The Pioneer Kuro KRL-32V LCD
Posted by: ianmacd on 31 October 2008
Hi
I recently swapped out my Panasonic TX-32LZD85 for the Pioneer KRL 32V.
The Panasonic was the first LCD I had owned, reluctantly forced into it's purchase by my wonderful 32" Philips CRT finally giving up.
From day one I was never totally happy with the Panny but I tried to kid myself that it was OK. But I just couldn't live with it's black levels which were, at best, a very dark bluey grey even with every possible tweak tried.
So I swapped.
Two weeks in, I am blown away with the Pioneer in all areas. In fact, when I watch Batman Begins I can't stop smiling, such are the black levels and colour accuracy.
I haven't seen any banding but I'm not getting obsessed about looking for it anyway because the viewing experience has been so good, so far.
Yes, there is a slight very dark blue hint to the screen when viewed from anything but front on but it really doesn't bother me and it just isn't noticeable unless you really look for it.
It's as close to my trusty old 100Hz Philips 32" CRT for colour accuracy/richness and contrast as I have seen from any LCD, ever.
I know the Pioneer is pretty accurate because, as a photographer by trade, I have displayed a Gretag Macbeth Colorchecker chart on screen through the video port and the greys on the chart are neutral.
For me, this is the best LCD viewing experience currently available and well worth the extra dollar (it cost me £1299.00 from Currys.)
For anyone moving into LCD for the first time (which is the main reason I posted this) and not wanting the huge sizes offered by plasma sets, I can thoroughly recommend you have a detailed demo of the Pioneer.
Best regards
Ian
Posted on: 31 October 2008 by Rod A
Thanks Ian for this . Have been waiting for ages for a review of Pioneer's first foray into the LCD market and whether they can attain the same level of performance as with their Kuro plasma's .
I fancy the 37 inch model myself , upgrading from a 32 inch picture frame Toshiba .
Just how good is the Pioneer on standard definition, as most of my viewing will be standard def for the forseeable future ?
Great review,
Thanks,
Rod
Posted on: 31 October 2008 by Frank Abela
Ian,
We have one of these in the shop and I agree that the picture is spectacular. However, I am concerned that Pioneer may have priced themselves out of the market. £1299 is an awful lot to pay for a 32" TV, especially in these times...
Posted on: 31 October 2008 by ianmacd
Hi Rod
I only have standard def DVD (Arcam DV88) and Sky. No HD sources.
The output from the Arcam through component cables is, quite frankly, stunning. I have no desire to even look at Blu Ray at this stage as I am enjoying watching my entire DVD collection so much at the moment it's like watching them for the first time.
You know how on the hifi forum they'll upgrade a cable or add a power supply and suddenly hear something they hadn't noticed previously?
Well, that's what I'm going through - I'll notice something in the background that didn't catch my eye before. It's great!
Sky is also pretty damn good but I am at the mercy of what level of quality is being broadcast at a particular time - and the Pioneer really shows up any flaws.
I daren't look at HD at the moment in case it spoils what I am currently enjoying so much, does that make sense...?
Yes, I would have loved the 37" and only for £100 more but my wife thought it was too big.
Hi Frank
Yes, it is expensive but then again, I paid £1400 in the late 90's for a top of the range 32" 100hz CRT.
It seems in this ever dumbed-down world that all that matters is price, not quality.
I hope Pioneer sticks with it.
Best regards
Ian
Posted on: 31 October 2008 by Rod A
Hi Ian,
Thanks for the info . When my trusty 32 inch Toshiba CRT finally gives way , I will definetly be looking at one of these or even sooner if HD becomes more freely widespread on freeview/freesat and bluray succeeds on the mainstream market.
I think its a good thing that there is an option available for advanced videophile performance ,if you should be prepared to pay for it .
Enjoy ,
Rod
Posted on: 02 November 2008 by Roy Donaldson
Ian,
I think the issue isn't so much the price, but actually the fact that it is so far priced above competitors.
I just bought a new 32inch Panasonic LCD, £380. So, I can nearly buy 3 Panasonic's for the price of the Pioneer.
Roy.
Posted on: 10 November 2008 by Rod A
Frank,
In your esteemed opinion, is the Pioneer Kuro the best LCD picture you have seen to date?
From what I have previously observed, you were'nt always that crazy about LCD pics. Also do you still think a good CRT will beat a LCD model on standard def ?
Thanks,
Rod
Posted on: 10 November 2008 by Rod A
Quote - Also do you think a good CRT will still beat either the Pioneer Kuro LCD or plasma's on standard def, is actually what I meant to say.
Thanks,
Rod
Posted on: 11 November 2008 by Frank Abela
Hi Rod,
In some ways I remain sceptical. These new displays are all optimised for high def pictures so there's going to be some kind of compromise with SD signals. That said, they are definitely catching up. Are they as good as CRT? I'm not sure they are, but it's getting closer all the time.
