Naim DAC -vs- Benchmak DAC1
Posted by: Mr Underhill on 05 February 2010
I thought I'd write a few paragraphs comparing the Benchmark DAC1 to the Naim DAC.
I got a call form my dealer yesterday to say that they had had a delivery of hens teeth, and so decided to take a morning off.
I arrived equipped with:
Dell D820, Foobar2000, CMP, MTech; and
Benchmark DAC1.
I arrived to find it in situ as a part of a system comprising:
Naim CD5XS
Naim PS
Naim DAC
Naim 555PS
Naim Hiline
Naim Amps
Focal Speakers.
I set up the laptop and we did a comparison between the CD front end and the laptop using 'Dark Side of the Moon', and the winner was?
For me the laptop, but the Naim did some things better.
The laptop resolved far more information and delivered the music in a controlled way that retained the passion but allowed you to follow the different parts of the mix. The CD front end was more smeared, but highlighted what was happening with the cymbals, and gave the drums a real punch.
Having listened to the fully fettled Naim DAC fed by the laptop for a while we switched in the BM Dac1, which sounded very thin and digital!
We now went through a series of changes, removing the Naim advantages: HiLine and 555PS.
We were listening to a 9624 version of Fleetwood Mac Rumours. Through my system I had never realised what a poorly produced work this is, on digital.
Through the fully fettled Naim DAC it was still a curates egg, good in parts. Through the bare DAC it was difficult to listen to; in fact I preferred the BM DAC1 - which presented fewer digital jangles.
Both the 555PS and the HiLine made a huge difference.
I think a lot of this is down to system synergies. Naim amps can sound very good, but the can equally be ruthlessly unforgiving.
Listening to this same track later on the bare Naim DAC through my EAR amps and Living Voice speakers was an enjoyable experience, allowing me to concentrate on the positives; but now I'm getting ahead of myself.
We now listened to two hours of music: Beatles; Porcupine Tree; Rolling Stones; Alice Cooper; Jethro Tull; Bob Marley; Annie Lennox .....and the rest.
The fully fettled Naim DAC is fantastic, and pounds the BM Dac1 into the dust.
The bear Naim DAC is excellent, with good recordings. Better than the BM Dac1? Haven't decided yet. For me the usefulness of the Naim DAC includes its use as a digital hub, allowing me to stream Spotify via an iPod Touch and play my DVD5 music DVDs without swopping cables; even if it is 'only' as good as the BM Dac1. In fact we had a great time using a SONOS WiFi front end streaming 128Kbps streams from Napster into the DAC, sounded amazingly good!
It highlights for me the HiDef vs CD debate. Having listened to a reasonable number of HiDef files my feelings are that whether something is HiDef is VERY much of secondary importance, it is about how well the music has been mastered that matters. 16/44.1 can sound spectacularly good. HiDef can be poor. I am resisting writing, but LP is best! Why? Because some aspects of digital music are jaw droppingly good.
BM Dac 1 vs Naim
I have bought the DAC home, and am sitting listening to it as I type.
This is now feeding a pair of Living Voice Auditorium II via EAR 861 / 534.
To maintain variables I am outputting via the phono using the same cable I use for the BM Dac1.
It is at least as good as the BM Dac1. In fact I am noticing things in the music, in terms of rhythmic counterpoints, that had not been clear before.
I do not intend to waste time switching back and forth between DACs.
I am going to listen to the bare Naim DAC for an extended period.
Tomorrow morning at 10am I will switch it back to the Benchmark, then I'll know.
I am wondering what would happen if I used a Hiline!
Unfortunately whatever I decide this box has to go back to my dealer, it has another seven people to circulate round.
I have agreed that if I do buy it I will have first refusal on this demo modal, not that I am paranoid!
My thanks to Jason & Mike.
M
I got a call form my dealer yesterday to say that they had had a delivery of hens teeth, and so decided to take a morning off.
I arrived equipped with:
Dell D820, Foobar2000, CMP, MTech; and
Benchmark DAC1.
I arrived to find it in situ as a part of a system comprising:
Naim CD5XS
Naim PS
Naim DAC
Naim 555PS
Naim Hiline
Naim Amps
Focal Speakers.
