New to Naim

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3) Anyone tried Harbeth Speakers with Naim?

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i have harbeth hl-p3es and naim. personally i think that is a great combo.

Your system is ultimately only as good as it's source. So should you put a Nait 5 behind an MF X-ray, the Nait will clearly show what's going on with the X-Ray. A Naim pre-power combo will further magnify things.

To be quite blunt about it, good as the X-ray is, it's rather rythmically challenged. You might find a better place to start is the CD-5 into the XA-2, and later upgrade the amp. Just a thought.

A good dealer should be able to help you find the best solution for your ears, before you take the plunge and vote with your wallet.

Let us know how you get on.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

A NAIT 5/FlatCap2 or NAC112/NAP150..... well first thing is to try them both. However, the NAC112/NAP150 will present better value in terms of subsequent upgrades. The general opinion is on th forum is that a NAC112/NAP150 will outperform the NAIT/FlatCap. You may like some of the characteristics of the NAIT/FlatCap to be persuaded in that direction - it is up to you.

Also, the quality of your source will have a lot of bearing on the decision.

Does questions 2 & 3 mean you have an X-Ray and Harbeth loudspeakers? Apparently, Naim and Harbeth do go well together. Regarding Musical Fidelity and Naim, you would be mixing two companies with very different philosophies on musical presentation - although some have reported success with mixing the two brands.

If you have an X-Ray, then you can consider trading it in and maybe buying a CD5/NAIT5/FlatCap2 combination. This would be a major set forward from just bolting a new amp on the end of an X-Ray. Indeed, you can also trade in your current MF amplifiers.

Try it and see,

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

I do own a pair of Harbeth HLP3ES-2's which are in my opinion better than the AE1's.

The dealer has agreed to loan me the amps for a home trial so I can see how the MF performs hooked up to the Naim Amps.

I was hoping that they would be a good blend (Ying/Yang, Opposites attract etc) but I guess only time will tell.

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Originally posted by 1st Pentacostal Church of Vuksanovic:

For interest - my system is currently Naim 3.5+Hicap or LP12/Aro/OC9 into a highly modded Naim 42.5 + 6 rail PS into 4x MF X-A200 power amps into Celestion A3s. Previously I have used X-A1 + 2x XA50 and an X-P100 as well. I never really got on with MF sources.

Hope this helps - shout if I can help further.

Jonathan

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Got my curiosity aroused with the 6 rail PS into a 42.5. Currently running a prefix and 32.5 (board stripped) off a supercap. Loadsa rails to spare. No short term plans to go 52. Will go for a s/h 72 for boards cosmetics. Is it possible to put a burndy socket in the back of a 72, use a load of the rails there and divert a pair out to the Prefix? If so what would be involved?

Regards,

Willy.

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I have so far only been able to listen to the NAC112/NAP150 combination with a Cyrus CD Player and Acoustic Energy AE1 speakers and although good I wasn't totally blown away.

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The AE1 is rather inefficient, and I don't think the 112/150 is up to driving it.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

i bought 112/150 sometime ago and was suprised how good and unfussy it was. as someone else has pointed out, there are many upgrade options (i suppose this is true of the whole naim range) right up to NAP500!!! and plenty of enjoyment along the way. i have my 112/150 driving Kan 1's. recently, i have hicapped the 112 and things are even better -- but you dont need to worry about this day one -- the combo will sound very good without the p/s.

enjoy

ken

Before I got my first Naims tuff I had - and got great enjoyment from - a Musical Fidelity A1. Sure, Naim was clearly and immediately better by a large margin, but for the price, the MF stuff delivers musical goods.

All reproduced music is compromise.

I agree with those who say you need to listen to both. Sure, if you prefer MF we may think you've got tin ears, but those are the ears you have to satisfy....

Phil

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Originally posted by 1st Pentacostal Church of Vuksanovic:
Quote: " Is it possible to put a burndy socket in the back of a 72, use a load of the rails there and divert a pair out to the Prefix? If so what would be involved? "

Sorry - I am not competent to help, I bought the thing as is from someone who has a mate who is probably competent to answer, but I don't even know who it is.

Jonathan

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Will maybe try a new thread see if any other twisted minds have ventured down this route.

Willy.

Treat the fine prose of Pentacostal with trepidation - he's been at the Hen's Teeth.

Alex

Naim NAC112/NAP150

Plinius 8200

MF A3cr pre/power

Lavardin IS

All have different RRP's but I can buy them for roughly the same price.

These will be tested against my current MF X-A2 and the winner will be purchased.

I will post the results asap.

