System Advice
Posted by: Mike in PA, USA on 28 December 2003
Hello all,
I'm new to the forum, new to NAIM, and have enjoyed reading the posts. I have ordered a NAIT 5 (one of the last in the States) rather than wait for a 5i. I felt the extra input capacity, pre-outs, power amp ins, and ability to upgrade power supply were worth the extra $200, but did not want to make the cost leap to seperates. I plan on driving Dynaudio countour 1.1s and have demo-ed them with a CD5 and a 112/150 which sounded great. My questions is which source to use. I know Tom is not a fan of the CD5 and prefers the 5i, but others have said the 5 is superior. Certainly adding a Flatcap 2 in the future would upgrade both components capabilities, an efficient upgrade. However, I have read a post here about a "DVD5" and am not sure if this is a reality, how it would sound for redbook CDs, etc. I plan on running by TV and a DVD player's L/R audio through the system, but no plans for surround sound just now.
Any thoughts or insights would be greatly appreciated, and I also look forward to some good cycling posts in the padded room.
Cheers,
Mike
I'm new to the forum, new to NAIM, and have enjoyed reading the posts. I have ordered a NAIT 5 (one of the last in the States) rather than wait for a 5i. I felt the extra input capacity, pre-outs, power amp ins, and ability to upgrade power supply were worth the extra $200, but did not want to make the cost leap to seperates. I plan on driving Dynaudio countour 1.1s and have demo-ed them with a CD5 and a 112/150 which sounded great. My questions is which source to use. I know Tom is not a fan of the CD5 and prefers the 5i, but others have said the 5 is superior. Certainly adding a Flatcap 2 in the future would upgrade both components capabilities, an efficient upgrade. However, I have read a post here about a "DVD5" and am not sure if this is a reality, how it would sound for redbook CDs, etc. I plan on running by TV and a DVD player's L/R audio through the system, but no plans for surround sound just now.
Any thoughts or insights would be greatly appreciated, and I also look forward to some good cycling posts in the padded room.
Cheers,
Mike
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Nuno Baptista
Your obvious choice is the cd 5
You can buy a s/h Hi cap and add to the cd player
the cd 5 get you inside the music ,it´s a crack cd player,just do the demo
MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2
You can buy a s/h Hi cap and add to the cd player
the cd 5 get you inside the music ,it´s a crack cd player,just do the demo
MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by prowla
Naim kit has this great upgradability ability. A Hi-Cap will always find a place in your system as you move up the ladder. A CD5 lets you use one and a 5i is a dead end (in terms of upgrading).
However, if you're just wanting to buy a single unit and forget about upgrading then that isn't relevant.
As ever, the best advice is to listen to the items you're thinking of buying and let your ears decide. Good dealers will do home demos (eg. loan you the kit over the weekend with a credit card imprint as security).
Regarding DVD player, I'm not sure it would be wise to buy that based on audio capabilities. I could be wrong but I think the job of a DVD player is to play movies where the visual presentation is much more important than audio. In fact I think that too good a soundtrack could detract from a movie.
My Hi-Fi is separate from my AV system and I only play movies through my TV speakers. I can sit down and get immersed in a movie without thinking about the audio frequency response (on all but music films).
Paul Rowlands
However, if you're just wanting to buy a single unit and forget about upgrading then that isn't relevant.
As ever, the best advice is to listen to the items you're thinking of buying and let your ears decide. Good dealers will do home demos (eg. loan you the kit over the weekend with a credit card imprint as security).
Regarding DVD player, I'm not sure it would be wise to buy that based on audio capabilities. I could be wrong but I think the job of a DVD player is to play movies where the visual presentation is much more important than audio. In fact I think that too good a soundtrack could detract from a movie.
My Hi-Fi is separate from my AV system and I only play movies through my TV speakers. I can sit down and get immersed in a movie without thinking about the audio frequency response (on all but music films).