I set up the laptop and we did a comparison between the CD front end and the laptop using 'Dark Side of the Moon', and the winner was?
For me the laptop, but the Naim did some things better.
The laptop resolved far more information and delivered the music in a controlled way that retained the passion but allowed you to follow the different parts of the mix. The CD front end was more smeared, but highlighted what was happening with the cymbals, and gave the drums a real punch.
Having listened to the fully fettled Naim DAC fed by the laptop for a while we switched in the BM Dac1, which sounded very thin and digital!
We now went through a series of changes, removing the Naim advantages: HiLine and 555PS.
We were listening to a 9624 version of Fleetwood Mac Rumours. Through my system I had never realised what a poorly produced work this is, on digital.
Through the fully fettled Naim DAC it was still a curates egg, good in parts. Through the bare DAC it was difficult to listen to; in fact I preferred the BM DAC1 - which presented fewer digital jangles.
Both the 555PS and the HiLine made a huge difference.
I think a lot of this is down to system synergies. Naim amps can sound very good, but the can equally be ruthlessly unforgiving.
Listening to this same track later on the bare Naim DAC through my EAR amps and Living Voice speakers was an enjoyable experience, allowing me to concentrate on the positives; but now I'm getting ahead of myself.
We now listened to two hours of music: Beatles; Porcupine Tree; Rolling Stones; Alice Cooper; Jethro Tull; Bob Marley; Annie Lennox .....and the rest.
The fully fettled Naim DAC is fantastic, and pounds the BM Dac1 into the dust.
The bear Naim DAC is excellent, with good recordings. Better than the BM Dac1? Haven't decided yet. For me the usefulness of the Naim DAC includes its use as a digital hub, allowing me to stream Spotify via an iPod Touch and play my DVD5 music DVDs without swopping cables; even if it is 'only' as good as the BM Dac1. In fact we had a great time using a SONOS WiFi front end streaming 128Kbps streams from Napster into the DAC, sounded amazingly good!
It highlights for me the HiDef vs CD debate. Having listened to a reasonable number of HiDef files my feelings are that whether something is HiDef is VERY much of secondary importance, it is about how well the music has been mastered that matters. 16/44.1 can sound spectacularly good. HiDef can be poor. I am resisting writing, but LP is best! Why? Because some aspects of digital music are jaw droppingly good.
BM Dac 1 vs Naim
I have bought the DAC home, and am sitting listening to it as I type.
This is now feeding a pair of Living Voice Auditorium II via EAR 861 / 534.
To maintain variables I am outputting via the phono using the same cable I use for the BM Dac1.
It is at least as good as the BM Dac1. In fact I am noticing things in the music, in terms of rhythmic counterpoints, that had not been clear before.
I do not intend to waste time switching back and forth between DACs.
I am going to listen to the bare Naim DAC for an extended period.
Tomorrow morning at 10am I will switch it back to the Benchmark, then I'll know.
I am wondering what would happen if I used a Hiline!
Unfortunately whatever I decide this box has to go back to my dealer, it has another seven people to circulate round.
I have agreed that if I do buy it I will have first refusal on this demo modal, not that I am paranoid!
My thanks to Jason & Mike.
M
Mr Underhill, I should note that you listen a pretty same scope of music as I do 
I can't comment on Naim DAC as it didn't arrive yet.
BM has a very different sound from Naim so possibly your observation was biased with your personnel sound preferences. Except sound resolution. This is something which is not related to presentation and can be evaluated quite independently. If Foobar/MTech/BM DAC1 was more resolving than CD5XS/DAC then there should be something VERY wrong in Naim designs. Or your system.
Are you sure Naim setup was warmed up?
Can you also specify what do you mean by "Naim PS" in your list and what was the poweramp?
Cheers!
I can't comment on Naim DAC as it didn't arrive yet.
BM has a very different sound from Naim so possibly your observation was biased with your personnel sound preferences. Except sound resolution. This is something which is not related to presentation and can be evaluated quite independently. If Foobar/MTech/BM DAC1 was more resolving than CD5XS/DAC then there should be something VERY wrong in Naim designs. Or your system.
Are you sure Naim setup was warmed up?
Can you also specify what do you mean by "Naim PS" in your list and what was the poweramp?
Cheers!
quote:
Are you sure Naim setup was warmed up?
Don't worry - the longest any of our Naim dem kit is left unpowered for is the journey from the shop floor to the dem room (at max, 30 feet).
All of our dem kit is kept powered in the shop so we know there are no potential performance issues with cold kit.
Mr U... a pleasure to see you yesterday on my return to the store.... we'll see you later today.
All the best
M
Sure and a few others but for the stand alones commonly discussed here, my personal ranking would be, BM<L<D2<<ND. I think the difference in every < rather significant but usage could vary that. I tend to put better interfaces in front of those without and also try them with a variety of sources but I rank at their best as I feel this is how everything should be used if possible. I was already using a TC/PSC with Wavelab via ASIO as player for any serious PC listening before I ever heard a Lavry so when I compared to a SN for instance, I got much better results with this combo than the very high jitter and truncated tos/MAC touted by many here at the time. Brought up that it sounded better in narrow when driven properly which has recently been verified by others with better interfaces but I was laughed at at the time. Made me very unpopular for a while but I knew others would eventually discover a better way.
I just never understood the Lavry/TOS thing other than being a neat sound. It sure didn't sound as right to me in any configuration as to thers here. Not bad mind you but it's 'sound' certainly wasn't for me. It's the sort of combo that could mask rip differences etc and would help explain some varied opinion there of.
How bad a CDP must be if the preferred at the time tos isn't as good, Mac mixer isn't as good, crystal isn't as good, Itunes isn't as good, rips aren't as good and the Lavry isn't as good as what folks are doing now.
For me, the Naim DAC is the first that competes with the better Naim players in all ways when used with the appropriate associated kit. The 'appropriate associated kit' bit wont be popular with many here either but I didn't make the rules 
and have played a lot with PC sound. We still get the best ripped CD sound from playback of the HDX's internal drive and Naim DAC with 555ps. I still need to try a linear supply driven drive with selected USB cable to see if it can compete. My above ranking holds without any PS or HDX but there are always a couple more <'s available if needed. I'm actually a bit put off by how good it gets. It's more than expected due mostly to how well the HDX works as source. I'll be putting in my personal order in the next couple of weeks.
I just never understood the Lavry/TOS thing other than being a neat sound. It sure didn't sound as right to me in any configuration as to thers here. Not bad mind you but it's 'sound' certainly wasn't for me. It's the sort of combo that could mask rip differences etc and would help explain some varied opinion there of.
How bad a CDP must be if the preferred at the time tos isn't as good, Mac mixer isn't as good, crystal isn't as good, Itunes isn't as good, rips aren't as good and the Lavry isn't as good as what folks are doing now.
For me, the Naim DAC is the first that competes with the better Naim players in all ways when used with the appropriate associated kit. The 'appropriate associated kit' bit wont be popular with many here either but I didn't make the rules and have played a lot with PC sound. We still get the best ripped CD sound from playback of the HDX's internal drive and Naim DAC with 555ps. I still need to try a linear supply driven drive with selected USB cable to see if it can compete. My above ranking holds without any PS or HDX but there are always a couple more <'s available if needed. I'm actually a bit put off by how good it gets. It's more than expected due mostly to how well the HDX works as source. I'll be putting in my personal order in the next couple of weeks.I assume D2 = Weiss DAC2 and ND = Naim DAC?
I'm still puzzled you didn't value PWD highly to put it in the chain.
I didn't hear PWD myself yet -- but it's predecessor is so impressive for the money.
I figure out that one of your points is that BM and Lavry did not shine in the past because of poor bitstream on the input (normally Mac/TOS). Today we get more quality transports on the market: like streamers and PC-based. And now it turned out that BM and Lavry were ... damn good?!
And if we arrange high quality USB interface they can rival top-rank CDPs and new DACs?
I tried to translate your wording into mine -- not sure if I was successful
But if this was what you meant then I definitely agree. While the new DACs are coming along with new transports the old DACs worth revisiting with new transports as they may not differ much from the brand new successor. I was so AMAZED on how TP is close to KDS (with DynamikPS) -- it just dropped down my spirits on sources and I focus my cash on amps and speakers
I'm still puzzled you didn't value PWD highly to put it in the chain.