Tried out everything over the weekend but the Lavardin and the results are as follows:

Musical Fidelity A3cr Pre and Power – tested in a poor dem room but it didn’t take long to realise that the amps came across as very flat sounding, very boring.
Very little realism: I listed to a track called Guinevere by a singer songwriter called Lucy Kaplansky. This is quite a sparse travk with primarily Lucy and an acoustic guitar. The musicians were placed nicely in the sound stage but the guitar sounded as though someone had placed a blanket over it. There was little or no leading edge to the notes - no evidence that what you were hearing was actually a very good guitar player playing quite a difficult melody. The vocals too were quite difficult to warm to. I have geard Lucy sing this live and there was no sense of the sweetness and power that her voice possesses.
Dynamics were little stunted too which surprised me considering their power (120w into 8 ohms). We listened to Your Bright Baby Blues from Jackson Browne’s The Pretender. Rhythmic power was poor with the sound being too full in the lower octaves. Not particularly deep bass - just wishy washy. Good sound staging but off-axis listening was extremely poor.
The sound was strangely open but veiled at the same time (difficult to explain) compared to the Naim/Plinius. Whether this was because of the set up in the room or the amps were running from cold (the guy in the shop reckoned they had been running all morning) I don’t know. From experience any hi-fi I have ever listened to in a dem room always sounds better at home. The Naim included. As an aside the dealer wasn’t particularly good. He’d never heard of Naim (?!) and insisted in talking whilst we (my wife and I) were listening. Wouldn’t allow a home trial unless I paid for the amps in full with the proviso that I could take them back for a refund if I didn’t like them after a week. Overall very disappointed. I had actually expected (given the reviews) to really like these amps but sadly this was not to be.

Plinius 8200 – infinitely better. Was able to test this in my own system as home side by side with the Naims. Everything that was wrong with the Musical Fidelity is right with this amp but even more so. Open, detailed, rhythmic, powerful. The Lucy Kaplansky track sounded superb. The sound stage was wider but the sound of the acoustic guitar seemed bigger with more realism. You could actually imagine the guitarist picking away just to the right of the listening position. The notes started and decayed beautifully. Lucy’s vocals take on a much better presence and again the realism was there.
The Jackson Browne track gained pace and authority. The song now seemed to have a purpose and direction. Something sorely lacking with the MF’s.
The sound was full without ever becoming bloated. Apparently the Americans love this amp and it competes over there with the likes of Krell.
Dynamics were great and you always felt that there was much more to spare (175 watts per channel into 8ohms!).

Musical Fidelity X-A2 - oh dear. Sounds like a smaller version of the pre-power. Enough said!

Naim NAC112/NAP150 – these amplifiers have got to be the most different sounding amps that I have ever heard. They are quite remarkable. Of all the tracks that we heard the Naims made the music more alive, more “live” and more rhythmic and powerful than the other three amps (although the Plinius was quite close in these respects). The sound of the acoustic guitar in the Lucy Kaplansky song took on a more realistic and consequently slightly thinner presence. There seemed to be a little bit more air around the guitar. The sound of the strings came over slightly better with the leading edge to the note more emphasised.
Again the Jackson Browne track had even more authority and weight and drive. The guitar solo near the end had more energy to it.
For a 50 watts per channel amp it gave nothing away to the more powerful Plinius.

I listened to all the amps individually without doing any direct comparisons at first. Having discounted the MF’s I decided that I would do a side by side song by song comparison with the Plinius and Naim amps.

I have to say that I cannot decide. The Naims give you that live powerful feel to the music but sometimes you want to just take it down a notch for some late night listening where all the power is there but the sound is just slightly more relaxed. This is what the Plinius gives you but can’t create the same kind of energy and exuberance when you want it that the Naim can.
The only other downside to the Naim amps is the fact that the Phono stage costs another £175 whereas the Plinius has a rather excellent one built in.
I spoke to Midland Audio Exchange who told me that Densen and Sugden amps might be a good alternatives - any other suggestions.
Any suggestions to smooth out the sound of the Naims slightly?
Anybody tried Rega - how does it compare?
I will be comparing again tonight.
Maybe I will come to a conclusion.
Sorry for the ramble.

The Regas are brilliant for the money, but if you're in 112/150 territory, you can safely discount the Regas as "kiddie stuff".

What sources were you using? This was probably the cause of any harshness. Also, what speakers were you using? Poorly setup Intros & Credos can sound pretty dire.

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Originally posted by Mike Sae:
What happened to the Lavardin?

What sources were you using? This was probably the cause of any harshness. Also, what speakers were you using? Poorly setup Intros & Credos can sound pretty dire.

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As no-one locally sells Lavardin I needed to speak to the distributor to arrange a home demo. This I haven't done.

With regards to the source and speakers these are MF X-RAY and Harbeth HLP3ES-2.

I didn't find the Naims harsh per se - just a little bit more difficult to relax with than the Plinius.

I will try to get to listen to the Lavardin some time soon.

I have in the last month borrowed a Lavardin IS Reference and Primare A30.1.

The IS Reference is absolutely superb and I would urge anybody to try and take a listen. If I can get it for the right price from the distributor I might be tempted.

The A30.1 is boring - end of story.

The problem is i paid a quick visit to the naim dealer in the City where I work (to enquire about interconnects) and they have told me that they could probably put together a Naim NAC102/NAP250 (secondhand) for around the same price! This has thrown a spanner in the works.

Why is life never simple.

This could result in more auditioning. I am not sure if my sanity can take much more and my wife has started talking about a new patio (?!).

I will update if I can.

Rob

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

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Is it possible for a 250 to power a 102?

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No!

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You may need an extra power supply.

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Yes!

Cheers
Ade

and yes, we're still interested!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio