New visitors to this forum

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For me it would not be beginner level it would be my dream level and it is a touch sad to find my dream level being dismissed as nothing more than a starting off point "it's OK but......

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There are a lot of us here who do not even aspire to the mega-expensive systems. I am certainly one, and there are many people gaining massive amounts of enjoyment from various vintages of Naits etc. For what its worth the amount of people able to lash out a fifth of my gross salary on a CD player shocks me too!

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I just wish these experts could have a little more understanding for potential customers who do not aspire to such dizzy and expensive heights

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We only have one expert here, and that is Mike Hanson

Tony.

I too laugh when someone asks 'should I get a flatcap for my CD' (200 quid used) and the answer is 'Buy a CDX' (£1500 used to RRP).

You have to take the forum with a pinch of salt. I've read that the CDX is rubbish, the LP12 is rubbish, SBLs are rubbish, CD 5 is rubbish but all can be cured by Mana. I've read that the hicap is better on the CD, better on the Pre amp, better on the coffee table. It's better to treat the forum as a fun read - not that good advice isn't here, it is. But the best advice is 'find a good dealer' and 'trust your ears' along with ways to listen.

Regards

Stephen

I have never greeted guests with a dismissive reply, only regulars who can stick up for themselves. But neither am I tempted to spend my time slapping newcomers on the back in a patronising, congratulatory, "Nait is Great, Well Done!" fashion.

Its no bragathon for me just a plain old marathon, and I've pretty much hit the wall.

And here's my troll for the week - Naim entry-level gear is a little too expensive but so is its competition - buy second hand if you can't afford it, Naim service and after-sales is second to none. Mid-range items are a lot too expensive, and I wonder if they're truly competitive at their price point (I'm not about to do a survey its just a feeling). Top of the range stuff represents excellent value if you can afford it since its so good but I despise the Porche badge collectors who buy Naim just for the Name. How often have I seen top range, newish systems being flogged off - for what - The latest load of TAG AV or Mark Levinson? These people are merchant bankers.

And Paul its you lot who created these levels we aspire to not us - and doubtless you're thinking about a new super pre-amp, DVD-A and/or SACD, more AV stuff, with which to tempt us. And you've just made the FRAIM - a giffen good if ever I saw one.

There was a time where I was scraping the pounds together for a 2nd hand Armstrong amplifier - which yielded surprisingly good results - shame about the intermittent right channel and being unable to get at the pot from behind the massive copper plate!

Then I progressed to an Ion Systems Obelisk 1, and a couple of years later to a Linn Basik/K9 for great bang-for-buck. Then I blew about a years worth of spare student cash on Kan IIs+stands (Linn's own ex-demo pair!).

Often starting at the bottom and gradually upgrading is a great way of gaining experience. As too is attending the shows. Both are ways that help place things into perspective.

The thing that gets me is when a certain member writes that anyone without a top-flight deck isn't allowed an opinion...

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I have two systems

The main one being :-

CDS2+XPS/Nat05/82+Supercap/250/SBl's

The second system :-

CD3.5+Hicap/32.5+hicap/140/ Linn Saras

This system is 15 yrs old (apart from the CD player) and was all purchased 2nd hand. The main point to emphasise is that even the secondary system is better than 95% of the systems on this planet. Not only does it sound good but it can be serviced and maintained for many years to come.

This system is in my dining room and is played as a background during dinner parties and I often get remarks from my friends that they are so surprised that 15 year old kit can sound better than their midi system.

So I agree, its all good stuff and should be promoted as such.

One of my sons, will soon be buying some of the 5 series kit because he was impressed by the old stuff. The main reason for him buying the 5 series is that it combines the virtues of the old gear with a modern appearance.

Regards

Mick

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I don't know if that's meant to be sarcastic, but I reckon Mike's posts are generally helpful, reasonable and sensitive.

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I was not having a go at Mike, I was just taking the p*** out of his recent declaration in another thread that he was an "expert" due to the amount of Naim kit he has owned. The thread is here: 'Expert' for hire...

Tony.

Warning heeded, Paul.

For anyone listening even entry level Naim (which I own) is, in my humble opinion, the best.

Listen to it, buy it and be very, very happy.

Andy.

Regards

Stephen

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And Paul its you lot who created these levels we aspire to not us - and doubtless you're thinking about a new super pre-amp, DVD-A and/or SACD, more AV stuff, with which to tempt us. And you've just made the FRAIM - a giffen good if ever I saw one.

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This is a very important point. Back in the late '80s Naim showed the world that you didn't have to spend Krell prices in order to get the best musical experience.

Linn, Naim, Creek, Ion Systems, Royd and Rega blew big fat raspberries at the pretentiously expensive American juggernauts.

Nowadays, the ceiling has been lifted off the top of their range. The market and media seem to have shifted - viewing Naim as a "high-end" company, whereas the middle ground seems to be populated by budget upstarts trying to take Naim's previous stamping-ground.

To me the styling-change has done little to differentiate Naim from the rest of the middle ground. Rather than been special, the magazine buyers are seeing them as another Plain-Jane Cyrus, NAD or Arcam.

So Naim appear to have shifted up the ladder in order to get noticed. No bad thing, but I reckon the company needs to focus more attention on making their cheaper kit stand-out more... and there's many ways of achieving that.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I'm currently using a NAIT-2 with Kans while my big stuff is being serviced, and it does an excellent job.

This system cost me less than £600, including cables.

cheers, Martin

Firstly I started using the forum earlier this year because I wanted to tap into the experience of those who have spent the cash and worked their way through the stages. I found this helpful and even if you have got the money to spend you still want to do it wisely. The high-end users are a resource to be used and respected. The threads about tweaks for no money and getting the best from existing systems are also valuable.

Now the bad bit-there is snobbery regarding system hierarchy and a naimocentric bias which is resited by some but not all contributors. I accept this is a Naim forum but it does not tweak everyones thing and some people need to remember that the whole HiFi thing is about subjectives enjoyment of the end user not a definite right/wrong, best/worst thing. Just a little humility perhaps?

Bruce

I don't really know how to break this to you, but the guy who designed the DBLs is reputed to run his own pair in a room smaller than yours.

Hmm, perhaps this isn't the right thread to make this point in? Oh well.

Martin

Arcam Alpha5 / 7 CD Nait 3amp ./ misssion 750 Le's Speakers.
Rega Planet / Nait 3 / Shahinian Arcs.. ( blinding)

You get the idea?

The entry-level Naim system is a system that many aspire to owning. Many of those also believe that 'Naim - the brand' is simlpy out of their reach without knowing the real prices. I have surprised people in the past with the price.

The second point is that whenever people say something is expensive they usually relate it to prior experience. So, for example, a £100000 car is expensive. The fact it's a Ferrari which does 183mph and provides a sensory experience unlike any other is beside the point - the car remains expensive.

And yet, that is entirely the point. Many people have never heard what a true performance system (i.e. separates cabled together properly) can do. Some people don't get it when they hear it and go for the cheaper option, but most people will hear the difference and they can re-evaluate whether that difference is worth the cost on a proper basis of their experience.

Finally, the third point. It is difficult to advise a person on the point of value for money. Value for money is a balancing act. If someone says they want to buy a CD5/Hicap, I would argue that, based on my experience, the CDX far outperforms the CD5/Hicap in terms of value for money. However, it's not value for money if the extra dosh were needed to clothe the kids! I can't take that into consideration as I don't have all the facts to hand, but I would not be doing my job as advisor if I did not make the suggestion, and I would feel worse if they came back after 6 months looking for an upgrade.

OK - so that was about 20 points rather than 3 but you get my drift...:)

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

But I have heard many demos based around a Nait 3 that were quite satisfying, and I'm sure the prior Naits too are quite good.

And more importanly, there are many bargains available on older Naim gear, particularly in the UK. The prices asked for 32/42/62 preamps (especially the 32-5 which is a great preamp) and 110/140/160s and the Snaps power supply make these pieces practically give-aways (especially since depreciation is nearly nil). Similarly, used LP12s in the UK are very undervalued (not so much in the US). Great, soul-satisfying sound is available without breaking the bank. Only with cd players is it expensive to get something very good.

That said, the problem is that most all of us want MORE. If I won the lottery the first thing I'd buy is an apartment, and the second thing is a top-end Naim system. But my serious hi-fi upgrading didn't occur until a)I was buying pretty much all the music I can handle (actually, a peek at my unplayed pile would indicate I buy more than I can handle) and b)my meager income rose to mediocre levels (though it is likely to fall again).

Music comes first--and the hi-fi is only a vehicle. If the choice is between expanding your musical horizons and getting better sound--get the cheapest acceptable sound and buy as many records/cds as you can. But when you have a substantial collection, then it is time to maximise sound quality with available disposable income. For me minimum acceptable sound quality is a Thorens tt, Rotel cdp, 42/snaps/110, cheap box speakers. The rest is gravy, very satisfying gravy.

--Eric

the beauty of this forum is that people can enthuse freely about the way different systems give their owners access to good spirit-lifting music. some of these systems cost a lot, others not.

i believe its very rude and against the spirit of this forum to rubbish someone else's system on whatever basis, especially cost.

i would therefore suggest that whenever such a posting appears, a suitable polite warning be issued by the administrators.

having said all this, may i humbly suggest that nait owners borrow heavily to finance a cdsii/52/supercap/2*135/dbl system -- (surely the minimum acceptable system?? ) -- that way, like me, we can all be in serious serious debt -- and i wouldnt feel so lonely.

enjoy

ken

Don't believe to those who are telling you that all the members here started with cheap equipment. There are members here that were born with NAP 500 many years before anyone in Naim even dreamed to manufactue it.

Arye

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

I would class myself as a geek, any forum user that has hundreds of posts has to call them selves a geek too, and in the speed to create a response, (Espcially to moderators) the point of the original post can be lost.

This post was asking people to be more friendly less geeky, and over half of the replies have been from regulars telling us how the started from the bottom and worked there way up, he was not asking how you started out and this post would not make newbies like myself feel any more welcome.

I think Naim should split the stereo section of this forum into high end and entry level, hopefully people frequenting there will be more on level with the appropriate equipment and questions being asked.

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the problem is that as naim only produce so many different compoments

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Lucky you are not in a Sony (or the like) stereo
forums (if there is any).
Not just much more kind of products than in Naim, furthermore,until you can learn to pronounce a product name, it is replaced by two generations ...

Arye

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I think Naim should split the stereo section of this forum into high-end and entry level

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It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve