developing in my mind for the last 8 years or so, since I was 13. It is always difficult to meaningfully capture a philosophy in a couple of sentences without it sounding like some droll quip from a psilosopher/syncophant or a cheap attempt to capitalise on modern gullibility .

Regards,

John.

Why don't anybody mention this great album!? This is by far the best album ever...

Seeing as I have inadventently hijacked this thread over the last few posts, to get it back on topic, here are some of my all time recommendations.

It is almost impossible to pick a shortlist, but here goes:


Burzum -- Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Shostakovich -- Cello Concerto No. 1/No. 2
Suffocation -- Despise The Sun
Cecil Taylor -- 2Ts for a Lovely T (entire set)
Terrorizer -- World Downfall
Prokofiev -- Piano Concerto No. 2
Geirr Tveitt -- Piano Concerto No. 5
My Dying Bride -- The Angel & The Dark River
Bartok -- String Quartet No. 3
Opeth -- Morningrise
Abigor -- Supreme Immortal Art


John.

Ignoring Jazz and classical these albums spring to my mind..

Steely Dan - aja
Marvin Gaye - What's going on
Talk Talk - Spirit of Eden
John Martyn - Solid air
Rickie Lee Jones - Rickie Lee Jones
Beatles - Rubber soul
Jackson Brown - Late for the sky
Kate Bush - Hounds of Love
Neil Young - After the Goldrush
Tom Waits - Raindogs
Nightmares on Wax - Smokers delight
Jeff Buckley - Grace
Grace Jones - Nightclubbing
Van Morrison - Into the Music
Leftfield - Leftism

Sorry, difficult to stop.....

Tempo

Reading your post made me realise my smiths ommision.

The queen is dead is IMO the best british band album of the 80's . Saw Morrisey at the Albert Hall last week and he was really entertaining, especially when he dusted off a couple of classic Smiths tunes. This band were a one off.

I did listen to some of this on recommendation from this place (maybe it was you John?). I suspect you only out it in the list for dozy's sake...it reduced my IQ by at least 50%, leaving me with um, errr, doh!

Marvin Gaye - What's Going On?

Still growing on me after many thousands of plays.

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I did listen to some of this on recommendation from this place (maybe it was you John?). I suspect you only out it in the list for dozy's sake...it reduced my IQ by at least 50%, leaving me with um, errr, doh!

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Eh? Not at all! Can't understand that. They are genuinely one of my favourite bands.

They are technically accomplished, musicologically diverse and advanced.

I can understand if someone doesn't like them -- after all, they are still a heavy band; but to "reduce your IQ by 50%"! C'mon Nick, their music is anything but simple.

John.

Its so difficult at least on desert island disks you choose 5 or 10. But it would have to be between 2112 Rush and DSOTM Floyd.

Howard

Stone Roses - Stone Roses for me. Not a moment wasted, every song's a gem.

Was listening to The Great Eastern by The Delgados the other night and it struck me that it also has something extraordinary about it - like The Stone Roses it just sounds right.

It has to be Pink Floyd's "The Wall" for me.

Regards

NB

Agree with

Kate Bush - Hounds of Love
Rush - 2112

will add

Bare Naked Ladies - Gordon
Indigo Girls - Swamp Ophelia

No one's mentioned The Doors - LA Woman.

True classic.

...of course is the best album in following classes:

Pop: David Bowie, The rise and fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
Rock: REM, Automatic for the people
Hard Rock, Metallica, Black album
Easy on the ear music, everythin wiht Chris Isaak.

Pronto!

Enya - Watermark
Guns 'n' Roses - Appetite For Destruction

"Murphy was an optimist"

Even my 7 year old son knows it's The Pixies' Come on Pilgrim

Just go out and buy it now and come back when you've seen the light.

One of the first albums I ever bought was: Alice Cooper "Billion Dollar Babies". That was a LONG time ago. Nevertheless, every time I give the disc a spin I love it! I suppose Alice was pretty raw and at his best about this time. It's one of those albums where you listen and think... yeah not a single bad song there!

Must get it on CD... my LP is worn out!

Dave

For me, the album that ever got the most plays was the second album from The Stone Roses.

More recently however, Counting Crows "August & Everything After" (in fact any of their albums) is a fave.

As always when you find yourself answering these sort of questions, I'm sure there's another dozen or so albums that should get a mention!

"The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but you still have to mow it."

I think a lot of our appriciation for music comes from upbringing. where you heard classical as a kid, or that was the circles you were bought up with then that indeed may be more your bag.

Where as dole scum like us listened to the commoner garden music such as steps.

Its a pointless argument anyway if it flouts your boat then job done. For me classical takes too long, I need a big hit and now!. Does that make me thick?

Best album of all time.. Umm..

Something by Pink floyd because that is my childhood music. Mabye Animals, or Wish you were here.