Range order(s) in the mains outlet
Posted by: graphoman on 24 May 2002
According to Naim’s suggestions I gave up driving the system via 3 separate outlets. Now I use one common outlet for the Naim 6-outlet-extension and it’s really better. (It may be so because of Naim’s characteristic earthing practice, I understand.) However, while making use of the 6 outlets there are a lot of configurations and as pointed out by others in this forum it’s not unconcerned which plug comes first and which last.
I couldn’t remember what my vote was that time so I was in trouble when very recently our flat has been renovated for 3 weeks long and at the end I had to mount the system as it was before. I had to experiment once again and in my system (CDS1/Hi/72/250) I consequently got the result that the very first outlet is for the PS of the CD player and the very last one for the amp with the plug of the Hicap inbetween. (In the meantime I did find my vote for the forum. Yes, it was the same as now!)
Even so, there remained a too big field to play. It’s hard to believe but moving the Hicap’s plug from outlet 2 to 5 caused as big a change in the sound quality as some minor but important upgrades I’ve done before – Black Snake for the Hicap or Black Burndy for the CDS come to mind. In the configuration described above, outlet 2 (CD and Hi side-by-side) gave a warm but blurred image while outlet 5 (amp and Hi side-by side) resulted in a much more focused but cold, uninvited sound picture. So I can’t help but stick to one of the intermediate outputs (3).
Maybe the rule is “let’s put the plugs as far from each other as possible”?
graphoman
Posted on: 24 May 2002 by dave simpson
Hi Graphoman,
Try the following order starting with outlet in the strip nearest the wall: 250,HC,cdsps. Many of us find this combination best-try it for a day or so before switching back. (No empty outlets between AC Plugs also).
regards,
dave
Posted on: 24 May 2002 by Martin Payne
This is what I like about the hydra arrangement - all items have a similar access to the incoming mains.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 24 May 2002 by Arthur Bye
Martin:
Whoa!
thanks for the piccie.
I'd never seen a Hydra(we don't seem to have them across the pond) and was always curious what they looked like.
Any chance of seeing the inside?
Arthur Bye
Posted on: 24 May 2002 by dave simpson
quote:
Whoa!
thanks for the piccie.
I'd never seen a Hydra(we don't seem to have them across the pond) and was always curious what they looked like.
Any chance of seeing the inside?
Dittos!
dave
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by graphoman
thanks for the tip, I may try it again.
graphoman
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by Thomas K
Hi graphoman,
Have a look at
this discussion on the subject.
I find plugging the power amps first is flattering and impressive at first, but the band plays much tighter if you plug sources first, which is why I went back to "source first" plugging after some experimenting. I think it's important to try each configuration for a couple of days at least.
Thomas
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by John
My experience with plug order is to put the most power sensitive unit first in the order. When I was running my CDX/XPS,82,Super,135 the little NASPC (?) for the 82 first in the plug order gave the best results. I now have it 135,Super(52),CDPS.
John
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by graphoman
thank you, now I realize again how difficult is to judge even in these mandatory questions. Presently I think the
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by graphoman
now I see how difficult is to judge even in such mandatory things. Presently I feel the “amp first” version is better but it gives some unpleasant feeling to the air, “PWB-type distortion”, if you know what I’m talking about. So I’ve sent an email to our protectors, maybe it helps:
“Dear Pauls,
due to the imperfections of my equipment I’m in constant trouble when deciding about such important basic functions like mains polarity and range order of the plugs. Nevertheless, these are fundamentals, necessary to any future upgrades. You see I tried to discuss it on the Forum but I’m still in uncertainty. Would you kindly tell me:
1. when facing the outlet, with the plug in my hand, which pole should carry the current, which one has to be the “live” pole: the left one or the right one? (I live in the continent, not in Britain!)
and
2. which is the right range order: amp/pre/CD or CD/pre/amp?
I don’t think these topics a state secret. And if they are not, perhaps they should be read even in the manuals, shouldn’t they.”
Best regards
graphoman
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by Thomas K
Question 1. is too complex to be covered in a manual that is to be used in many different countries, and 2. I would say is a matter of taste.
What outlet types do you use in Hungary - three-pin (which gives you no choice for polarity, like in the UK), or two-pin (as in Germany, for example)? See
this if it's two-pin.
Thomas
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Arthur Bye:
I'd never seen a Hydra(we don't seem to have them across the pond)
Apparently, they just don't work on US mains. Stick with the Wiremold. Guess you knew this, but hey...
quote:
and was always curious what they looked like.
Well, they're a bit of a cottage industry over here, so I guess every one looks a little different.
This, for instance, is how Grahams do them:-
quote:
Any chance of seeing the inside?
OK, next time the system is powered down.
May be a long wait - last time was over six months.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 25 May 2002 by Arthur Bye
Martin:
Thanks for the pix! I kinda figured there must be more than one arrangement for the Hydra.
Anybody out there know the best supplier for power cords? I have no less than six different types of power cord for my Naim and Linn kit. I've bought a bunch of stuff used over the years so I didn't always end up with the original cords. Some are nickel and others brass. I'm pretty sure the brass isn't oem Naim.
I have noticed differences between some of them. Seems like I ought to be able to find a reliable vendor like Mouser.com to provide cables. But which ones? there's a bunch to choose from. They're cheap enough, but I don't feel like the trial and error route.
Any help appreciated.
Arthur Bye
Posted on: 26 May 2002 by graphoman
I don’t think so. I’m convinced one of the range orders is correct and the other not. Which brings me to the conclusion that the Hydra configuration is no solution, it only plays safe being satisfied with half of the optimum.
(Dave, I still don’t know Naim’s “official” opinion so I’m risking of becoming ridiculous but I can’t stand the configuration you suggested. I keep feeling a distortion in the air, something of an artificial space. The CD/pre/amp range order, especially with spaces inbetween, is more relaxed, more listenable, someone scratchy, but after all I have a 15-year-old Hi with a 72 and I can imagine what a 82 or a Scap would do. In the configuration you suggested I can’t imagine where to go.)
As regards of mains arrangement: we have 3 poles including earth. The problem is that the outlets are not standardized (especially not in an old building like ours), you have wall outlets where the “live” pole is right and other ones with the left. Now you have your Naim plugs: where to put them, to a right-live or a left-live outlet? (I guess the antwort but it was a tyring work to track it down. Once I got an ARC D-70 burned down due to one of these experiments.)
graphoman
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by Top Cat
One fuse between so many components is a bottleneck. Roy's put a lot of thought into such things and his advice is worth its weight in gold.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by dave simpson
Hi Graphoman,
quote:
So I’ve sent an email to our protectors, maybe it helps
Keep trying the order I suggested for several days and then switch back to any other combo... Forget about analyzing the results, that will drive you mad. You'll decide without thinking about it;)
Btw, I think it's a great idea to check polarity/open grounds etc., with respect to household wiring. Circuit analysers are cheap and easily found at electronic supply houses (Radio Shack here in the US).
regards,
dave
subliminal message..... naimuklikesreversehierarchynaimlikesreversehierarchy....endofmessage.
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by dave simpson
nahh...more of a quip.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by Thomas K
quote:
Forget everything else, it's just tinkering for tinkering's sake
Isn't that a rather arbitrary line you're drawing, b? For most people, dedicated stands and spurs would suffice to have you committed, because after all, "that doesn't make an ounce of a difference, he just does that because he's the victim of marketing ploy".
Face it, you're sad too!
Thomas
PS I'd say in my flat/setup/country/reality the plug order makes about the same difference as when I had the spur installed.
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by graphoman
all my thanks for your tips but I do have my opinion. The range order you suggest make me a permanent feeling of PWB-type distortion. I’ve made too many experiments with PWB to be wrong.
graphoman
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by Thomas K
grapho,
I don't think Dave meant "listen to the powers of the universe pervading your soul as you get in touch with your inner self", but just what gives you the most musical enjoyment. It not THAT important - even if it was, the bigger the difference, the easier it should be for you to decide which configuration gives you more enjoyment.
I just find it important to give any changes some time - different isn't always better, as one might be lead to believe.
Thomas
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by Mick P
Chaps
12 Months ago I had a separate spur installed which improved the overall sound and made the background noise much quieter.
I then purchased a MusicWorks 6 way block and noticed a minor improvement. Not worth the money in my opinion.
I then rearranged the order of the plugs and noticed no difference whats so ever.
James is correct on this occassion.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by dave simpson
Gotta disagree Mick. Just as DIN centering was inaudible on Mana stands (in my and one other mana'd naim rig I tested) yet clearly heard with any other support..everything is system dependant. AC plug hierachy is not huge-just a worthwhile experiment.
Graphoman,
As Thomas (and my private email) suggested, what ever sounds best to you "is best".
regards,
dave
Posted on: 27 May 2002 by Steve Toy
Mick, you did well to purchase a MW block.
Next you need the leads.
Forget the rest, but the CDS2 (or in my case, the humble CDX) should be plugged into the socket nearet to the wall outlet.
It does make a difference in terms of bass control and overall musical drama.
Regards,
Steve.
The proof of the pudding...
Posted on: 28 May 2002 by graphoman
Of course I never was THAT sure of it but you see I got a mail from John Fotheringham (Naim-uk) saying that “The best order is CD/PRE/AMP” and even the configuration I’ve suggested (CD-0-PRE-0-0-AMP) is the best for a six gang outlet.
Thank you John - but may I take it official?
graphoman
Posted on: 28 May 2002 by Thomas K
Naim UK: source first
NANA: amps first
[motherly] There you have it! Doesn't that just show that there can't be a difference? [/motherly]
Mick, time for you to sort them out!
Thomas
Posted on: 28 May 2002 by graphoman
Mike, you said: “Not worth the money in my opinion... I then rearranged the order of the plugs and noticed no difference whats so ever...”
Having arranged thousands of tests (controlled, uncontrolled, blind, A-B etc.) I came to some conclusion.
To the first: if a lot of people can percept something and others can’t the thing in all posssibilities does exist.
To the second: Tiny differences become THAT BIG during our everyday evenings.
graphoman
