Hard times at Linn

That's sad indeed.

I think they may be making a mistake.

"...founder Ivor Tiefenbrun today warned the cutbacks would be severe...

"While very painful, this action will ensure the company [shareholders] will have a bright future."

I've heard that they weren't doing too well over a year ago.

They probably have to move the manufacturing facility overseas probably to be competitive. Which I thought they were already doing, but apparently, not enough...

How's Naim doing?

Good point, it has been a tradition that where Linn lead Naim follow!

Well upgrade prices like that of the Keel will hardly help their 'competitive edge'.

Nick

Has anybody noticed Mick P's post in the replys to this article. For somebody who's new year resolution was to refrain from posting on Fora, he's not doing very well!

Gary

I sm sure all Naimistas will be wishing the Linn Company, and its employees, the best future possible under whatever circumstances emerge.

Sincerely, Fredrik

All too indicative of manufacturing in the UK, profits seem to have been pretty good until the last year or so - with a high end product and a smallish target market it needs to be carefuly managed, marketed and controlled to maintain any sort of profit. Let's hope he pulls it round before they go the way of many others!

Very sad.

But perhaps explains in part why the Keel and Ekos SE are quite so expensive...?

I can't support a company run by a man who blames all his misfortunes on the Blair government ('more harm to British industry than the Luftwaffe'). For ten years the British consumer market has been buoyant, which it certainly wasn't during the 2 Tory recessions of the 80s and 90s. What's changed is manufacturing competition from the Far East on the one hand, and the thinning out of the specialist hifi industry on the other.

It's especially confusing for the interested and serious hifi buyer. In 2006 they brought out the Majik system - targeted at the middle-market music lover. It's had a pretty good critical response. Are they abandoning this strategy almost as soon as they've begun it?

Although we stopped being Linn dealers a couple of years ago, this saddens me greatly. I hope they can take the right decisions to make the company survive. I must say I was shocked at the profit results. Even the record profit figure of £2.1M seems rather low considering the size of the company.

We will see a good deal of this type of thing over the next decade and onwards. As the advertising says 'Invest in the world's no.4 economy before it becomes the world's no.1 economy'. China is coming and it is unstoppable.

I sincerely hope that Linn will survive and prosper once more. In recent years, it seems to have gone off in so many directions in terms of product range and offerings, its no surprise that their margins are so low. And they do not have the natural upgrade path that Naim owners enjoy through the upgrade of power supplies, etc.

Joe

quote:

Even the record profit figure of £2.1M seems rather low considering the size of the company.

i must say i was surprised too. i wonder if its because they havent sold enough or that their cost base is too high. judging by current plans, perhaps its the latter.

quote:

And they do not have the natural upgrade path that Naim owners enjoy through the upgrade of power supplies, etc.

yes, this is a strong selling point for naim stuff.

sometimes i wonder how much you can diversify without diluting your focus. the last time i heard a full blown Linn high end system at Harrods, it sounded absolutely diabolical to me.

however, it will be very sad for british hifi industry if Linn went belly-up

enjoy
ken

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
We will see a good deal of this type of thing over the next decade and onwards. As the advertising says 'Invest in the world's no.4 economy before it becomes the world's no.1 economy'. China is coming and it is unstoppable.

Not in my house, it's not - no Cambridge Audio or Shanling around here mate. I get my stuff from a place down road in the town of Salisbury. I have got some China cups though.

Which would you prefer; Naim or Linn to go bust, or send some of their assembly overseas. I bet those are the only two long-term options.

In terms of overseas manufacturing/service. You must remember what goes around, comes around. Many firms are now moving manufacturing to even more 'remote' locations because, as in any developing economy, costs do rise through inflation, worker rights and representation, rents, increasing taxes etc. Many overseas strategies are (wrongly imo) based on the idea of long term annual savings to cover high short term capital outlay for the move. However it appears these long term assumptions are now often proving way out.

So apart from other issues regarding the preferance or otherwise for the purchase of overseas goods, you may actually find this becomes a less viable alternative for many businesses.

Wrt China itself, who knows they may become another Japan with remarkable but unsustainable growth. I suspect the sheer scale of the population would prevent such a bust but there's only so many DVD players and cheap toys to be flogged around the world if your own population can't afford to buy them (and if they could, in turn newer economies will be able to undercut them). Just like Taiwan and Japan and the U.S. and the U.K. and Germany etc. before them.

