distorted sound from ipod.

Posted by: wal riley on 06 September 2005

Can anyone give me a clue what's going on here? I don't think this is specifically ipod or i-tunes related, (although i could be wrong.)
When transferring songs from cd into i-tunes and playing back the same files before transfer to the ipod, the sound quality seems perfectly clear and acceptable, with no distortion apparent in the compressed file (i've been using apple's lossless coding.) However, upon transfer to the ipod, the transferred files crack up and distort whenever there are any sharp transients or heavy bass lines in the music. This is regardless of volume on the ipod, so it has to be an attribute of the file transfer process. I don't believe that the player is to blame, because it replaced a Creative Zen that i took back the shop and swapped for the ipod, believing it to be faulty with the same problem! This of course rules out i-tunes as being faulty as well due to the need to use Creatives (admittedly nightmare) software with that player, and getting the same result.
Headphones are Etymotic ER6i's, so it's not a case of the player's output stage running out of steam.
Maybe i'm missing something really obvious; please feel free to point it out if i am. I don't mind looking like a dork as long as I can listen to music on the go! Computer is xp pro amd xp2400 processor, 2 x 80gig hd's, pioneer dvdrw and 24 bit creative soundcard. I've tried both firewire and usb2 connections, and there is no difference between them.
Thanks
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by Nime
That'll be the iPod! Winker
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by rackkit
I'm using a gen 3 20 g iPod with the same headphones and all importing done at 256 on a Powerbook. Can't say i've heard what your hearing though. I've heard the odd comment about the sound quality of the latest Pods (colour) not being quite as good as the mono display but not to that extent. Sounds like you may have a faulty player. Again. Frown

Try transfering some files to a mates Pod or it looks like a trip back to the place you bought it from, is on the cards for a replacement.
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by Steve G
I'm using an iPod & iTunes with a PC and I'm not experiencing those sorts of problems. Are you using USB 2 or firewire for transferring to the PC? I use firewire although given it's a digital transfer either way I don't see why that should be an issue.

My PC is more powerful than yours but your machine should still be well up to the job.
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by wal riley
Thanks for your suggestions.
I've tried both USB2 & firewire, and the symptom is the same on both.
I get what you’re saying about the ipod possibly being faulty, but the Zen was exhibiting exactly the same symptoms on a different compression format (mp3 at 320kb/s). This is why I think it’s a fault of the pc rather than the ipod. Are there any adjustments I could make to the pc hardware or software that might stop this occurring? It sounds like there’s too much gain, being applied during the transfer, so that any heavy bass sounds just crack everything up (a prime example being “Root Beer” from the ‘American Beauty’ soundtrack). Finally, what are apple like for diagnostics? Is it possible to get the ipod tested anywhere for a reasonable fee?
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by wal riley
Sorry, I should have said that this has not been a problem until recently. The Zen worked fine with the pc for about 8 months before this problem occurred.
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by garyi
How odd.

Just to make sure, you have tried different headphone yes?

I'll be honest and say I have no idea what could be the problem. what I would do though is see if you can take the iPod to a mates with a computer and try importing a few tunes and load them up, see how it goes.
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by garyi
As someone who has had both MP3 players which did you prefer?
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by wal riley
Yes, i've tried Sennheiser hd480 classics,(dry as a bone) and also Sony MDR 71ex earbuds,(treble like a bullhorn - 'king awful!), all with the same result. Also tried the Etymotics on a different source and they're fine.
As regards the differences between the two players, I found that i could get a quite acceptable sound out of the Zen using the Etymotics, but it's when you plug them into the Ipod that you realise these earbuds were probably designed specifically with this machine in mind. The Ipod, with these earbuds, and set to lossless coding, blows the Zen out of the water. Tighter bass, more extended treble, a huge leap in soundstage space and definition, and more coherent timing. I must admit, on the songs where the player behaves itself, I've been very impressed, to the point where i get depressed listening to the hi-fi! Finally, i've got the non-photo black and white 20 gig ipod, for those that care! (£189 at Argos, bargain fans!!!)
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by Nuno Baptista
Didn´t you like the iPOD headphones?What´s wrong with it?
Posted on: 06 September 2005 by rackkit
quote:
Originally posted by Nuno Baptista:
Didn´t you like the iPOD headphones?What´s wrong with it?


