Why does NANA hate MANA?

You got it in a nutshell. Such behaviour is unbecoming of an industry about to be faced with recession.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

There's truth on both sides, but the zealotry and bigotry displayed doesn't allow each side to see it. I have no problem with people relating their own experiences within their systems, but to suggest that either side has the universal answer is stretching the truth.

I have some Mana - it works wonderfully under my LP12 and I can live with it's industrial looks for the magnitude of the benefits it offers.

The same Mana, on the other hand, completely destroys the musical capabilites of my CD5, whilst adding a load of initially impressive audio fireworks.

Try it for yourself, with an open mind, is my advice!

Andy.

Andy.

Most Manaphiles read and post here so I was confident that the counter-argument would be amply presented here also.

Also, if you know the answer why not tell us? The fear of jumping headlong into hot water does not seem to be one of your usual anxieties.

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Also, if you know the answer, why not tell us?

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It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

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I've heard the answer to this one but it's not my place to say.

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Does it sound like this?

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Then flog the Rega and buy a Cambridge CD4 (£99) which, on Mana, sounds darn like a Naim CD3.5! I can prove this.

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Hmmm....

As far as I know, no one at NANA has any issue with Mana as a company, personally or otherwise, or their distributor here in the States. Period. No conspiracy theories here.

But it's zealots who set the tone on this forum (and others) with remarks similar to the one posted above. During a time when many manufacturers and distributors on both sides of the pond have closed up shop and declared bankruptcy, this behavior does no one any favors.

Dave Dever

Chris Bell
More Fi, Less Hi n

I have never even heard of this particular CD player but if it retails for less than £100.00, its ok but not up too much.

I would guess that a CD3.5 placed on the floor would sound better than the Cambridge, whether it was placed on a Fraim, Mana, Quadspire or whatever.

This is stretching creduility too far and you know it.

Regards

Mick

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I have never heard the player so I cant comment but if Mana has the effect that Mr Pig claims ,I think it does some of you dont, would it be so ridiculous to claim that a Cambridge on a very good support would be better ,at least to some ears than the "budget" Naim sans power supply, on a mediocre support?

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Cambridge CD4 on Fraim versus CD4 on Mana versus a CD3.5 on the carpet?? Though it may be good VFM in the U.K., it's still more expensive here than, say, a used Rega Planet...

Dave @ NANA

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During a time when many manufacturers and distributors on both sides of the pond have closed up shop and declared bankruptcy, this behavior does no one any favors.

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I wasn't referring to Naim or NANA, was I?!

[This message was edited by David Dever on SUNDAY 12 August 2001 at 21:08.]

The only real zealot around here is one guy known as Mr Pig.

I criticise Mana for its appearance, but I also own a Mana sound table which is placed under my CD3.5. The Mana has improved it and because the sound table is small, I can live with the visuals.

But to be fair, the CD3.5 sounds different when placed on my Hutter. I can fully accept that some people will prefer the sound caused by Mana and no one has a problem with that.

The only sound that causes all the agro is that bloody awful drone which Steve has been subjected to........GET MORE MANA GET MORE MANA. If you don't buy Mana your stupid etc. Sounds familiar no doubt.

I couldn't care if Fred Bloggs mounted his kit on the floor, or on Fraim, or on Mana, or on Hutter or even a compost heap......its his choice.

Regards

Mick

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on MONDAY 13 August 2001 at 04:23.]

Mana has an excellent role model to follow...

I remember reading similar vitreolic debates on paper about the merits and otherwise of tone controls -- nothing has really changed other than the fact that we now have the internet to make the debate faster, easier and arguably less consequential.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

You make an interesting point and it's one I'd not considered.

The only thing that the two comparisons have in common though is the commitment of their proponents.

The Linn / Naim axis set about fundamentally changing the way people viewed their Hi-Fi and what was important to acheive good musical reproduction.

Those truths still hold true today, are inherently logical when one examines them (you cannot improve upon the quality of the signal delivered to the rest of the system i.e. GIGO), and are used throughout the great majority of the industry.

As for tone controls, if well implemeted they could make the sound more listenable to you (therefore, by definition an improvement) but it will not change in the fundamental ways other upgrades can offer.

Now I have no doubt that 'better' stands can improve the sound in fundamental musical ways, but sticking a dog turd on Mana* isn't going to turn it into a diamond, as some people would have us believe.

This is the difference between the two era's, and is the perspective I wish that all stand proponents would realise.

