Ordinary Records sound better than Ordinary CDs

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Originally posted by Kyew:

I listen mainly to pop/rock (U2, the Police, Depeche Mode, INXS, Bee Gees etc). Despite the joy of having a Naim system, there is a trade off: I now can hear that most of my mainstream CDs' recording quality are quite awful.

As I have no experience in vinyl, is it true that generally speaking, ordinary records tend to sound better than ordinary cds?

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While there are a number of modern CD's where the production is very poor indeed I don't generally find it to be the case. Sure at higher volume levels you may well here a bit of hiss but nothing dramatic (and you'd perhaps ignore it as being a replay artifact if heard on vinyl).

Many of the records you mention above pre-date CD so perhaps the problem there is in the re-mastering or in the analogue to digital conversion (I suspect they're mostly ADD or AAD recordings).

As for the Bee-Gees I'd expect them to sound crap on any format...

Regards
Steve

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As for the Bee-Gees I'd expect them to sound crap on any format...

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That's because the shite music you like has made you deaf

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Originally posted by Steve Catterall:
Quote: " As for the Bee-Gees I'd expect them to sound crap on any format... "

That's because the shite music you like has made you deaf

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Ah, but only some of it is shite.

Cheers
Steve

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Originally posted by Steve Catterall:
perhaps you are only partially deaf then ???

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Eh? Speak up will you...

Regards
Steve

If c &ps DID bother me, I think I might prefer CDs.

But probably not.

Phil

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As I have no experience in vinyl, is it true that generally speaking, ordinary records tend to sound better than ordinary cds?

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Ordinary records ? First pressings ? They sound better than any audiophile CD or SACD, and even better than audiophile vinyl most of the time
The effect is more pronounced as you go up the analog ladder ...

Current releases: production standards pretty good both lp and cd. LP typically a little more natural but not as solid in deepest bass, some have surface noise, are off-centered or warped.

Mid-80s to Mid-90s: production standards poor in both formats, but much worse in cd. Problem number 1: digital recording. Problem 2: vogue for icy, thin, digital sound, whether recording analog or digital. Digital drums, handclaps, etc., plus synthesizers. Awful awful. Problem 3: CD allowed more material, LP pressings often had too much music to allow for deep bass to be cut. Problem 4: Bad mastering/pressing. However, cds from this era are so uniformly awful that the vinyl wins by a good margin.

1973 to Mid-80s: Original issue was vinyl. Recordings often decent to excellent. Pressing standards were poor, but the originals sound good (if not as good as they could). CDs made of this music were not original issue. If they were made up to 1994-5, they were often rush jobs and sound poor. If they were made with the Sony 1610/1630, which was industry standard in the 80s, they are usually HORRIBLE--gritty, grainy, no bass, no treble. Any lp copy will beat these. If they are recent remasters, they usually will not match an original pressing but are quite fine. On a CDS they even sound like music.

Pre 1973: Recording quality was variable. Some of it was quite splendid, especially minimalist tube recordings. Downside is distortion is much more common, but naturalness is great. Originals usually very fat and juicy sounding, later (transistor) masterings cleaner. The later lp pressing you get the worse but 80s pressings of classic records beat 80s cds of same, and often do as well as remastered cds. Again, the remastered cds are much better than before but not usually in the same ballpark as original vinyl.

Audiophile vinyl does not usually beat originals, but it is available and mint (usually).

--Eri

Cheers
Martin

I just bought a Rega P9 and it more enjoyable than my CDS1 and I wouldn't gain how it is more enjoyable by moving up to a CDS2. I have been replacing my CDs with vinyl and in every case the vinyl is better. I originally had some vinyl issues that were inferior (sonically only) but I have since managed to source the original pressings. I have been picking up albums between $1-2cdn that are mint condition.

Investigate further, you might save yourself from investing huge amounts of cash by continually upgrading the CD source because it doesn't fulfill.

John

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I just bought a Rega P9 and it more enjoyable than my CDS1

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I finally got my Planar 3 running alongside my CDS2. I've got a bunch of stuff on both CD and vinyl. For 95% of all things, the CDS2 eclipses the TT (better dynamics, stereo separation, tonality, etc., etc., etc.). However, vinyl sounds very warm, natural and cohesive.

In spite of the variations, I enjoy both CD and vinyl (along with my "inferior" Creek tuner). Yes I know that if I had a better turntable, it would probably equal or better the CDS2 in a variety of ways. I don't feel compelled to upgrade, though. The Planar 3 is certainly good enough for the little bit of black stuff that I spin.

Mostly it's fun picking up cheap records at garbage sales. You never know what you'll discover. I just found a great rendition of Shotakovich's 1st violin concerto for a $1, and it was brand new (i.e. fresh in the plastic, never been played). I got that along with a copy of Bruce Cockburn's "Humans". (I hear that "Rumours of Glory" is one of Joe Petrik's favorite test tracks.)

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Perhaps that's the appropriate word. My Cds (mid 80s to mid 90s) sound thin and harsh and make me want to turn down the volume. On the other hand I can listen to records from the same era for longer and louder.

Thanks for all the comments.
I will continue to evaluate Cd and vinyl and decide on where to allocate my limited funds to enjoy the music I like. (Please do not tell me to go look for a CDS. It is simply way out of my league, even for a second hand model)

Stravinsky Firebird - Antal Dorati/LSO on Mercury
Elgar Cello Conc. - DuPre/Barbirolli/LSO on EMI
Mahler 5 - Barbirolli/New Philhamonia on EMI

System - Linn LP12/Basik/K9/CD3.5/Nait3/Monitor Audio R352s.

The results were not conclusively in favour of either format. In the first instance (Firebird) we both felt it would be difficult in a 'blind tasting' to tell them apart. The vinyl version of the Cello Concerto gave a little more space around the Cello and was slightly more involving. The Mahler 5 sounded good on both with a somewhat fuller presentation on CD.

All in all we found both formats equally listenable and whilst there were slight differences in presentation it would be extremely difficult to say that one or other was better overall.

For my part I have a marginal preference for CD based on greater convenience and no 'snap crackle and pop' to downgrade the musical experience. In the final analysis it is probably very much a matter of individual preference, the quality of the original recording and that of the system source.

David S

These modifications have resulted in a sharp reduction in system noise. Now the results CD vs Vinyl are not clearcut. In most cases where I can make a direct comparison between a similiar generation copy of CD and LP, for instance, Lyle Lovett's Pontiac or The Nitty Gritties' Will The Circle be Unbroken vol II, both digital masters, the LP sounds more alive and conveys the human qualities of musicians playing together. In the case of say the Fabulous Thunderbirds' Tuff Enuff, which suffers from the a heavyhand on the compression from Dave Edmunds, there's no worthwhile difference between the CD and the LP, this is a CD I'll keep in preference to the LP.

In other cases like the inevitable Kind of Blue, the very latest CD from CBS/legacy is more convincing than a very recent copy on vinyl(not the deluxe reissue on vinyl, I might add). Ahum from Mingus is very good on CBS/Legacy CD,but an 80s vinyl press beats it.

Recent well recorded CDs are really a pleasure to listen to. I'm looking forward to seeing how my Micromega Stage 6 stacks up against a CD5 or a CDX, I've been really enjoying some CDs these last few weeks.

Peter