Sign the petition! - An XS Series Streamer

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
i would rather like to sign for 555 streamer ;-)

I would have thought that technically this represents a much bigger challenge and it’s not something Naim could launch tomorrow. An XS range streamer with the functionalities of the Qute on the other hand could surely be launched without great difficulties. An NDX for the XS Series, that's what is missing. Not to have launched one yet must be a strategic decision, more than anything. Naim simply cannot launch all products at once. So the hope remains that it will be launched in 2011. Clearly a lot of Naim customers are staying put or continue to look elsewhere. There are bound to be a lot of existing Naim customers out there who are currently using Sonos / Logitech, etc, and for whom the existing products are not an ideal fit. I’d count myself as one of them and most on this thread too it seems. Naim would be foolish to ignore this market segment or try to force these customers into a direction they do not want to go.

I would just like to buy the qute without the amp, for about 1K should be possible to execute, simple really.
I heard today that a well known manufacturer is about to launch such a product,naim? who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by Holty:

quote:

Originally posted by Alco:

(they could call it the XST, the XSTreamer)

regards,
Alco

N-XS surely

Better still an NDXS

Any orders?

quote:

Originally posted by maze:
I would just like to buy the qute without the amp, for about 1K should be possible to execute, simple really.

Well... in essence, thats it Maze... A Qute without the amp! and in the right chassis that is! ...the logic behind a streamer in a XS series chassis is that if you want a Qute sans amp (as most or all of those here do) its because you have an amp already, and this amp is highly likely to be a Naim... now... except the old olive/CB, they're all flat and wide! and the Qute, as someone succinctly put it... just looks like a sore sore thumb next to an XS/5i/etc

quote:

Originally posted by totemphile:

An XS range streamer with the functionalities of the Qute on the other hand could surely be launched without great difficulties. An NDX for the XS Series, that's what is missing ... Clearly a lot of Naim customers are staying put or continue to look elsewhere. There are bound to be a lot of existing Naim customers out there who are currently using Sonos / Logitech, etc, and for whom the existing products are not an ideal fit. I’d count myself as one of them and most on this thread too it seems. Naim would be foolish to ignore this market segment or try to force these customers into a direction they do not want to go.

I was really close to contacting the Sonos modding dude in the UK to demo a modded ZP90 and home but I got a feeling that something new/interesting should happen soon in terms of a streamer superior the Sonos/SB in terms of quality, and that Id better sit tight. The market is just GAGGING for it... A good quality streamer/DAC @ a reasonable price (without the stuff we dont need) and in a nice flat wide shape!

I would have jumped ship to a Majik DS some time ago but I just dont like such awkward bed-fellows on show (i.e. Nait XS & Majik)... Now, why not the one'box'solution that the Majik DS-i is? because I love my PRaT too much! and it is 2.5K!

But someone, in the not too distant future, will come up with the right product at the right price, I just hope its the green sunset company!

I think Naim would really benefit from a coherent strategy in this area i.e. the qute and Uniti in the lifestyle bracket, a NXS (XS version of the NDX), the NDX and a N555 (high end version of the NDX) at the high end. All with the core functionality of a streamer, radio and accessible internal DAC.

That would leave the HDX and Serve as network products and the Naim DAC to support the CDPs and as a standalone unit for third party sources.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
I wont sign your pettition.
Happy to let Naim get on with it,And just get it right before it leaves the factory would be a bonus.
I am not kean on this let the customers find the faults with the kit in there homes testing that has been going on since 2006 with the n/VI way of doing things though.
Stu

The way I look at this thread, it's more about letting Naim know what some of its customers wish and wait for. My intention would not be to rush Naim into anything. They are doing a great job and in my opinion this petition takes nothing away from the great work they have done and the great products they launched. In many ways these will provide some customers with exactly what they had been waiting for. Great. If others need to wait longer, that's fine too. I think there's simply a wish for such a product to be launched, that's all. The rest we should leave up to Naim because they know how to do it best.

quote:

kean on this let the customers find the faults with

Stu, its not like this at all, the real world of networks is complex and the options for error in set up (routers, firewalls etc) are endless,with our approach we have done much to minimise this.
Nothing wrong with anyone saying what they would like from us here, all good feedback.

