Sonos ZP90 v Mac Mini into NDAC

Sonos is nice and reliable, but has the big disadvantage that it plays only 16/48, so all the nice highres music is out of scope. They are promising highres support for a couple of years now, but...

MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

brgds..TC

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

The MacMini is close to silent. As easy to setup as UPnP, control (for iTunes) is via an iPod Touch, barely any maintence needed (need to do backups but you need to back up the NAS/Computer supplying files to the Sonos too). The MacMini also allows you to access easily Spotify and video content, neither are possible with Linn DS.

Yes full Amarra is $1000 (£660) but you don't need Amarra: Pure Music is $130 (£85) and for upto 24/96 Amarra Mini 2.0 is an option at $300 (£200). If you're happy to manually change the sample rate control in Audio Midi then neither is essential. Output is via TOSLink or add a M2Tech HiFace (£100) to improve the SPDIF output. Added to the price of a Mac Mini (£650) it's less than £1000 including Pure Music, an iPod Touch for control and a HiFace.

I'm not saying Linn DS isn't a viable alternative, but the claims of Yeti are a little far from the mark. Equally you could buy/build a low powered Atom based Windows or Linux PC.

Eloise

The problem with saying something is noisy is that it's really subjective. A friend once said my hifi was unlivable with because of the transformer hum which I couldn't even hear.

The Mini is indeed almost silent to my ears too but I know for some it is way too noisy for a listening room.

quote:

A friend once said my hifi was unlivable with because of the transformer hum which I couldn't even hear.

You need to get your ears syringed so you can hear the transformer hum, but I bet you are too busy listening to music to do that. Surely, the point of hi-fi is not to enjoy music, but to pick faults with it and tell others why their systems, that they are perfectly happy with, don't sound so good: I think your friend has cottoned on to this.

I've read lots of reasons why the MacBook and MacMini are not got sources, but Eloise pointed out that these arguments usually come from somebody selling an alternative. The only way to judge is have a listen and see if it works.

I've not been 100% happy with a MacBook Pro playing through my nDAC with optical out - so my plan is to try the Hi-Face and see if it does the trick. I'm using the performance of a USB stick as my benchmark.

I was talking with some of the sales/technical people from Sonos recently and they told me the company had no plans to support hi-res playback due to lack of demand!!

They will do vid stream at some point. Guess what will probably come along for the ride?

ROTF, I'm in the same boat as you with Mac Pro & Optical out - not totally happy in comparison to the USB. I'll be interested to hear your opinion on the HiFace.

Regards,
Huw

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Sonos is nice and reliable, but has the big disadvantage that it plays only 16/48, so all the nice highres music is out of scope. They are promising highres support for a couple of years now, but...

MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

brgds..TC

Is there a difference in SQ between wireless and cable connected with the Sonos. Also, how good is internet radio.

quote:

HuwJ wrote: I'm in the same boat as you with Mac Pro & Optical out - not totally happy in comparison to the USB. I'll be interested to hear your opinion on the HiFace.

I guess you did not get much improvement turning off iTunes Equalizer etc?

Over the months I have experimented with various changes upstream of the nDAC, the majority of which made no noticeable difference to my hearing. Turning off Equaliser definitely gave a noticeable effect. However, the one change that really was night and day to me was swapping from optical connection (OptiChord) to HiFace (BNC-BNC with DC1). I don't understand why. I will dig the optical cable out again at some point to confirm whether the change was a big as I remember.

Gav.

Yeti. I am astounded anyone finds the mini noisy. Thankfully you appear to be the only person on earth that finds a mac mini noisy, so one cannot help but think you have some other agenda.

A mini is silent. Unless your room is two foot long, and your ear is stuck against the mini itself.

Amarra has nothing to do with owning a mini. Hires is perfectly possible with stock OSX software, so factor out the silly cost of this software and you do not have enough for a linn ds. What you have is a bargain, fully fledged, silent computer that can be controlled in a multitude of ways*


*Other computers are available

quote:

Originally posted by gav111n:

quote:

HuwJ wrote: I'm in the same boat as you with Mac Pro & Optical out - not totally happy in comparison to the USB. I'll be interested to hear your opinion on the HiFace.

I guess you did not get much improvement turning off iTunes Equalizer etc?

Over the months I have experimented with various changes upstream of the nDAC, the majority of which made no noticeable difference to my hearing. Turning off Equaliser definitely gave a noticeable effect. However, the one change that really was night and day to me was swapping from optical connection (OptiChord) to HiFace (BNC-BNC with DC1). I don't understand why. I will dig the optical cable out again at some point to confirm whether the change was a big as I remember.

Gav.

Now that you have a better interface and cable, some of those other changes could be revisited. Not that you necessarily want to.

quote:

Now that you have a better interface and cable, some of those other changes could be revisited.