I didn't hear PWD myself yet -- but it's predecessor is so impressive for the money.
I figure out that one of your points is that BM and Lavry did not shine in the past because of poor bitstream on the input (normally Mac/TOS). Today we get more quality transports on the market: like streamers and PC-based. And now it turned out that BM and Lavry were ... damn good?!
And if we arrange high quality USB interface they can rival top-rank CDPs and new DACs?
I tried to translate your wording into mine -- not sure if I was successful
But if this was what you meant then I definitely agree. While the new DACs are coming along with new transports the old DACs worth revisiting with new transports as they may not differ much from the brand new successor. I was so AMAZED on how TP is close to KDS (with DynamikPS) -- it just dropped down my spirits on sources and I focus my cash on amps and speakers
Thought I made it pretty clear that I tried all with good sources. I'd rank the PWD no higher than a Lavry though they're different enough that preference may be swayed one way or the other. They both have sigs that some will like. To me, a SN DAC sounds more correct but these things are different enough where individual preference will dictate direction. Problem with the PS is in the price comparison. I actually like your PS more than the current one. A little smooth and soft but open, nice harmonics and detail.
No I don't think the cheaper DACs approach the better CDPs at this time. My opinion which I guess you didn't get from my tongue in cheek bit above. When in the shop we played a downsampled burned CD in a 555 vs the original 24/96 file in the D2, we preferred the 555. There's more to a natural presentation than the last nuance of information. The 555 clearly sounded closer to the analog master tape and not just tonally. You can point at price but the file types should have also been a huge advantage for the D2. Didn't directly compare other CDPs with 16 bit program but I didn't really need to. I would still take some of the other CDPs over it also. That opinion of DACs vs top CDPs hasn't changed until now.
No I don't think the cheaper DACs approach the better CDPs at this time. My opinion which I guess you didn't get from my tongue in cheek bit above.
When in the shop we played a downsampled burned CD in a 555 vs the original 24/96 file in the D2, we preferred the 555. There's more to a natural presentation than the last nuance of information. The 555 clearly sounded closer to the analog master tape and not just tonally. You can point at price but the file types should have also been a huge advantage for the D2. Didn't directly compare other CDPs with 16 bit program but I didn't really need to. I would still take some of the other CDPs over it also. That opinion of DACs vs top CDPs hasn't changed until now.If you check the Naim library, you'll find that most of the jazz recordings were originally analog tape masters done by my store partner, Ken Christianson. These are played back on the original Nagra IVs recording deck as well so even alignment or head linearity is of no concern. He's since switched to using a Nagra VI digital recorder with a Naim regulated supply as it's the first that's been competitive with the analog machine. This is their 3rd generation of DIG recorder and they are justifiably quite proud of it. It's virtually unheard of to get recorders with 4 mic pre's this good. The IVs was also pretty high maintenance to keep at top performance levels but worth the effort for the way Ken used it until the VI came along. We have on hand many recordings that will never be published. Metheny, Kurt Elling, Charlie Haden, Oregon, John Abercrombie, Jan Garbarek etc. Ken's friends with all these guys and was recording them for himself and their own personal libraries long before the Naim label appeared. That's a lot of trust and good word of mouth among musicians for that to happen. Record contracts limit distribution so unfortunately most will never hear these but of course the material is generally available elsewhere. I've done a few myself when there were 2 venues we wanted on the same night. We were listening to one just the other day after loading that CDR into the HDX.
The IVs was also pretty high maintenance to keep at top performance levels but worth the effort for the way Ken used it until the VI came along. We have on hand many recordings that will never be published. Metheny, Kurt Elling, Charlie Haden, Oregon, John Abercrombie, Jan Garbarek etc. Ken's friends with all these guys and was recording them for himself and their own personal libraries long before the Naim label appeared. That's a lot of trust and good word of mouth among musicians for that to happen. Record contracts limit distribution so unfortunately most will never hear these but of course the material is generally available elsewhere. I've done a few myself when there were 2 venues we wanted on the same night. We were listening to one just the other day after loading that CDR into the HDX.