Audio Counsel and MusicWorks blocks

The new Audio Counsel block will be officially launched at the Manchester Hilton show.

I own one already and can honestly say that it is quite a musical revelation over the Music Works block which I previously owned.

The best thing to do is listen to both dem's and decide which presentation you prefer as they differ quite markedly in their sonic approach.

Regards,

Ian Dales.

The Musicworks is just a fused trailing gang with upto 6 fused plugs, regardless of how much research and mumbo jumbo went into its development.

Don't believe the hype.

Personally I use a slightly modified Maplins Multiway block that cost £6.99 and it more than justifies itself. In fact, compared to the musicworks block and 4 leads I had on home dem for a week it was a complete no-brainer.

Glary indeed!

Too many people think money spent is money well spent.

It aint.

Unless you're a dealer of course

P.

Normal, sensible, everyday advice; BUT

I have just coughed up £30,000 on a top flight Naim system (this is imaginary!) rather than an ML or Krell system, because I liked the Naim sound. THEN I find I cough up £300 on an extension lead and I'm back to ML or Krell depending on which lead I opt for!!!!

Who said choosing hi-fi was enjoyable??

Cheers

Don

[This message was edited by Don Atkinson on FRIDAY 02 November 2001 at 20:28.]

The different paths taken by each block isn't as wide as the Levinson/Krell scenario. Both blocks retain Naim's strengths, however, the Music Works leads seem to be a hard thing to judge. The more leads that are added the more you tred down the M/Works path which can be a subjective one.

The Audio Counsel block for me personally was the link in the chain, far more fundamental than any stand.

P,

I can see where you are coming from with your M/Works experience, but without sounding to much like a fundamentalist, you should a least have a listen to this new block. It's far more important than a six way extension lead deserves to be.

Ian.

Now I don't pretend to be a self styled guru or a Naim hifi swami or anything, I just know what I like. In my system with my room and my mains and my hearing the Musicworks made things worse.

I gave it a week and tried to be as subjective as you can be with these things but I came to the conclusion (as did my wife) that things really sounded better without all those darned fuses in the way.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with anyone selling a 6 way trailing gang and 4 leads for nigh on £600. Good luck to them and all those who use them.

All I'm trying to say is that in some cases (mine) the musicworks didn't work.

Your mileage etc.....

P.

I purchased a 2 month old NAT05 plus a 2 month old 6 way Musicworks block for £500.00. Basically I bought the wireless and got the block thrown in for nothing.

The NAT05 was a great improvement over the NAT03 which it replaced but I hardly noticed any difference after fitting the block. It was slightly better perhaps but I have to conceed that it might have been my imagination wishing it to be better.

I take P's point that at the end of the day, the only thing that counts is how it sounds to you in your room and we all listen differently.

Regards

Mick

Further, at the MW dem (Bristol 2001), I had the same problem. Naturally this was not a particularly good environment, but nevertheless it seemed to me that in terms of cost/benefit, there are many better ways to blow this kind of money. I don't dispute that MW products can be effective -- it's just that I've never yet detected it.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

[This message was edited by count.d on SUNDAY 04 November 2001 at 00:34.]

This is turning into a silly argument.
All I can say is if you like a dirty mains supply entering your hifi to degrade the signal being amplified, then you obviously like your signals to be interfered with!
I thought you would like to discuss hifi and not what I mean by fact or opinion.

No, it is all subjective, but consensus can put forward a very convincing argument...

Nobody here is deaf. Anyone who is deaf and is spending a tidy fortune on hi-fi is not only deaf, but incredibly stupid to boot!

Consensus and my trials of MW leads:-

Using an all-Naim system I conducted a test earlier this year to determine which out of three leads sounded the most musical.

For the control, a Music Works Megablock was used with standard Naim leads. The lead into the CDX was substituted for one by MW, and then one by Sonic Link.
My dealer conducted the test throughout, and I was one of two other listeners.
The tests were not performed blind, but they were repeated several times using the same piece of music: Nothing Really Matters , taken from Madonna's album Ray of Light.

