General Motors

Posted by: Flame on 01 June 2009

Hi all;

Thank God! Finally! Something I've been hoping for since 12 years! General Motors has gone broke! The first car I ever owned was a 1991 Cheverolet Caprice (Impala). The car weighed a million tons and despite having a gas guzzling V8 engine it sill couldn't move forward. Being underpowered was the least of my troubles with that car though. Driving it was like driving a boat. The suspension was so soft that you were not able to control the car, get feedback from the road or enjoy a comfortable ride. The steering wheel was so big and so soft that I could turn it a million times around with my little finger and the car would barely change course. Don't get me started with the braking system. You press the pedal and nothing happens. You press it further and your foot starts to dive for miles and miles before a mushy soft simulation of braking takes place. The sad reality of it all was that the car was in perfect shape and being serviced at the dealership as per regular recommendations. It was functioning as the manufacturer intended. Truth be told, as a car, it sucked!

Now I have had the pleasure (not!) of driving several Cheverolet cars since then and unfortunately what they have improved on in driveability was lost on in terms of materials and build quality. Americans just can't build cars and that's the end of it.

Today is a good day for the world. GM has officially filed for bankruptcy. A company that just doesn't know how to build cars has been officially been labeled as a "failure". It saddens me to see that the government is going to help GM restructure and build cars again. Compared to the Europeans, Japanese and even the Koreans, American cars have no place in this world.

As strong as my hate is for GM, I do sympathize with the employees at the production line. The decision to build bad cars was handed down as an order from management and R&D. Those workers have skills to work with and families to feed. I was hoping that the government would reallocate them into the marine, aviation, railway and armed forces sector of the automotive industry and completely shut down GM. Americans can't build cars and I sure hope they never do.

Regards...

Posted on: 02 June 2009 by JohanR

GM owned by the Government and Chrysler by the union. Where am I? Europe in the 1970's?

The worst car I've had has been from the GM "stable":

- Opel Ascona. Everything that could break did.
- SAAB 900 (actually an outdated Opel Ascona). Let's put it this way. The seats where good.

Nothing else has come near...

JohanR

Posted on: 02 June 2009 by Flame

I've read the replies with great interest. For me a good car should do very few things right. Most importantly, the driving experience should be a passionate romance. My hands, the steering wheel, the suspension, the tires and finally the asphalt contact patch should be one unit. I look for a conversation to take place between me and the car. There has to be chemistry that persuades me to take the long way home just to enjoy a few more minutes of driving.

The only conversation I had (over and over) with the three chevies I had driven in the past was "I hate you and I hate the person who built you and I hate the person who designed you and the person who hired him! Only if I wouldn't injure myself I want to drive you straight into a brick wall!!"

Regards

Posted on: 02 June 2009 by Kevin-W

It's not really the fault of the unions, Gary1(US); or even the government. Bad management plays a part, but fundamentally GM and companies like it have had their day.

The biggest problem, one that nothing can fix, is the complete overcapacity of the global, and especially US, motor industry. Only one of the American "big three" was ever going to survive in the long term.

GM has been screwed for a long time. It is a company that has no reason to exist - slow to react, bloated, cursed with too diverse a portfolio, poor products which nobody wants any more, bad management, worse marketing...

Same with Chrysler - the company has been a complete dog since the 1970s. Leaving aside the human cost (which is of course considerable, and which must be laid at the door of short-sighted, incompetent management over three decades) hardly anyone will actually mourn these companies and their mostly rubbish vehicles. What are they for?

Ford, on the other hand, may well emerge from this recession in good shape. It's a very well-run company, which makes cars people actually want (that is why the best-selling cars in Europe are the Focus and Fiesta). Just before the 2007 meltdown, Ford's management borrowed a lot of money at low interest and also decided to rationalise their range, even if it meant offloading prestigious brands such as Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin; and ruthlessly pruning models. All of this has left it a much more focused company, with a very strong - and trusted - single brand. From next year the vehicles Ford has been so successful with in Europe (Ka, Fiesta, Focus, Kuga, S-Max) will start to be sold in America, backed up with a lot of heavy-duty marketing.

Given that a lot of competition may have disappeared by then I have a feeling they may do very well.

I don't work for Ford, by the way, nor do I drive one of their cars (in fact I can't drive and have no interest in cars

). But I am interested in business - and I think the airlines will be next!

Posted on: 02 June 2009 by mikeeschman

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
fundamentally GM and companies like it have had their day.

The biggest problem, one that nothing can fix, is the complete overcapacity of the global, and especially US, motor industry. Only one of the American "big three" was ever going to survive in the long term.

Ford, on the other hand, may well emerge from this recession in good shape. It's a very well-run company, which makes cars people actually want (that is why the best-selling cars in Europe are the Focus and Fiesta). Just before the 2007 meltdown, Ford's management borrowed a lot of money at low interest and also decided to rationalise their range, even if it meant offloading prestigious brands such as Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin; and ruthlessly pruning models. All of this has left it a much more focused company, with a very strong - and trusted - single brand. From next year the vehicles Ford has been so successful with in Europe (Ka, Fiesta, Focus, Kuga, S-Max) will start to be sold in America, backed up with a lot of heavy-duty marketing.

Given that a lot of competition may have disappeared by then I have a feeling they may do very well.

- and I think the airlines will be next!

very well put, I agree with all of this. I am hoping that G.M. will be some kind of a viable manufacturer with all the government help, but a good deal smaller.

David Brooks put the danger of the G.M. takeover quite nicely today in the NYTimes : "... An overconfident government throws itself into a dysfunctional culture it doesn’t really understand. The result is quagmire. The costs escalate. There is no exit strategy."

Posted on: 03 June 2009 by Paper Plane

I bought my 4th Saab on Monday. They've been the best cars I've ever owned. I'm hoping the company is bought and they continue to be produced.

I'm glad someone mentioned Holden, there has been nothing in the UK press about their future and I was intrigued.

steve

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by Flame

Latest update;

Looks like Hummer is going to be bought by the Chinese. Imagine the Irony! China buys hummer, new owner doesn't build the military Humvee anymore, the US army has no cars to use, CHina vs. US 1-Nill.

Regards...

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by deadlifter

They will use a proper 4x4 instead, the Landrover, defender

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by Flame

The defender is a mighty car

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by DAVOhorn

Dear All,

I thought Land Rover was going to phase out the Defender due to crashworthiness implications.

It is after all a 50 year old design.

The joke about the Toyota landcruiser and landrover was that the Landcruiser was supreme for 10 years then had to be scrapped but the Landie was unreliable for 30 odd years and could be rebuilt with a basic tool kit hence its longevity.

So what will the US buy to replace the Humvee?

I know the Prius so that they can be considered thoughtful in war.

We need a new MONARO NOW HOLDEN.

regards David

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by tonym

The Land Rover Defender is a wonderful vehicle, its longevity a testament to its superb original design and the process of upgrading which has resulted in a 4X4 that bears only a superficial resemblance to the original.

Nonsense to suggest its success is only based on its ease of repair. Considering the high levels of abuse it has to cope with in its working environment it's remarkably durable and reliable.

I love 'em!

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by JRHardee

Blaming the unions for GM's troubles seems a bit misguided--consenting adults on both sides of the table signed those contracts. And there still was plenty of money left over to pay fat dividends to the shareholders. Unfortunately, none of the profits seem to have gone toward meeting the challenges of quality and mileage posed by foreign competition. Too much of the profit went to lobbyists to stave off such innovations as seat belts, air bags and catalytic converters. And what about Ford's calculation that it was cheaper to pay off burn victims than to make the Pinto safe to drive? GM might not have done anything that flagrant, but that seems to have been the prevailing mindset at the time. Buyers were complicit in buying cars based on emotion rather than common sense. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Posted on: 04 June 2009 by QTT

My mechanic hates and despises everything to do with the Land Rover / Range Rover. But then everyone is entitled to his or her opinions.

Posted on: 05 June 2009 by JohanR

Many good point's here!

On the subject of a Humvee replacement. They could always go back to buying Jeeps. Or aren't the made in the US any more?

JohanR

Posted on: 05 June 2009 by Flame

Jeep is going to be Italian. Hehehehe. Fiat is buying Chrysler and its Jeep and Dodge subsidiaries. Good for the Americans that they are on good terms with the Italians :P

Regards...

Posted on: 05 June 2009 by mudwolf

well there are bad cars made in all countries by all companies. Good engineers are far and few between. I grew up on Fords because dad got a job with them in 62 tho he had owned them before. Cars in the 40s to 60 were built sturdier. By the 70s it was style not substance.

We need to thank Ralph Nader for making cars safer. Remember metal dashboards and side panels? Remember no seat belts and projecting toggle switches that in a crash stabbed you?

Many British cars here weren't much better, Jag owners in CA in 70 would replace them with Chevy small block engines and wiring. That little BMW 1600 was way cute and saved the company but wasn't all that reliable according to a friend of mine. Fiats, Lotus, Jensen Healy? ha! The only european cars I ever saw were in CA back then. They couldn't take the winters with salt and sand on the roads midwest and east coast. Except the venerable Volvo. The latest BMWs and Mercedes are way too complicated and not as reliable as before from what I hear.

GM and Ford made great trucks/vans and I still see old ones on the road, little cars weren't well designed or made. I bought a Mondeo in 94, but I knew it had been designed in Europe and had better handling. Same with my 2003 Focus, I wanted that design and handling.

My 79 Toyota pickup had clutch and seal problems but it lasted 170K miles. The Ford Ranger was rock solid till it got hit at 60K miles. Loved my 03 Focus and best friend has it now, it drives as well as his alfas and had AC and windows/locks that work. I'm now driving an 09 Focus but I'm not crazy about the body design. Great fun to drive tho.

I think Japanese cars are too soft in suspension and generally boring. Not all tho.

Posted on: 05 June 2009 by mudwolf

my first car after college was a VW Rabbit (your Golf), ha what a joke, I loved the gas mileage and parking in tight spaces, but the seals would break/overheat and you had to go to a VW place no one else had tools for those tight spaces.

Posted on: 08 June 2009 by JohanR

quote:
Jeep is going to be Italian. Hehehehe. Fiat is buying Chrysler and its Jeep and Dodge subsidiaries. Good for the Americans that they are on good terms with the Italians :P

Italian Job ?

Posted on: 08 June 2009 by Jet Johnson

.....I don't have a lot of experience with American cars but I did have an 85' Jeep CJ7 Renegade ...great fun off road with massive tyres not so great on the old tarmac.

...One thing though is when it comes down to looks (ok mebbe's I am shallow) yank cars certainly rule ...63 chevy's (with 4 on the floor) Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams .....Dodge Chargers .....Drool ...I wonder how many scale models of classic American cars are bought compared to Japanese or German? many many more surely?

Unfortunately in the real world .........?

Posted on: 09 June 2009 by David Tribe

The Hummer is a civilian version of the Humvee (HUMMWV). GM produced/produces the Hummer under license from AM General, the company that makes the Humvee. Selling the Hummer will not mean that the military will be buying from China. I am not so sure however, that a cruise missile will work without chips that come from China!

DCT