The Mana that sits under my LP12 makes a large improvement to it's sound, but my recent addition of a s/h Lingo makes a MUCH bigger and more fundamental musical difference that had me sat in front of my system almost all weekend, glued.

Andy.

* or Fraim, Quadraspire, Hutter etc.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

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An LP12 with Basic played into a portable radio will destroy any other system not based on a Linn" which is only a slight caricature of what the more extreme Linnies and Naimies were saying at the time

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My how it changes ... from my LP12 manual ...

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You should only have one pair of loudspeakers in the room. Any other transducer will unnaceptably colour the sound. The speaker in your TV set or even a telephone will have a detrimental effect on sound quality.

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Do they still recite this mantra even though they happily sell/install 5-channel AV processors/systems? In fact, given the prevalence of multimedia, does anyone out there still have a clinically clean listening environment?!?

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You should only have one pair of loudspeakers in the room. Any other transducer will unnaceptably colour the sound. The speaker in your TV set or even a telephone will have a detrimental effect on sound quality.
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Hi Duncan,

Undriven speakers are detrimental, driven speakers in a AV system are supposed to be fine.

[This message was edited by Duncan Fullerton on MONDAY 13 August 2001 at 17:12.]

I have SoundBases under the speakers = increased soundstage and blackness = good.

Take MDF plinth off SoundBase, borrow Mana glass =
SoundFrame.

Under an LP12 this works great, under a CDX it sounds horrid - aggressive. The reason given "Mana provides a cleaner window - its just revealing the deficiencies of the CDX." Fine, but if true, God help Mana'd Lesser Sources å lå M. Pig.

I am happy to keep my unfashionable but neutral Base racks for amplifiers.

Forgive me if I feel like the victim of some Marauding Missionaries, Sudan, circa 1862.

I have a Mana 5 tier amp stand on top of a Soundstage. On the top is a Mini Table with my LP12. I have not touched the rack in 5 months but have check the level of my LP12 on several occasions using the Mana Spirit level and it has always showed no change. I have also checked the shelfs to see if they've gone out of tune and they haven't. Chris, I recall you saying before that you have suspended wood floors... maybe this was your problem with Mana. I have a very solid concrete floor for my rack and haven't experienced any of the problems you mention.

If you choose to put your hi-fi gear in the basement (as John Gilleran's pix on the Mana site indicate), the concrete floor does not flex, and is likely to be similar to the construction methods used in many (if not most) smaller homes in the U.K.

Oddly enough, our dem room here at Mana is carpeted (including pad) over concrete, though most of us (Chris x 2 and myself) live in domestic environments witrh hardwood floors. (We're allowed to put the hi-fi on the main floor, no capitulation to domestic concerns allowed here!)

Note that many commercial locations (strip malls, newer commercial construction) will have poured concrete floors, with quite a few of our smaller, traditional Linn-Naim dealers having wood floors. Odd, huh?

Here flies another spanner into the works--wall construction. Some homes in the U.S. are built as plaster-on-lathe, others with gypsum drywall construction of varying thickness--this too will affect, of all things the floors, as some walls are structural, others not so. Structural walls often put the foor joists under compression, and this will affect (clearly) energy dissipation.

Dave Dever, NANA

Steve

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What I hate is when those with ulterior motives play down or deride its effects for political or economic reasons.

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Please stop making these silly side-swipes. Back up your comments or stop making them.

Ebirah, NANA stands for Naim Audio North America

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Stands for two guys who used to say that Naim CD players don't work on glass , then to their horror Naim made a stand which used , you guessed it glass, now they have changed it to Naim Cd players dont work on Mana, at least this week.

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Actually, there's Chris and Chris, I've been here five plus years, a few other folks here and there plus a potential new employee, we'll see...

I don't suppose you've ever played with a Fraim, have you, Paul Duerden? Therefore, the manner in which the glass-to-isolation interface is accomplished is quite different than you may be used to...

Dave Dever, NANA

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What I hate is when those with ulterior motives play down or deride its effects for political or economic reasons.

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Funny, I was thinking the same thing. (Or was that the other way 'round?)

You can always phone us in Chicago to compare notes. Sometimes the hardest conspiracy theory to fathom is that of inaction.

Dave Dever, NANA

So how do you rate the the XX-2? Any good in absolute terms? Any views you are willing to express about this in comprison to a Helikon in the context of your systems? Just thought I'd ask....

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this becomes more apparent with higher levels of Naim

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My local dealer reckons Mana is good for stuff like Arcam that needs a kick up the bum.

He reckons it's counter-productive with a good Naim system.

I have to agree in my limited experience - my only Mana is a reference table.

Martin