Advanced search

Some Classical Suggestions

Posted by: Todd A on 08 November 2001

The best way to begin is to just start buying and to discover what you like. With Naxos and Arte Nova both offering cheapie discs, this method needn't be too expensive. The majors have got into the act, too, with the Eloquence series from Universal and the Encore series from EMI (along with the Seraphim label). I would go for the Eloquence series first. Then there's the EMI Great Recordings and DG Originals series, as well as numerous other reissue series on other labels at a mid-price point where you get some great artists in usually outstanding performances. You'll end up with some darned fine performances along the way using this method.

Another option is to buy the Gramophone Good CD Guide or the Penguin Guide and buy from those recommendations. Buy one that's a year or two old to save money for precious music. Most of the suggestions are very good, though budgetary considerations are secondary. One helpful hint: stay away from the much vaunted Carlos Kleiber disc of Beethoven's 5th and 7th - an ear bleeder to be sure.

As to repertoire, well, that's the kicker. I would suggest "core" repertoire first, focusing on the Great Composers (Oh, how what follows is open to vicious retaliation!): Bach, Handel, Domenico Scarlatti, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Brahms, Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Schoenberg, Webern, Bartok, Stravinsky, Scriabin, Ives, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Debussy, Ravel, Messiaen, Carter, Ligeti, Boulez, and Dutilleaux. This list and what follows are obviously personal choices – lots o’ modern music, no early music or opera here – so quite a bit is being left out.

What works? If you’ll allow an indulgence, below are some suggestions for works with the occasional suggested recording.

Bach – Goldberg Variations (Murray Perahia is the one to beat for me), The Art of Fugue, Brandenburg Concertos, St Matthew Passion, any organ music (if you like organ music)

Handel – Messiah, Water Music

Scarlatti – Any keyboard sonatas. Naxos has a few volumes available.

Haydn – String Quartets Op 20, 33, 64, 76, or 77 (any mix of any of these works), Symphonies 6-8 (great version on Naxos), 44 – 49 “Sturm und Drang”, 82 – 84 “Paris”, and of course the London Symphonies (Colin Davis or Leonard Slatkin doing the honors)

Mozart – Piano Concertos (especially No 20 and after), Violin Concertos (especially No 5), Piano Sonatas, Symphonies 25, 29, 35, 38-41, various serenades including Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (either Beecham or Bohm)

Beethoven – Where to start? Ah, the Piano Sonatas! Go cheap and buy Alfredo Perl’s set on Arte Nova or go expensive and buy Annie Fischer’s set on Hungaroton. (Almost too good to bear.) You can get one of Kempff’s cycles pretty cheaply. (That’s what I’m going to do next.) If you can stand ancient mono sound, you can get Artur Schnabel’s traversal of most of Beethoven’s piano music on Dante for only $28 bucks (for 14 CDs!) at www.broinc.com. Then there are the piano concertos. And the symphonies. (Too many too mention, but you cannot go wrong with Furtwangler.) And the string quartets. Who here? I rather enjoy the Cleveland Quartet. Then there is the Budapest quartet. Oh my. And the violin sonatas. And, well, just about everything really.

Schubert – Ignoring the lieder since I’m not into lieder too much, I say go for the symphonies. The DG rerelease of the complete cycle conducted by Karl Bohm is hard to beat. And then there are the piano sonatas. The DG release of Kempff playing them all is one of the finest recorded achievements in human history. The late string quartets are fine, as are the piano trios.

Schumann – Symphonic Etudes, Davidsbundlerstanze (Pollini’s new recording is outstanding), Kreisleriana, Papillons, Symphonies

Mendelssohn – String Octet, Symphonies 3 & 4
Chopin – Scherzos, Etudes, Preludes, Polonaises, Sonatas 2 & 3

Brahms – Symphonies (especially 1 & 4), Piano Concerto No 2, Piano Quartets

Dvorak – Symphonies 5 – 9 (Kubelik first, all others second), String Quartets (especially the “American”), Cello Concerto

Bruckner – Symphonies 2 (Tintner on Naxos), 8 and 9 (too many to list on these two)

Mahler – Symphonies 9 (Zander, Bernstein, Abravanel, Walter, Klemperer), 1, 4, and 6

Schoenberg – Verklarte Nacht, Piano works (the Peter Hill Naxos disc is a must have), String Quartets (The Arditti are clearly the best in these works)

Webern – Passacaglia for Orchestra, String Quartets

Bartok – Everything. OK, OK, start with the Concerto for Orchestra (Reiner, Dorati, or Fricsay conducting). Then go to the Piano Concertos (Andras Schiff, Geza Anda, or Gyorgy Sandor doing the honors), Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celeste (Reiner or Fricsay), Violin Concertos, and Violin Sonatas. The String Quartets are a must have (The Emerson, Takacs [newer, Decca set], or the Vegh are the way to go), and of course piano music with either Gyorgy Sandor or Zoltan Kocsis, or preferably both. Allow me this indulgence; Bartok is possibly my favorite composer.

Stravinsky – The Rite of Spring, Petroushka – both orchestral and piano, Symphony of Psalms, Symphony in 3 Movements, Violin Concerto, Dumbarton Oaks Concerto, Pulcinella Suite

Scriabin – Symphony No 3, Poem of Ecstacy (go for that ravishingly beautiful Askenazy Decca set), Prometheus, Piano Sonatas, Preludes

Ives – String Quartets (the Emerson are sovereign here), Symphonies 2 & 3

Prokofiev – Piano Concertos, Symphony No 5, Piano Sonatas 6-8

Shostakovich – String Quartets, Symphonies 5, 8, and 9, Piano Concertos

Debussy – La Mer, Nocturnes, Images, Preludes, Suite Bergamesque, Etudes, Fantasie for Piano and Orchestra

Ravel – Daphnis et Chloe, Bolero, Miroirs, Piano Concertos

Messiaen – Turangalila Symphonie, Vingt Regards sur l’Enfant-Jesus, Quartet for the End of Time

Carter – Symphonia, Concerto for Orchestra, String Quartets 3-5

Ligeti – Etudes, String Quartets, Violin Concerto, Piano Concerto, Horn Trio

Boulez – Piano Sonatas 1 & 2 (Pollini’s version of number 2 is astounding), Sur Incises, Repons

Dutilleaux – Cello Concerto, Ainsi la nuit, Symphonies

[This message was edited by Todd Arola on THURSDAY 08 November 2001 at 23:07.]

Posted on: 08 November 2001 by Former member
A very good list, Todd.

Only a couple of points of disagreement. I would suggest avoiding the Penguin guide completely - its recommendations are totally unreliable.

I also completely disagree on the Kleiber Beethoven 5 & 7 - I think these are great performances. To re-hash an argument I had with Vuk some years ago now (may his memory be revered!), I don't think recommending ancient recordings in awful sound (such as Furtwangler) is going to enourage a lot of people to try classical music. This is particularly true when the performances, though distinctive, represent a historical performance style which is far from authentic (such as Furtwangler).

Otherwise, that's an impressive list of recommendations you've put together which I would certainly encourage others to explore.

Ross

Posted on: 08 November 2001 by Former member
I have received a communication from His Holiness in Exile, who expresses his extreme disapproval at including Ravel's Bolero on Todd's list. His Holiness wishes he could take the piss out of Todd for including this but for obvious reasons is unable to do so.

Our esteemed leader in all things connected with Vukism is glad that the Rachmaninov piano concertos did not make the cut. Personally, however, I like the concertos and think they are essential for all aspiring classical listeners. I recommend the Ashkenazy/Previn set on Decca, and as a special addition, Martha Arherich's no. 3 on Phillips.

Ross
Vukists Unite!

Posted on: 08 November 2001 by Todd A
quote:
[Mr. Vuksonovic] expresses his extreme disapproval at including Ravel's Bolero on Todd's list. His Holiness wishes he could take the piss out of Todd for including this but for obvious reasons is unable to do so.

Since Vuk cannot respond, I shall simply state that he is cleary upset because he knows that Bolero is the finest orchestral work of the 20th Century and wanted to proclaim that himself! razz

If he is not careful, I shall start a thread extolling the virtues of Bruce Springsteen.

Posted on: 08 November 2001 by Ian Preston
A good list, certainly classical listeners are spoiled with the volume of recorded music. Vinyl even more so. I have a penguin guide and use it generally. I agree with your assessment of kleibers(carlos) beethoven. A very dry recording.
Can I add my own personal favourite. Mercurys living presence label. Janis's recording of rachmaninoffs 2/3rd piano concs' is my absolute favourite cd recording.
Posted on: 09 November 2001 by von zipper
Todd,
Many thanks for your recommendations. It certainly helps in directing me where to start. I very often find the greatest problem is hearing a piece of music either from Radio or t.v and then not being able to find out who it was...or worse ,knowing the composer but not being able to find that specific recording. I had a similar problem when I started investigating Jazz. It's just a matter of finding what appeals to my ears I guess. But at least I'm a bit more prepared now smile
Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Former member
You missed out Vaughan Williams - symphonies especially, plus the tallis fantasia. Plus I would want some early polyphony. Also Copeland.

dozy

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Former member
Hi,

Nice list Todd, thanx.

Comments :

1. In general, I would like to stress, for novices, the importance of performance over price. A cheap cd with a bad performance did not only cost you money, it also takes space and prevents you from enjoying the same work under a better performance. This is not the place to save. Naxos has some great recordings nontheless !
(Second hand shops are a good place to hear performances.)

2. I don't like the Penguin guide. "Classical CD" magazine etc., are a much better bet, also you get the sampler. And consider, one doesn't have to start with the "essentials" only, it's nice exploring something on your own.

3. Expectedly, I cannot agree with the Goldberg not being Gould's '81 recording, though Perahia is certainly more "original" than this.

4. Who's your favourite in Scarlatti sonatas ? I used to like Pogorelich, I can't stand this now, it's one Christian Zachrias for me on EMI.

5. Also, IMO one Haydn quartet is enough for starters, there are other Bachs and Beethovens to be had before these.

6. Vaughan Williams ? you must be joking, what about Vivaldi, Boccherini or Britten ??

6. I wish Vuk could slag off Todd's list for some reason he would surely find :-)


Omer.

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Todd A
quote:
2. I don't like the Penguin guide

I don't rely on it at all, though for complete beginners it can have some value. I vastly prefer the Gramophone guide. Nothing like decades of comparative reviews to make a more informed decision.


quote:
4. Who's your favourite in Scarlatti sonatas ?

Scott Ross


quote:
5. Also, IMO one Haydn quartet is enough for starters

I have to disagree here. Haydn is the supreme master of string quartet composition. No one - not Bartok, not Shostakovich, not even (late) Beethoven - can match his contribution in this medium. These works are among the finest artistic achievements of the last 10000 years.

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Former member
Scott Ross ? never heard him. Just had a Horowitz at my house, he plays it too much like Bach IMO, forgetting a bit the other, more "classical period" face.

About Haydn - don't get me wrong, I have the famous ones ("Sun" Op. 20, 33 and the the "Duke" (? with the french hymn) and some others) mostly with Kodaly on Naxos and some Vinyl I cannot remember. But for beginners I wouldn't delve that deep - this is nothing crucial, only different priorities, (e.g., I'd put Brahms' Cello sonatas or Bach's Cello suites or more keyboard before)

Omer.

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Todd A
Try this posting for a description of Scarlatti and Scott Ross

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=38019385&m=9711994303

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Former member
Wow, Todd, this is a great posting, thanx !!!! I also think D. Scaralatti has some sonatas that are simply the perfect music. Full of expression yet artfully structured, light footed yet so deep and involving.

So I must hear Scott Ross. I am not afraid of Harpsichord, so there's a chance...

Thanx.

Omer.

Posted on: 09 November 2001 by Peter Litwack
Todd-

Great list. A few comments/additions:

Brahms - his late piano works, Ops. 116, 117, 118, and 119 are supremely profound. Check out Richter, especially his incomparable acount of the e-flat minor Intermezzo Op.118, #6. What about the Clarinet Quintet?

Schumann - I've always felt that the greatest performances of the great Schumann piano works were by Alfred Cortot. Terrible, ancient sound, but simply magical!

Haydn - I tried to get through a lot of his Quartets, but always found myself putting on Mozart instead - Mozart's String Quintets and Clarinet Quintet are a must, too!

What about Sibelius and Nielsen?

And yes, I love Scott Ross doing Scarlatti. I also have an old DGG vinyl of a Ralph Kirkpatrick recital where he plays 3 Scarlatti sonatas like a man possessed - I guess he was!

Posted on: 10 November 2001 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Todd,

A good list. I think like Ross, I would disagree in that I think the Kleiber Beethoven are great performances (particularly the 5th) and the recordings OK, if lacking atmosphere. Also I'm not a great fan of the Penguin guide. The Gramofile online at gramophone.co.uk I find much more useful. As always it's more about having some idea of what the reviewers likes and dislikes and aligning with your own.

On your list the one thing really lacking is the area of the voice and opera (as you highlighted). To see Boulez and Dutilleaux in the list, but no Wagner, Richard Strauss (incl Four Last Songs), Verdi (incl. Requiem) or Puccini seems a bit odd.

As far as you list, it's too long to comment in detail. A few things I would want on my list:

Bach: Mass in B Minor. This is a must have. As is some of the cantatas, keyboard works - probably more accessible than the Art of Fugue.

Beethoven and Schubert: I would like to see some of Stephen Bishop-Kovacevich pianos sonatas in there. I think his Beethoven Op 110 and Schubert D960 are amongst my favourite recordings.