Paul Rowlands
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Mike in PA, USA
Andrew,
Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention, although I did listen to the 1.1s with the 150 at the dealer, who said it is essentially the same power amp as what's in the Nait 5, and we able to achieve both reasonable and considerably more than reasonable volume levels with clean sound a various genres of music. Nevertheless, I was considering a speaker upgrade at some point regardless. If it should become necessary sooner rather than later, I shall have to thank my year-end bonus. As to the others' comments, it looks like the CD5 is the way to go (and the way I had been leaning), although others may post additional thoughts in coming days.
Thanks all for the feedback.
-M
Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention, although I did listen to the 1.1s with the 150 at the dealer, who said it is essentially the same power amp as what's in the Nait 5, and we able to achieve both reasonable and considerably more than reasonable volume levels with clean sound a various genres of music. Nevertheless, I was considering a speaker upgrade at some point regardless. If it should become necessary sooner rather than later, I shall have to thank my year-end bonus. As to the others' comments, it looks like the CD5 is the way to go (and the way I had been leaning), although others may post additional thoughts in coming days.
Thanks all for the feedback.
-M
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by HTK
The CD5 is a killer player at its price point. I don't know how good a 5i will sound but I do know that adding a Hi Cap to a 5 is a significant and cost effective upgrade. I'd be interested to hear what you think if you do a 5/5i audition.
Cheers
Harry
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Mike in PA, USA
It would probably be a flatcap2, not a hi cap. Does this change the general concept?
Also, any Nait 5 owners find that 30 wpc is enough to get decent volume levels for DVDs with moderately efficient speakers? I think Dynes are 86db.
Thanks guys!
-Mike
Also, any Nait 5 owners find that 30 wpc is enough to get decent volume levels for DVDs with moderately efficient speakers? I think Dynes are 86db.
Thanks guys!
-Mike
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Vaughn3D
Mike, I run my cheap Pioneer 656a DVD player into my Nait 5 and find it to be just what I need. I am driving Audio Physic Spark IIIs in a 22'x22' room and there is always plenty of volume for me. For CDs I use an original Rega Planet. If I were you...I would get the CD5 and then a FC2 later on. Then get a nice Panasonic 34" hdtv monitor with a $200 dvd player and you are set.
-Dan from northern NJ
-Dan from northern NJ
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
It would probably be a flatcap2, not a hi cap. Does this change the general concept?
-Mike
Nope. Exactly the same concept although the Hi Cap is generally accepted to offer better sonic improvements. I got a S/H refurb one for less than the cost of a new FC2, following advice in here. I can't say if it improves on a Flat cap because I didn't do an audition - but I'm more than impressed. In most instances buying blind can be dangerous but I thought it was worth the risk in this instance. And it was.
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Mike in PA, USA
Well, the Nait 5 arrived today, and I'm breaking the thing in (Right now Brian Bromberg is playing "Come Together"). Anyhow, it seems to push the Contour 1.1s fine, volume sounds best between 11 and 1 o'clock. 2 o'clock starts to get really lound, almost unbearable, perhaps too hard a push for the little boxes, but still clean. Sound right now is a bit thin and harsh, but from other posts it seems that this is part of the break in and expected. Haven't added the CD5 yet since I want to exprience one piece breaking in at a time, so source is currently a japanese brand CD player (I know, I'm sorry), but will upgrade soon.
The only dangling issue is if I do want to stay with the 30 wpc Nait or swap it for the 50 watt seperates combo. I could do this now, which would probably just mean adding the flatcap2 later on, and basically just putting another $1K into the system. Dealer said the flatcap would add more that getting the seperates, sonically, but curious if others have thoughts.
Cheers,
Mike
The only dangling issue is if I do want to stay with the 30 wpc Nait or swap it for the 50 watt seperates combo. I could do this now, which would probably just mean adding the flatcap2 later on, and basically just putting another $1K into the system. Dealer said the flatcap would add more that getting the seperates, sonically, but curious if others have thoughts.
Cheers,
Mike
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by NaimDropper
Brian Bromberg will run that in nicely, especially the bass!
David
David
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
The only dangling issue is if I do want to stay with the 30 wpc Nait or swap it for the 50 watt seperates combo.
It all depends on where you want to go, Mike. Yes the 112 / 150 is an upgrade over the Nait 5 (though is not just a matter of 30 / 50 watt; it's more a matter of seperating the power from the pre), but of course before you know it your dealer will suggest there's even better pre - power combos - and there are.
I would say the primary thing to get now is the CD5 (before they're all gone) plus the FC2. If you can afford the 112 / 150 at the same time, I'd do it. Otherwise I'd just enjoy the Nait 5, and buy more music. There's nothing to feel bad about in the Nait 5.
I am a bit surprised by your volume dial at 12 o'clock. Are you in a huge Philly mainline place, or do you just like your music incredibly loud?
I have yet to reach 10 o'clock yet (on a NAC102).
Herman
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Tuan
I would go for the Nait5i for the following reasons:
- There is a big different in power between 50W and 30W to drive the speakers.
- Integrated amplification is not meant to be upgraded to separated combo (pre-amp/amp). You would want to sell it when you decide to go for higher model (you next step in the distant future is 202/hicap/200) to have significant gain in system performance. Selling off a Nait5i in the future is much easier than selling a Nait5. If you want the Nait5 buy a used one for 1/2 the price as people are dumping them for the newer version. I asked Naim to make the Nait5i 4 years ago and it takes them 4 years to realize that there is a market for it. You will find that if you are in the market for a 50 W integrated amp. You have lot of choices out there and they are all fine amps (Naim are not alone). The CD5i is the return of the Naim famous CD3 concept in the past and the CD3 was the best selling Naim CDP till they discontined it because the lack of parts to build them. For this issue I would go for the CD5i and sell it off the a CDX2 in the future when you upgrade your amplification. If you buy the CD5 buy a used one for 1/2 the price.
[This message was edited by Tuan on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 12:59.]
- There is a big different in power between 50W and 30W to drive the speakers.
- Integrated amplification is not meant to be upgraded to separated combo (pre-amp/amp). You would want to sell it when you decide to go for higher model (you next step in the distant future is 202/hicap/200) to have significant gain in system performance. Selling off a Nait5i in the future is much easier than selling a Nait5. If you want the Nait5 buy a used one for 1/2 the price as people are dumping them for the newer version. I asked Naim to make the Nait5i 4 years ago and it takes them 4 years to realize that there is a market for it. You will find that if you are in the market for a 50 W integrated amp. You have lot of choices out there and they are all fine amps (Naim are not alone). The CD5i is the return of the Naim famous CD3 concept in the past and the CD3 was the best selling Naim CDP till they discontined it because the lack of parts to build them. For this issue I would go for the CD5i and sell it off the a CDX2 in the future when you upgrade your amplification. If you buy the CD5 buy a used one for 1/2 the price.
[This message was edited by Tuan on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 12:59.]
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Mike in PA, USA
It was my understanding that while the Nait5 is being discontinued, the CD5 is going to remain as a current product, and that the main advantage of both of these units is that they can be used with a Flatcap2.
Aside from more power, my understanding is there is a lot less in the Nait 5i than the $200 price reduction suggests, probably to increase Naim's margin.
Herm: My speakers are about 86db sensitive - might this expalin 12 o'clock?
J.A. - "User adjustable" gain?
-Mike
Aside from more power, my understanding is there is a lot less in the Nait 5i than the $200 price reduction suggests, probably to increase Naim's margin.
Herm: My speakers are about 86db sensitive - might this expalin 12 o'clock?
J.A. - "User adjustable" gain?
-Mike
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Vaughn3D
Mike, take a look at page 11 of your Nait owners manual. The 3rd paragraph describes how to adjust the gain...this can be used so that a cd player and cable box (for example) produce the same volume level from the Nait. Personally, I would rather have a CD5/FC2/Nait 5 over a CD5/112/150.
Lately I find myself dreaming of a used CDX...
Lately I find myself dreaming of a used CDX...
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Tuan
quote:
Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
It was my understanding that while the Nait5 is being discontinued, the CD5 is going to remain as a current product, and that the main advantage of both of these units is that they can be used with a Flatcap2.
Aside from more power, my understanding is there is a lot less in the Nait 5i than the $200 price reduction suggests, probably to increase Naim's margin.
Herm: My speakers are about 86db sensitive - might this expalin 12 o'clock?