I read recently in HiFi Choice an article written by I think Alan Sircom that most manufacturers of AV based gear have to work on small margins, basically meaning that there's no money in it and Linn have nailed their colours to that mast and in the process lost a lot of customers. Since I started reading HiFi fora about 3 years ago that has been the main criticism I have read about Linn from ex-linnies. When it comes to overseas manufacturer if you're selling a premium product you don't need to take this route (Creek have their Evo range made in China but the Classic and Destiny ranges are still made here) but at the same time I agree with others Naim start at under £1000, starting at £1995 for your entry level products seems suicidal and now its seems that the real reason behind the Keel/EkosSE and their prices is an attempt to milk LP12 lovers. The words cash cow come to mind or am I being Cynical. Naim sold over 14000 pieces of kit last year their best year ever so the market is there (but I would hazard a guess its mainly good ole 2 channel) and just look at the number of threads that say I'm so happy with my new CD5i, Nait5i combo. In my mind Linn should have a serious look at the market strategies, but saying that my local Linn dealer has got orders the last time I spoke to him for 6 EkosSE's so the future might be OK.


I feel the moral is don't piss off your existing customers.



Dean...

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
We will see a good deal of this type of thing over the next decade and onwards. As the advertising says 'Invest in the world's no.4 economy before it becomes the world's no.1 economy'. China is coming and it is unstoppable.

Not in my house, it's not - no Cambridge Audio or Shanling around here mate. I get my stuff from a place down road in the town of Salisbury. I have got some China cups though.

My hifi stuff is all UK-made, except for the speakers (made in Denmark) and the cartridge (made in Holland).

When I was a little boy I heard Ernie (the fastest milkmen in the west) by Benny Hill and it made me laugh. Fortunately I heard some other things fairly soon after and I have liked music ever since. I was lucky enough to be the right age when the Punk thing happened and understand excitement.

Eventually I decided that I should invest in an expensive stereo having wandered along the Exposure/Arcam/Heybrook/Rega path. I went along to a dealer asking for recommendations. He demoed some Linn and some Naim. I liked the Linn but loved the Naim. The excitement thing.

A while ago I found that I was going to live in Luxembourg for a short time and decided to buy a cheap (£2000-ish) second system. On dealer recommendation I listened to Linn and Cyrus. I bought the Cyrus.

I have a friend who has a complete Linn system and have always enjoyed poking fun at his "lifestyle" system.

Yesterday I found out that another friend in Brussels is running a Hard-drive-Transporter-Nap250-SBL system that he is happy with.

If I was a little boy today I know that I would be distracted by things on a screen and music would not have the same impact.

I really hope that Linn survive but I do wonder where the industry is going.

Nigel

From my perspective, Linn lost its ways many years ago. Back in the 80s it had a clear mission and a clear statement of intent expressed by the tune dem. Customers knew what Linn was about and how the products should be judged. At some point, in the early 90s, things went slightly awry. Linn stopped focusing on the customers they had traditionally served and many dealers dropped their products.

Back in 1988, as a teenager, I bought a Linn Axis and a few year later, as soon as I had scraped the money together, I bought an LP12.
In 1991 I bought a Lingo. And since then? I haven't spent a single penny with the company and can't think of a single product that I would want.

So, in my view, that's where it all went wrong for Linn, it's not the cost of manufacturing, but what they have been choosing to make.
John

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
We will see a good deal of this type of thing over the next decade and onwards. As the advertising says 'Invest in the world's no.4 economy before it becomes the world's no.1 economy'. China is coming and it is unstoppable.

I think Acad is right here, there will be more. Hi-Fi used to be the second largest domestic purchase and has now been relegated well down the list. Computers, games consoles, home cinema etc have all usurped the hi-fi in most households. The demand for high quality music reproduction is the lowest it has been for some years, I think. It is sad to say, but there will be more like Linn yet to come in my opinion.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by John Channing:
From my perspective, Linn lost its ways many years ago. Back in the 80s it had a clear mission and a clear statement of intent expressed by the tune dem. Customers knew what Linn was about and how the products should be judged. At some point, in the early 90s, things went slightly awry. Linn stopped focusing on the customers they had traditionally served and many dealers dropped their products.

Back in 1988, as a teenager, I bought a Linn Axis and a few year later, as soon as I had scraped the money together, I bought an LP12.
In 1991 I bought a Lingo. And since then? I haven't spent a single penny with the company and can't think of a single product that I would want.

So, in my view, that's where it all went wrong for Linn, it's not the cost of manufacturing, but what they have been choosing to make.
John

My sentiments exactly.

Agree - only the Lingo2 because I need 45rpm - the rest of the stuff on comparison to other things just wasn't worth it for the sound and if going for the lifestyle market the styling did not do it for me