We focused first on an organ note at the intro, which was fully enveloped with the MW lead only.
We played through this one note three times with the Naim lead, and then with the MW one. (We had abandoned the Sonic Link one as kettle flex, when all it could do was mess up all the timing cues in its pursuit of a contrived "hi-fi" presentation of detail, earlier.

Later we listened through a cascade of notes in the middle of the track above, which begin on a xylophone, and continue on a piano. The pitch and timing of these notes came through better with the MW. The Naim one managed the timing, but not the pitch so well. Sonic Link managed to wreck both!

A couple of months later, I installed a MW block, and three leads into my system. A friend was with me at the time, and I let him hear the system with the computer block - now in its rightful place , before switching over to the MW block and leads. We both heard the immediate improvement in midband dynamics and pitch of notes.
(The latter being improved further by using a QS Ref. stand at a later stage - MW and QS Ref. seem to go together, I think.)

As an aside, the MW lead is clearly better into a CDX, but with the CD5, what you gain in midband articulation, expresion, and dynamics, you seem lose in a slightly muddied bass, although this becomes less noticeable as the CD5 is run in/warmed up.
For this reason, I have left out the fourth MW lead - using the Naim one instead, until I get my CDX, hopefully at the end of this year/early next.

That's my take on the matter, anyway.

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

I've made my own that significantly improves upon any of the normal trailing or Maplin multi-way approaches and it costs a small fraction of these solutions.

The comments by Stallion about shielding do raise an interesting point though.

I recently tried a very high current power cord, using a OCC cable with 4mm conductors. It was significantly better than the standard cables I was using on the PA, but connecting the shield of the cable to mains earth, to allow it to work, resulting in a worse sound. The effect was similar to that of a mains filter (i.e. Lingo) in the system.

It did sound subjectively quieter at first, but it affected timing and made the system sound 'soft'.

Did anyone who listened to the above blocks and didn't like it experience the same?

Andy.

All in all - the was improvement significant versus the Maplin 6-Way (i used this option for a year), especially from a hollistic system approach.

naheed

Paul Duerden,
The 1.5mm 3 core cable in your system is not quite on the same level as the "bog standard" cables that deliver your electrical current from a sub-station to your house.
Also, as I have stated before, the design of the Audio Councel blocks allows for a better earth. It is not just the current carrying wires which affect the sound. The earth is the key to the design.
If you have a double socket in the wall, put the plug of the extension block into the left hand side. This allows for a better earth.
As far as people on this board suggesting they have muddled bass or other problems, then I think they should sort that out by changing hifi component positions or changing their hifi components.
ALL THESE BLOCKS DO IS CLEAN UP THE SUPPLY TO YOUR HIFI.

ALL THESE BLOCKS DO IS CLEAN UP THE SUPPLY TO YOUR HIFI.

Are you sure? Is it just that

THEY DON'T MAKE IT ANY DIRTIER

Simon

I'm still using a Russ Andrews Super Socket with a dedicated earth terminal until I can source some of those old round pins.

With reference to the monitoring of your mains supply for under/over voltages, brownouts, harmonic distortion and spikes there is a very usefull piece of kit called a Sontay LM11 Power Disturbance Analyser that can be hired. It's quite expensive but the printout is recognised by most leading Power companies as evidence of a poor supply. Costs about £180 a week to hire.

P.

[This message was edited by P on MONDAY 05 November 2001 at 14:56.]

It's distributed free to qualifying businesses, and Malcolm Steward is editorial director.

<rant mode on>

They occasionally put some articles on the website, but like many business websites I see the new updated version they released some months ago looks nice, but is a total bloody waste of good webspace, since it's rarely updated with anything useful.

</rant mode off>

I feel better for that...;)

There are some good interviews worth reading currently, the Ken Ishiwata (Marantz) is a fab read, as is Ivor T's recent contribution.

Find it here: -

http://www.britishaudiojournal.com/

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

Now just where oh where did I leave my magnifying glass...

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

If we are going to be arrogant, I will state again: THE AUDIO COUNCEL BLOCK DOES NOTHING MORE THAN IMPROVE THE EARTH TO YOUR COMPONENTS.