J.A. - "User adjustable" gain?
-Mike
Ask yourself a question: why Naim Audio discontinue the Nait5? Well, the product did not pass the real-life test: Expensive and offer less... It is the consumers who cast the vote on the product life-span.
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Greg Beatty
I demoed Dynaudios, but not with Naim amps (different dealers and all that). The 86db figure isn't the whole story...Dyns dip in impedence as a function of frequency (WHAT did he just say?) so as the bass kicks in, the speaker's impedence (the load the amp sees) can dip to 2ohms or less. Speakers are rated as 4ohm, 8ohm or whatever, but in reality it varies with frequency.
The Allaes I ended up with are 89db efficient BUT don't dip below 6ohm's as a function of frequency. This leads to the description of the speaker as, "an easy load to drive".
BTW, my Nait 5/FC2 does rather well. The next upgrade would either be to the sources or adding a preamp.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
The Allaes I ended up with are 89db efficient BUT don't dip below 6ohm's as a function of frequency. This leads to the description of the speaker as, "an easy load to drive".
BTW, my Nait 5/FC2 does rather well. The next upgrade would either be to the sources or adding a preamp.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Mike in PA, USA
Okay, so everyone has been offering some great opinions, and my NAIT5 has started to sound better after playing the Cowboy Junkies overnight and Chris Thomas King all morning.
Herm: Actually, my dealer thinks I'll be happy with the Nait5, I'm the one who suggested the upgrade to seperates, primarily based on Andrew Dunn's earlier post about more power being needed to drive the tiny Dynes, which he later recanted.
Tuan: While you point about market forces and consumer "vote casting", there can be other issues at work. I'm not sure of the currency exchange rate, but I think Naim may have wanted a product well below 1000 GBP to encourage NAD types to step up to Naim gear. Meanwhile, in the US the price point for the 5 ($1550) and 5i ($1350) don't have much of a psychological impact.
I wanted the NAIT 5 for the additional imputs (Cable or Satelite, DVD, CD, Tuner, and maybe plug in a CD changer from the downstairs system if I have parties). For me, the "old" Nait 5 suited my needs best for the price. Sonically, I was told there would be very little difference between the Nait 5 and the 112/150, and funds would better be spent on a flatcap than seperates for better fidelity (as Vaughn has mentioned). The ONLY reason I would want the 112/150, in my estimation, would be to have more power to drive different speakers, but as the dynes seem to be considered fairly inefficient, the 30 wpc Nait 5 shouldn't limit my choices too much. I don't listen to much orchestral music, and when I listen to rock I don't charnk it crazy loud, so I should be fine. Probably best to keep the Nait 5 for now, invest in music instead of seperates, and just enjoy the music.
Cheers,
Mike
Herm: Actually, my dealer thinks I'll be happy with the Nait5, I'm the one who suggested the upgrade to seperates, primarily based on Andrew Dunn's earlier post about more power being needed to drive the tiny Dynes, which he later recanted.
Tuan: While you point about market forces and consumer "vote casting", there can be other issues at work. I'm not sure of the currency exchange rate, but I think Naim may have wanted a product well below 1000 GBP to encourage NAD types to step up to Naim gear. Meanwhile, in the US the price point for the 5 ($1550) and 5i ($1350) don't have much of a psychological impact.
I wanted the NAIT 5 for the additional imputs (Cable or Satelite, DVD, CD, Tuner, and maybe plug in a CD changer from the downstairs system if I have parties). For me, the "old" Nait 5 suited my needs best for the price. Sonically, I was told there would be very little difference between the Nait 5 and the 112/150, and funds would better be spent on a flatcap than seperates for better fidelity (as Vaughn has mentioned). The ONLY reason I would want the 112/150, in my estimation, would be to have more power to drive different speakers, but as the dynes seem to be considered fairly inefficient, the 30 wpc Nait 5 shouldn't limit my choices too much. I don't listen to much orchestral music, and when I listen to rock I don't charnk it crazy loud, so I should be fine. Probably best to keep the Nait 5 for now, invest in music instead of seperates, and just enjoy the music.
Cheers,
Mike