Nothing wrong with them. Until you plug in the Etymotic ER6i's Smile
Posted on: 07 September 2005 by wal riley
The ipod headphones are probably OK, but they're a walking billboard for "I HAVE AN IPOD!!!" Liverpool city centre isn't anywhere near as bad as it used to be in the early 80's but it is a city centre and it's best to be cautious. Besides, I have the Etymotics and they are the dog's danglers as far as i'm concerned!
Posted on: 07 September 2005 by Rockingdoc
This problem is widely reported in ipod circles, specific to the new 20GB and 60GB colour models. The problem is one of impedance mis-match with the headphones. You probably need to get the Etymotic adaptor to increase your phone impedance. I'm sorry to say this usually means a separate headphone amp, like the Headroom Airhead, if you like volume.
Posted on: 07 September 2005 by Nuno Baptista
quote:
Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
This problem is widely reported in ipod circles, specific to the new 20GB and 60GB colour models. The problem is one of impedance mis-match with the headphones.

So it is safer to buy the old monochromatic model,no? Red Face
Posted on: 08 September 2005 by wal riley
Yep, the non-colour 20 gig one is the one i've got! Cool
As for carrying around headphone amps, it's a little impractical, as i really only listen to the personal walking to and from the car (it's parked about half a mile from work) and at dinner, when i go for a stroll to get out of the office and get some fresh air. Thanks for all your suggestions, though. Admittedly, the problem seems to be confined to only a few rogue tracks, but I never had any problem at all for a few months, and you know what it's like when you get a bee in your bonnet!!
Posted on: 09 September 2005 by Rockingdoc
colour ipod chat

this is a good place to start
Posted on: 09 September 2005 by wal riley
I may have the solution to the problem.

To get the best sound out of the player, I've been using the 'rock' EQ setting, as it seems to give the most 'open mouthed' quality to the sound plus a tiny bit of bass lift. However, some songs are encoded at quite a high volume level, that is perhaps a little too close to the limits of the machine's pre amp section (I believe it's the pre-amp because the distortion occurs regardless of volume).
If no eq is used, the Ipod can cope, but the extra lift in bass just totally upsets the pre amp, resulting in distortion; pretty poor engineering on the part of Apple, if you ask me. I have tried Thomas Newman's 'Root Beer' both with and without the Eq swiched on, and the difference is obvious.

There is - as mentioned earlier- a
headphone impedance mismatch issue is well, but i'll try plugging the Ipod into my home stereo and see if that has any effect, as the input impedance of the amp is considerably higher than the phones.
For those that are interested i'll include a link to the web page that pointed me in this direction below.

http://www.dapreview.net/content.php?article.133

Later, dudes!
Posted on: 09 September 2005 by garyi
Wal, it might be worth if there are not to many tracks effected getting info on them (right click single or multiple tunes) then get info.

In this box you can set the output volume for the tracks and apply EQ from there permanently.

the benefit there is that if the iPod is always applying EQ it uses the battery faster as it is processing on the fly.

As for poor engineering on apples part, well it could be argued that some tracks are poorly recorded, and that all in all EQ settings are a bad thing regardless of the logo on front.
Posted on: 09 September 2005 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by wal riley:
To get the best sound out of the player, I've been using the 'rock' EQ setting, as it seems to give the most 'open mouthed' quality to the sound plus a tiny bit of bass lift. However, some songs are encoded at quite a high volume level, that is perhaps a little too close to the limits of the machine's pre amp section (I believe it's the pre-amp because the distortion occurs regardless of volume).
If no eq is used, the Ipod can cope, but the extra lift in bass just totally upsets the pre amp, resulting in distortion;



Wal,

I have heard of a similar issue with other players. The basic problem is that the "preamp" and volume control are all done via digital manipulation. If bass boost results in going over 100% level, then you will get nasty distortions.

If you were using MP3's you might be able to use something called MP3Gain, which can cut (or boost) the levels on each track.

Is there an equivalent for ALE- / ALAC-encoded files?

cheers, Martin
Posted on: 10 September 2005 by wal riley
Garyi, that's just what i'd be looking for! Didn't realise you could do that in Itunes. (Big scouse accent)"Sound, laaarr!!!"
Posted on: 15 September 2005 by wal riley
As an addendum to this posting, i've found that you can amend the volume of all the tracks by highlighting one track and then ctrl + A to highlight all. Right click on the mouse to open up details and then reduce the volume control. Then download gopod, to get rid of the volume capping applied to all european ipods and fanny's your aunt! Goodnight!! Big Grin
Posted on: 16 September 2005 by Nick_S
That sure sounds like the user friendly iPod/iTunes software that everyone is raving about :-)

Nick