THIS CAN ONLY IMPROVE THE SOURCE WHICH IS ENTERING YOUR COMPONENTS.

THE EARTH DOES NOT DRIVE YOUR COMPONENTS; THE EARTH IS THE EARTH.

If you find this block detrimental to your system, maybe it's because a fault in your system is being highlighted once you use it.

If hifi manufacturers like Naim knew how to get the best sound possible, why is it that every stand was made out of steel up until a few years ago. I was led to believe The Sound Organisation table was the best 9 years ago, now it's the biggest pile of garbage which actually ruins the signal.

I read that correctly did I? Thats two days ago.

John.

At the time my system comprised a CDSII, 82, 180 and XPS on a Qudraspire stand with my Rega Planar 3 and Hicap on a second one. J****, as I have decided to call him, posted in another place a short (!) essay on his conclusions which I've reproduced here more or less in full – I never got round to doing the same.

When reading the following, please bear in mind
-that only opinions are expressed here. They do not purport to be assertions of fact
-that J**** and I were both suffering/recovering from a nasty bout of flu
-that he can get a little dogmatic at times about matters hi-fi even when he isn't running a temperature
-that his views on Neil Young should also be taken with a pinch of salt
-that this should not be taken either as an attack on the non-ferrous philosophy or on a certain NW-based dealer (whom I regard as the best I have ever met)

Lastly, apologies for the length of this post (not all my own work).

Here goes then (minor editing and names changed to protect the innocent and guilty):

*****************************************************************************************

"I was fascinated by Tim's exploits with mains cables the other day and because I intend to buy myself a hydra (8-way) I thought it would be cool to compare it with the Music Works, especially as Tim's system is one I enjoy. So I went round last night for a few hours of electric jiggery pokery.
Throughout the evening, I helped Tim achieve the switch between MW and Hydra by barking out orders and throwing a few switches... letting him fuck his power supplies and power amp with IEC connectors over and over and over. [J**** is the most paranoid person I know about powering down amps and power supplies – I was really very quick about it : ED.] [Deleted: non-relevant discussion of various gastric flu treatments :ED.]

So we put some Pedro the Lion on, from the album It's Hard to Find a Friend,and just let it play. Tim doesn't know this album [yes I do and did then too : ED.], and obviously I don't know it so well on his system. If you've got even the vaguest interest in American lo-fi then this record is a must-buy. And, to top the cracking,
open-sounding drum kit and twangy, crunchy guitars, the tunes are insistent and the lyrics are sincere ("Winter legs give me heart attacks" - referring to girls who don't shave their legs in winter). They are a kind of lower energy, boy version of That Dog, which means nothing to most people, but hell, I need to make some kind of pretentious muso-comparo reference.

The first six tracks whizzed by. Dynamic, fun, bright, lythe. I was enjoying it all. Then we put the Hydra into the system. Hmm. Not much fun. I played tracks 3-6, which cover a fair range of pace and denseness of instrumentation. Tim and I decided we needed some tea. In
the kitchen we discussed the comparison. It seemed to me that the Hydra was a bit of a waste of time and Tim agreed. Undynamic, a bit boring, a bit disconnected. I said to him that maybe he should get D**** (from Grahams) in to listen to the difference between the two. I was wondering why it is that in my system I don't like the Music Works 6-way block. What's different about my system? Where's the setup error? (OK, OK, you at the back, shut it, I know there's loads of errors and there all cancelling each other out, with this huge residual related to the non-CDS 2-ness of my system. [J**** plays an Audio Synthesis CD player (shock horror) thru. his 52/six-pack/DBL system : ED.])

As far as I'm concerned the difference was all about the reason we buy Naim gear. More music, more involvement, more fun. Armed with tea [non-relevant discussion of the merits of castor sugar versus sugar lumps for tea : ED.] we returned to the front room discussing Tim's thoughts on bass. As I understood it, he was saying that low bass sounds were clearer, more definite, using the Hydra. I thought this was worth investigating, just to hear what he was talking about and see what difference I thought it made. This would complete the analysis of the MW
and hydra, and we could settle down and listen to some tunes.