Although this is not the Naim way of doing things with regard to a module-built Streamer/Dac:

I actually had a first idea of two half-width cases (Streamer + Dac) that would be sold independently, but that could also simply be joined (built in coupling?) to make up one full-width case combo of streamer and DAC, much like you connect modern trains. That would enable Naim to combine a basic streamer (upgradeable through external PSUs?) with (more than) one quality Naim DAC ... perhaps one to go with the XS-series, the NDAc with the Classic series, and then one for the reference series.

It seems that over time the CD-players are likely to be replaced with more than one combination of streamer (transport) + DAC.

Best wishes,
Peter

To be honest, I would rather see a multi-channel DAC (AV3 if you will) and/or a video-capable streamer than a mid-range or rather entry level audio-only-streamer.

If Santa told me I could have one new box from Naim for Christmas, it would be:

* Reference-level NDX (NDX with a DAC and output stage that surpasses the Naim DAC in sound quality), with

* Alternatives to UPnP for discovering my music library: CIFS file shares via the network as well as direct-attach USB drives, and

* Of course, upgradable with current gen PS (XPS2, 555PS).

And oh yeah, how about a trade-in promo for current DAC and NDX owners? Too much to ask? I'd even settle for Christmas 2011...

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:
If Santa told me I could have one new box from Naim for Christmas, it would be:

* Reference-level NDX (NDX with a DAC and output stage that surpasses the Naim DAC in sound quality), with

* Alternatives to UPnP for discovering my music library: CIFS file shares via the network as well as direct-attach USB drives, and

* Of course, upgradable with current gen PS (XPS2, 555PS).

And oh yeah, how about a trade-in promo for current DAC and NDX owners? Too much to ask? I'd even settle for Christmas 2011...

Hook

I still would like to see a player/streamer without a DAC first to accompany the Naim DAC.

With:

• all the player/streamer options of NDX, incl. internet radio and playback of up to 192-kHz/24-bits at least on the network shares;
  
• the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX;
  
• top of the line digital-out;
  
• no amplification on board;
  
• no DAC-/analogue-section on board;
  
• upgradable PSU's
  

I would jump on it .

-
aleg

quote:

the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX

Not likely–this is a aggregation function of the music server range, not of the network player range.

quote:

I still would like to see a player/streamer without a DAC first to accompany the Naim DAC.

With:

* all the player/streamer options of NDX, incl. internet radio and playback of up to 192-kHz/24-bits at least on the network shares;
* the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX;
* top of the line digital-out;
* no amplification on board;
* no DAC-/analogue-section on board;
* upgradable PSU's

Yeah... it is called the Uniti Serve.

Why is everyone so dead set on having a very expensive PSU that controls analog output on a box without analog output.

Keep in mind that the XPS/555ps is moved from the HDX to the DAC. There is no point in using a PSU on the HDX or Serve if using the DAC.

-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

quote:

the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX

... this is a aggregation function of the music server range, not of the network player range.

I know, but that's the refreshing aspect of my suggestion

There is no need for a UPnP middle layer if the player can directly connect to the network storage like the HDX & Serve do for their local playback.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

quote:

the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX

Not likely–this is a aggregation function of the music server range, not of the network player range.

Hi Dave -

Is this merely an artificial dividing line created by the marketing dept?

If there isn't some technical obstacle, then enabling both product lines to have the flexibility to use any/all connectivity paths for discovering our music libraries would make more sense to me.

Hi Aleg -

I like your idea too. For a while, it has been how I was imagining moving forward to an all-Naim setup. The only downside I can think of is 4 boxes versus 2 (Streamer/PS/DAC/PS versus 555DX/PS). Would have to think about it, but if this moved me from 2 to 3 racks, I do not I could do it -- not enough floor space in my small listening room.

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
...
Why is everyone so dead set on having a very expensive PSU that controls analog output on a box without analog output.

Keep in mind that the XPS/555ps is moved from the HDX to the DAC. There is no point in using a PSU on the HDX or Serve if using the DAC.

-Patrick

Hi Patrick -

If you go back to the "New Naim NDX" thread, you can read Jon_jh's comment about the last UK show:

"...I did ask about the XPS placement and the answer given was that using it to power the NDX removed power supply noise from upstream of the DAC. They found it to be more beneficial on the NDX than the DAC in that particular room...."

So this Naim dealer believed that the PS improved the sound quality of the NDX's digital output (which, as you may recall, rekindled the whole "do all transports sound the same" discussion).

I see that your comment was about the HDX/Serve, but I do not see how the NDX would be any different when it comes to S/PDIF output.