Bruckner: I'd start people on symphonies 7 and 4, which I think are the easiest to assimilate. Then 9, 8 6 and 5.

Bartok: Duke Bluebeards Castle

Stravinsky: Les Noces, Oedipus Rex

Debussy: Jeux

Ligeti: Requiem, Lux Aeterna, Atmospheres

Sibelius and Nielsen would also be high on my list for inclusion.

David

Posted on: 14 November 2001 by Former member
I wasn't joking about RVW. His music is sadly neglected compared with Elgar and Britten for example. It is very emotional, very ambitious, and extremely varied. My fav is probably the Sea Symphony, but I love Flos Campi too.

dozy.

Posted on: 21 November 2001 by Claus
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:

Our esteemed leader in all things connected with Vukism is glad that the Rachmaninov piano concertos did not make the cut. Personally, however, I like the concertos and think they are essential for all aspiring classical listeners. I recommend the Ashkenazy/Previn set on Decca, and as a special addition, Martha Arherich's no. 3 on Phillips.



Ross, Have you tried Van Cliburn's recording (on RCA) of no. 2??? For me this is unsurpassed!

Claus

Posted on: 21 November 2001 by Former member
Claus,

Yes, I've heard it (once) and remember thinking it was very good, but I'm not familiar enough with it to offer a view on how it compares with other performances.

I wonder if Remo Jalfrezi has an opinion on this, since I understand he has some strong views on classical music.

Ross

Posted on: 21 November 2001 by JamH
Re schostokovich -- include symphony 10

What about Orff -- Carmina Burana is fun !!

Posted on: 22 November 2001 by Former member
quote:
Re schostokovich -- include symphony 10
What about Orff -- Carmina Burana is fun !!

I don't know how you can mention Shostakovich and Orff in the same context. Shostakovich was a courageous man and a great composer. Orff was a backward-looking fascist sympathiser, and the Carmina Burana is crypto fascist drivel.

Posted on: 22 November 2001 by Claus
I have CB too, an old DG recording with Eugen Jochum (spelling?). Fascinating stuff, if you're in the mood for it. Has some very beautiful parts as well.

Ross, I will give the no. 3 you mentioned a try when I find it.

Claus

Posted on: 22 November 2001 by Matthew T
Todd,

Thought you might find this an interesting read on great composers.

Great Composers?

Don't necessarily agree of course.

Walton as well...

Matthew

Posted on: 22 November 2001 by Matthew T
I have found Gramophone very good. Their recommendations have alwyas been good, musically if not in terms of recording quality.

Any one interested in there recommendations (basic libary type thing) I have it file somewhere, and there top 100. Email me and I will send it.

cheers

Matthew

Posted on: 24 November 2001 by Former member
I know my suggestion is going to be rather obvious but there is a clever bit.

The suggestion is to listen to Radio 3. Just have your radio tuned into that all the time and after a while you'll start to get to know the programmes you like etc. There are many programmes which aren't classical music incidentally.

Now the clever bit:

At the BBC's web site for
Radio 3 they have the playlist for each day in each programme. This means that when you hear something you like then even if you don't completely catch the name of it you can usually fairly easily find it in the playlist for that programme. I find this to be invaluable because I'm always hearing things on the radio I like but not quite getting the name etc. right.

These playlists are kept for some considerable time actually.

Of course once you've looked up what you want you can then buy it on-line. In fact today I ordered two CDs,

Schoenberg "Gurrelieder"

and

Abbey Lincoln's "Abbey is Blue" album

bits of which were played on Radio 3 today and I was able to just look them up on the respective playlists to make sure I'd got the names right and then I ordered them from Amazon.

Posted on: 16 April 2002 by Cheese
quote:
Thought you might find this an interesting read on great composers.

URL:Great Composers?

Don't necessarily agree of course.


Sorry, but this web page is utter crap to me - Chopin not a great composer because he didn't have a good knowledge of orchestration ? All right. His orchestrations weren't perfect, so let's throw away his piano music too. He was an absolute genius of the piano but don't listen to it BECAUSE HE WAS A BAD COMPOSER.

Concerning Bach, I've been listening to his music very extensively for 20 years and I can assure the writer of the page that I NEVER found any of his music boring, were it just for a second.

Johann Strauss ? In some ways, I compare him to ABBA. Quite simple stuff but so marvellously tuneful - it is still very much appreciated all over the world more than 100 years later. The day this frustrated reviewer can achieve that, I'll buy him a drink.

William Walton the only good composer in all fields ? Tee hee.

The author should probably have a look at the movie Dead Poets Society.

Cheese