Track 5 on the album has a simple drum kit pattern, including kick drum. Music Works was in the system first. Then Hydra. With MW the kick drum was a "subsonic thump". With the Hydra, it was like the sound of a drum, deadened with a pillow or something (hey, just guessing I don't know). Hmm, interesting. Quite a clear difference.

But, listening to this track these few extra times, it became clear that the Hydra's interpretation of the music was quite valid. The kick drum pulls back against the drive of the rest of the track, making it more deliberate-sounding. Sure, this is the same as "less fun". But listening again, it made me think, and it didn't seem as wrong as before. Coincidentally, with the hydra, the track seemed more familiar from my system. It's really hard to describe the range of subtle changes in "motivation" that the Hydra makes. Tim and I discussed this and agreed, we were confused. Hmm. We swerved around the philosophical questions ("how do
we know what's right?", "is 'more fun' the right yardstick?").

Tim could sense a rebellion.

El Hombre Trajeado's album Skipafone has long been a dem favourite, principally for the rapid drumming which is quite good at catching flat-earth pretender systems out.

Track 2. MW. Hmm, pretty good. Hydra? Ah, much better. Because the MW seems to skim across the drumming. Making it sound run-together, and trying to hide some of the shifts in timing. There's a bit of drumming in the middle, like a song's chorus, that comes at ya much faster, really lightly, but it pulls you along. We went back to the MW to check. Yep, it doesn't really pull you along, just leaves you watching from the side. Meantime, Tim was talking about completely different things that he heard (he seemed to have a preference for the MW) and we agreed that we needed to find something completely different. I felt that I'd heard a magnified version of the difference I'd heard at M******'s when he demmed the difference between a MW mains cable and a Naim one, into his XPS. M****** was drunk at the time so the dem was rather short. K**** and I both preferred the Naim...[K**** now has my MW on long-term loan! ED.]

The sneaky bugger put on Grandaddy's Under the Western Freeway. I did kinda think, "oh well, that's the end of the comparisons, we'll just end up listening to the whole of this album now…" Tracks 1 and 2. MW. Yeah, sounds like the album I know and love.

Track 2 with the Hydra - ah, GRUNGE. Yes. SHIT, fuck me. You understand. We're talking a completely different piece of music. Cool. Track 1 with the Hydra - oh, that sounds different, what's going on there? Hmm. Tim
and I both agreed we much preferred 2 with the Hydra, but 1 seemed "nicer" with the MW.

A theory was brewing. The MW seems to try to make everything sound "pretty" and it seems to want to put it's own kind of "bounce" into the music, and woe to the music that doesn't want to be bouncy, cos it's gonna get bouncy.
Tim and I had a moment of enlightenment, concerning a certain LP12 and its
supposed characteristic "bounciness". Hmm, spooky. Tim and I became kinda believers in the "LP12s are bad because of their character" school. More importantly, for me, I was rushing towards a firm belief that MW has a very strong character, anti-musical, in the sense that it smothers music in its character, rounds off the edges, de-grunges, prettifies. Or, if you like,
makes your system sound like L**** from Audio Counsel has set it up...
Which kinda explains why M******'s and Tim's systems make such similar music.

Tim was in a bit of a state by this time. OK, let's dig deeper. Sonic Youth. Tim hasn't played the album with the picture of the woollen
toy on the cover for ages ["Dirty" : ED]. This was the first time since he got SBLs. MW.
Track 1 (7 was a dopey place to start). No grunge. Tim was a bit disappointed. Tim's had this question mark about his grunge, since he got
the SBLs, cos there's not really been any grunge in his system. With the Hydra? Of course GRUNGE - I think Tim's a bit relieved now. He now knows SBLs do grunge...

Not only that, though. J*** would have been proud. I told Tim that if J*** was present, he'd have said that the Hydra swung. And the MW didn't. Simple. OK, so maybe it's unfair of me to ascribe this view, but the miraculous appearance of swing was utterly conclusive to me. J***, you feeling proud? I'd reached the stage where I felt I could imagine how MW
would affect music I know, how I'd hear its character coming through. Tim mentioned something about people who have this ability to identify the 72 from its characteristic sound.