Hi js, swapping from optical to HiFace was the first change I made. Everything else (Pure Music, Amarra, quitting superfluous applications, renicing etc) was with the HiFace. Maybe your first bit of 'tinkering' is the most memorable that's why I might re-visit the optical connection or perhaps you should never go back, only forward!

try some .wav and wavelab as a player/ripper at slowest possible speed if you get a chance. Make sure to configure the out. Not a viable media player as most would like but still the best sound from a computer out imo. It's what we've used for years. Prefer it's sound to sonic or pro tools.

quote:

Originally posted by fatcat:

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Sonos is nice and reliable, but has the big disadvantage that it plays only 16/48, so all the nice highres music is out of scope. They are promising highres support for a couple of years now, but...

MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

brgds..TC

Is there a difference in SQ between wireless and cable connected with the Sonos. Also, how good is internet radio.

Wireless or wired network will not affect sound quality. What it will affect is how efficiently the Sonos can be fed with music data. Wireless networks can be more problematic than wired.

I have a ZP90 connected to my Naim DAC. It really only gets used for radio. For my casual listening it is great.

I have built a silent PC for music playback when I want to be lazy and stream music. it sounds do much better than Sonos.

Graham

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by fatcat:

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Sonos is nice and reliable, but has the big disadvantage that it plays only 16/48, so all the nice highres music is out of scope. They are promising highres support for a couple of years now, but...

MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

brgds..TC

Is there a difference in SQ between wireless and cable connected with the Sonos. Also, how good is internet radio.

Wireless or wired network will not affect sound quality. What it will affect is how efficiently the Sonos can be fed with music data. Wireless networks can be more problematic than wired.

I have a ZP90 connected to my Naim DAC. It really only gets used for radio. For my casual listening it is great.

I have built a silent PC for music playback when I want to be lazy and stream music. it sounds do much better than Sonos.

Graham

you can understand the slow release of high res music, it will take years to pick up pace. .i use a sonos z90 /nas fed into the ndac and for £240 the sonos is very good . im still waiting for a good audi hifi streamer without all the un necessary frills

Rich, do you think Hiface + Sonos would be an improvement? ???

quote:

Originally posted by gazzi:
Amarra has nothing to do with owning a mini. Hires is perfectly possible with stock OSX software,

Yes, you can use stock OSX software for hi res.

One small detail though, it sounds shit in comparison with files run through Amarra. Amarra extracts details and nuances that make it worth every penny of it's thousand quid.

It's a bit like when pro photographers say "don't waste your money on Phase One's Capture One Pro version, just use Camera Raw which bundles free with Photoshop....

Ian

Ian. A mini sounds as good if not better than sonos. It does not 'Need' Ammara to sound as good as sonos. That was my only point.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by fatcat:

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Sonos is nice and reliable, but has the big disadvantage that it plays only 16/48, so all the nice highres music is out of scope. They are promising highres support for a couple of years now, but...

MacMini is noisy and not so easy to setup, control and maintain and you still need a way to control. For the price of a MacMini+Amarra you can easily get a used Majik DS, which sould solve all problems. Sonically the DS is a bit better than a Sonos, bith connected to a DAC.

brgds..TC

Is there a difference in SQ between wireless and cable connected with the Sonos. Also, how good is internet radio.

Wireless or wired network will not affect sound quality. What it will affect is how efficiently the Sonos can be fed with music data. Wireless networks can be more problematic than wired.

I have a ZP90 connected to my Naim DAC. It really only gets used for radio. For my casual listening it is great.

I have built a silent PC for music playback when I want to be lazy and stream music. it sounds do much better than Sonos.

Graham

But Sonos is a proprietary mesh network. One needs to be hardwired into the router or bridged to PC. Very reliable once signal has been established as good.

quote:

Originally posted by Holty:
Rich, do you think Hiface + Sonos would be an improvement? ???

im not spending big bucks the future is alittle doubt full with regard downloads etc ive ripped cds and use sonos z90/ndac and the results are very good. sonor is very secure too , free app for sonos with iphone.web radio is fun and a good way to find/listen to new music go for it

What's wrong with a Logitech Squeezebox Touch? Less than £250, it does up to 24/96, pcm/flac/whatever you want, Control it with iPeng from an iPhone/iTouch if you wish, or your pc. Optical and co-ax digital outs, wireless and ethernet networking, bit-perfect, gapless playback .. seems to get Sync with the naim DAC so jitter is low enough..

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

I have a ZP90 connected to my Naim DAC. It really only gets used for radio. For my casual listening it is great.
Graham

I found the same in terms of the Sonos as a source. Such a shame as I would love them all around the house including one feeding a dac in the main system as the primary source. I wish they would do an audiophile version or I could try one of the modded ones before I bought it

Wazza, It's really surprising with the Ndac. You should try with a DC1.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Wazza, It's really surprising with the Ndac. You should try with a DC1.

DC1?

quote:

Originally posted by Holty:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Wazza, It's really surprising with the Ndac. You should try with a DC1.

DC1?

Naim's moderately pricey digital cable.