For the record, I don't get the idea of using a PS on a digital source for the Naim DAC either. But I dropped out of the discussion because, yet again, temperatures rose and comments like "take it the padded room" were tossed out.

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

I still would like to see a player/streamer without a DAC first to accompany the Naim DAC.

With:

* all the player/streamer options of NDX, incl. internet radio and playback of up to 192-kHz/24-bits at least on the network shares;
* the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX;
* top of the line digital-out;
* no amplification on board;
* no DAC-/analogue-section on board;
* upgradable PSU's

Yeah... it is called the Uniti Serve.

Why is everyone so dead set on having a very expensive PSU that controls analog output on a box without analog output.

Keep in mind that the XPS/555ps is moved from the HDX to the DAC. There is no point in using a PSU on the HDX or Serve if using the DAC.

-Patrick

Patrick

If you overlook the additional playback features of an NDX, then it is indeed almost like a Serve.

Regarding the PSU, I got the impression that those might be responsible for the perceived SQ differences in the digital domain as well. It would be nice to get a statement from Naim HQ about that aspect, to clear it up once and for all.

But if there is nothing to be gained by a better PSU in the digital domain, I'm willing to drop this requirement for a box which has all the others

-
aleg

Ok I give in...

What's a streamer...?

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

I still would like to see a player/streamer without a DAC first to accompany the Naim DAC.
With:
* all the player/streamer options of NDX, incl. internet radio and playback of up to 192-kHz/24-bits at least on the network shares;
* the network connection options (CIFS/SMB) of the Serve/HDX;
* top of the line digital-out;
* no amplification on board;
* no DAC-/analogue-section on board;
* upgradable PSU's

Yeah... it is called the Uniti Serve.

-Patrick

Didn't know the Serve played Internet radio and had an FM/DAB tuner module...

I'm not signing!

Why on earth can't Naim just put the network connectivity and UPnP renderer functionality from elsewhere in the range inside the current Naim DAC. Then you'd have a DAC that you could put on your network and stream to over ethernet/UPnp, and you could connect other digital sources to. A seperate box with s/pdif out just to get data to the DAC is just daft! An NDX with the same DAC architecture as the DAC but that costs more and doesn't sound as good is daft too!

likesmusic,

I have to agree with you totally.

Justin

Justin, thank you. If I knew how to start a petition I would!

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Keep in mind that the XPS/555ps is moved from the HDX to the DAC. There is no point in using a PSU on the HDX or Serve if using the DAC.

-Patrick

then why was there a recent demo at trade show of hdx-ndx-dac with power supply on the ndx?

....ah, i see that this was already asked by ghook2020

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
I'm not signing!

Why on earth can't Naim just put the network connectivity and UPnP renderer functionality from elsewhere in the range inside the current Naim DAC. Then you'd have a DAC that you could put on your network and stream to over ethernet/UPnp, and you could connect other digital sources to. A seperate box with s/pdif out just to get data to the DAC is just daft! An NDX with the same DAC architecture as the DAC but that costs more and doesn't sound as good is daft too!

i'm with you but people can't just ask for what they want without attempting to understand product hierarchies and where things will fit from a marketing perspective.

we know Naim has to build a product hierarchy but it's either the possibly too high price of the NDX or the possibly too low price of the DAC that leads me to wonder how they will do it.

clearly, removing the S/PDIF is something that has to be done for proper streamer/dac functionality (i don't get this separate box and fixing self-created SPDIF jitter concept). but Naim must prove this strategy will provide better sound quality to what they have already produced with separate box concepts...so that they can command an even higher price than what has been proposed for the NDX when they off the DAC with ethernet. otherwise, one has the Qute/DAC option and/or the Serve/DAC option at marginally higher price than the NDX yet providing better sound. all assumptions. i believe Paul Stephenson intimated that people might be surprised by the NDX. yet, it was still made clear the DAC was an upgrade. does this mean NDX dig out will trump all existing dig outs? and HDX-NDX-DAC was demoed at a show with power supplies on the NDX. even more

btw, if Naim includes SPDIF inputs on these streaming DAC boxes, Naim can still sell ripper/hard drive products. Naim can still also sell a stand alone DAC minus the streamer that they make today.

all just idle speculation...i'm not exactly disappointed with the offerings thus far...especially with Allen's thread about sig out quality among the Qute, Serve, and HDX products.