This new Kuro LCD TV is very fine indeed. on blu-ray it's gobsmackingly good and I can detect very little - if any - motion artefacting when a blu-ray signal is in use, with all the benefits of the higher resolution picture of the medium.
The 5090 is a good screen, better than the G8 models. However, it still wasn't that hot with upscaled SD courtesy of noise. Again, blu-ray is astounding of course. But the KRP-500A seems to be much better at giving smooth, filmic upscaled SD than the 5090. I haven't tried the KRP500-A with blu-ray yet, but I expect it to be excellent.
I think the plasmas remain better than the LCDs but it's difficult to say since the LCDs are so much smaller with all the advantages that brings to the table.
Posted on: 11 November 2008 by Rod A
Thanks Frank for this, always highly value your opinion . As I thought LCD's/Plasma's still making ground all the time . A good thing for me as I don't require a replacement for the picture frame Tosh CRT just yet .
Much appreciated,
Rod
Posted on: 14 November 2008 by {OdS}
Ian,
Thank you for sharing your observations! I've been wondering what Pioneer could do in the LCD department since the day they decided to shut down their plasma line. It seems they are as good (and pricy) as ever, whatever technology they use
Posted on: 17 November 2008 by bwolke
Does the KRL-32V feature 5:5 pulldown for 24p sources?
Posted on: 17 November 2008 by ianmacd
Hi bwolke
I have no idea!
I'm still on standard definition viewing.
What is 5:5 pulldown?
Best regards
Ian
Posted on: 18 November 2008 by bwolke
when you watch a film in the cinema the film moves across the projector at 24 frames per second. On Blu-ray and HD DVD the film is stored at is was recorded at 24 fps.
When you would display the film at 24fps the picture stutters like this:
This is why televisions display each frame multiple times. (This also happens in the cinema)
Some tv's use 5:5 pulldown (5*24=120hz) which means that each frame is displayed 5 times to make the moving image look smoother.
Pioneer used 3:3 pulldown (3*24=72hz) in their 8th generation kuro displays.
Posted on: 18 November 2008 by Frank Abela
I, too, don't know the answer to this question, but Panasonic are now using something called Frame Creation on the (astounding) new PT-AE3000. Frame Creation actually builds an intermediate frame between one and the next which gives a much smoother result. We were comparing this projector to the (outgoing and far more expensive) JVC HD100 and the difference was that motion was easier with the panasonic but the JVC had the edge on black definition (as you'd expect from a D-ILA vs LCD comparison).
Perhaps Frame Creation is the next development on TV screens?
Posted on: 18 November 2008 by HuwJ
I was looking at the Pioneer LCD next to a Pioneer Plasma in a local store. Both were playing HD football off Sky. Head on, I thought they both looked very good but as soon as you started moving to the side the LCD began to lose sharpness.
I have a 43 inch Pioneer plasma, which replaced my 32 inch Loewe CRT TV. While it was on a stand it made my living room seem a lot larger. However mounting it on the wall made an even greater difference and now I wish I had gone for a 50 inch.
If your buying a plasma/LCD I would recommend putting it on the wall and buying the next size up from the on you though was just right. eg 37 not 32, 42 not 37, 50 not 42. However the difference from 42 to 60 is massive. If you don't, you will regret it later!!
If you replace a 32 inch CRT with an on wall plasma/LCD you probably get back 3 to 3.5 ft of room / viewing distance.
Huw
Posted on: 19 November 2008 by bwolke
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Abela:
Perhaps Frame Creation is the next development on TV screens?
It has been for quite a while now. The technique you are referring to is used in many 120hz televisions. Sony calls it MotionFlow, JVC calls it ClearMotion Drive, Toshiba calls it Clearframe, Samsung calls it McFi (Motion compensated Frame interpolation.
It might be good for sport broadcasts but for film features? The quality depends a lot on the algorithm used and on the processing power of the chip.
Edit: Just found out that this technique is only applied to 60i/p material. On 24p sources the technique is not used.
Posted on: 19 November 2008 by Frank Abela
We were using a blu-ray player in 1080p/24f mode and switching it (FrameCreation) on and off to see the difference (which was significant), so I doubt that you're right about the technique not being used on 24f sources.
Posted on: 19 November 2008 by bwolke
Your doubts are justified. I just checked Panasonic's website.
quote:
Intelligent Frame Creation
In order to deliver you the smoothest possible on-screen motion, our high-end VIERA plasma TVs come equipped with Intelligent Frame Creation technology. The beauty of Intelligent Frame Creation is that it uses a complex algorithm for motion compensation and motion estimation to create additional frames for the smoothest motion portrayal from any source. Especially, when it comes to original movie material that is shot in 24p format, 24p Real Cinema technology kicks-in and reduces judder ensuring that original content is super smooth!
Posted on: 08 December 2008 by Frank Abela
Well at least Pioneer have addressed my primary concern of price. They've reduced the price on all their screens except the 60" job by a heck of a lot.