Tim was feeling that this comparison was a bit one-sided, so that was the end of the Sonic Youth.

Bartok, Piano Concerto 1. I've got this at home, but since I've only listened to it once I was out of the running. I was enjoying it, but I
wasn't really listening to it. There's a fair amount to get a grip on. I didn't have any feelings one way or the other. Tim, on the other hand, felt a preference for the MW. He felt he could understand it more readily (the only caution being we listened first with the Hydra, then the MW).

Last time I was round Tim's it was with R*** and we listened to some Neil Young. It was devastatingly, sickly sweet. Having formulated this theory about the sickly sweetness of MW, I decided that Neil Young would be a good
test. This is a first and I'm sure a last (his music for the film Dead Man is wonderful, though principally because the bastard doesn't sing - the film is ace, too) - take note! Tim dug out the same album, and played the same two tracks we had for R*** (1 and 6 - 1 is a regular NY thing; 6 is some kind of piano anomaly) - Tim? what's that album? ["Silver and Gold" : ED.]

Hey hey. MW. Tim still has SBLs. I didn't kick them in (I think we might have stopped both tracks from playing fully...). I didn't vomit on the floor. Just. Grim, truly grim. All in the name of science, you understand. (I have to admit the idea of vomiting over his SBLs, whilst
kicking them in did appeal for some fleeting moments.)

Hydra. Grin. Oh, so that's what you call music? Ah yeah. There's a band there, it's swinging, they're pushing and pulling. The bastard whines on, but the music aint this bright red wobbly jelly, topped with Bird's custard,
hundreds and thousands, swimming in ice-cream with a nice cold ice cold coke to wash it down with. It actually sounds like rock music. Radical! That's enough of the NY, though. When he don't sing, the music is definitely worth
listening to...

Tim put some Air on, The Virgin Suicides soundtrack album (the film is good,
but the book is in a whole different league, read it). By now I was convinced that the only way to go is with the Hydra (in case you can't guess) but more importantly, the MW is the work of the devil. It's some kind of schlock-music tactical sabotage. It's like letting some Cadillac-driving, 18oz steak-eating Audio Research dealer steal in to your record collection so that he can pour double cream in, cos he knows he aint
gonna sell you any of his American trash. Insipid. Anodyne. Lacklustre.
Oh, unless of course you want everything to have an undertow of the inanity of the Birdy Song. Truly 1-dimensional - America is its rightful home.

Tim was looking for the soothing, creamy, gloopy sounds that accompanied him in the darkest moments of his flu, wafting in and out of consciousness to the sounds of Air. Unfortunately, with the Hydra, it sounds like a rock record, made with keyboards. Not gloopy. I guess Tim's gonna have to keep the MW just so that he can get those billowing 46F comforts that the Hydra refuses to inject...

Tim and I had a really fun evening, wiping-out the flu blues. Gallivanting round some cool tunes. Biting down on the nub rather than ignoring it. Tim isn't as convinced as me, but I think time will tell.

Get round there for your own dem. M******, I think you're about to have your beliefs in L**** terribly undermined. A single word kept nagging at me, as the true picture unfolded. "Lovely". M****** describes how "lovely" his system sounds, how fun, engaging, bouncy it is. "Lovely" hmm, yes, a lot of records aren't meant to sound lovely. I'll happily admit, it's initially attractive and can be really worthwhile on some records. But exposure to something else is a real wake up call. The Sonic Youth and Neil
Young were the biggest proof that "lovely" is not a dominant characteristic you want in your system.

J**** "

*************************************************

Here endeth the gospel according to J****.
FWIW, altho' . I've enjoyed listening to plenty of quality Naim systems using Music Works blocks and cables, I largely share J****'s conclusions but wouldn't necessarily go quite as far as "MW is the spawn of the devil etc etc" which he is prone to. I prefer and now use the Hydra.

The only answer is to listen for yourself, ideally with friends whose opinions you trust.

Timo