DVD5 DVD volume propblem during DVD playback!

Sorry about the typo in my topic title here!

Paul,

does your DVD5 standard or is it fitted with the M/C board option?

I believe what you are experiencing is the difference in level between when the DVD5 is dealing with a Stereo signal and when it is being asked to downmix a multi-channel signal.

Hopefully on Monday our AV@Naim will pick up this thread and give you a definitive answer on this.

Thanks Richard,

I did not order the DVD5 with this M/C option.

I've got the audio set to "Stereo" in the setup menu. But the "Multichannel" option also appears here. Maybe it does have the M/C option!

I'll "reset" the DVD5 and try it again.

I look forward to AV@Naim's reply.

Have a great weekend.

Paul.

The setting you are referring to is the digital output format (stereo or multichannel)–this does not affect the downmix sent through the main LR outputs.

If two channels are present on the disc soundtrack (typical in most disc menus by default), you won't notice a difference in volume–however, if you are playing back surround audio (perhaps during the movie itself), the downmixing algorithm reduces the total volume to accomodate the summation of more than two channels of audio.

For best results in your (two-channel) system, select Dolby 2.0 or "stereo" (as opposed to Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS, or "surround") on the disc's own audio menu. Stereo PCM or matrixed two-channel Dolby Digital are mandatory parts of the DVD spec.

You're also welcome to phone us in Chicago on Monday.

Thanks David,

I'll review these settings tonight and post an update. You are correct in that I have a stereo system.

Regarding the downmixing algorithm...I can see how the volume would be reduced if the downmix was applied to two channels (stereo) when it was assuming 5.1 channels.

Kind regards,

Paul (A New Member at last!)

This is a firmware bug and Naim knows about it.
They told me it will be corrected in a future version.
Whenever you try to play a DVD using DD 5.1 or DTS using the 2 Ch analogue outputs, volume will be reduced.
The effect is more pronounced in DD5.1 than in DTS.
The reason for the volume differences when hitting title or during previews, is that the some DVDs use only 2 CH sound for those and your player is changing from DD 2.0 or PCM stereo to DD 5.1.
I'm using a DVD5 w/ a NAC 52 through the 2CH analogue outputs and the same is happening to me. Low volume sound w/ poor audio quality on DD5.1 and DTS and the nasty switching sound.
On other players I'm using, like the Denon A1XV it doesn't happen (using 2CH analogue outputs). Volume doesn�t change.
Another bug I've experienced is that the digital output (RCA) doesn't output the correct PCM bit stream when the audio setup >digital audio is set to stereo. It always outputs the DD5.1 or DTS bit stream regardless of selecting stereo (PCM) or multichannel (DD5.1/DTS). I�ve tried a 2 CH audio DAC and it doesn�t work. My Denon works fine in that configuration.
I�m disappointed with the Naim DVD audio problems since I�ve bought the player mainly for the high audio quality for which Naim products are known for.
I�m waiting for 2 months already for the corrected firmware release. Let�s hope it will be released soon.

O.K. Gang,

Here's tonight's report on the DVD5.
I played/paused/stopped two DVD's, after implementing a DVD5 "Reset".

DVD1: Fun with Dick & Jane:

Previews & DVD menu = Loud (normal / expected level), good quality sound.
Nasty switching click/clunk sound at high volume as DVD moves between each preview & main DVD menu. This DVD has no audio settings in its set-up screen.

Ignored digtal audio output setting. I'm going from DVD5 to a 252 (socket 4)
Cycled between DVD playback > Audio > Dolby stereo/dts/Dolby 5.1/Auto. Result: No change in volume / quality. Still sounds about half volume of preview & menu section playback.

DVD2: I Robot:

Previews & DVD menu = Loud (normal / expected level), good quality sound.
Nasty switching click/clunk sound at high volume as DVD moves between each preview & main DVD menu. Also same switching sound as DVD displays each "unaouthorized playback warnings in English and French" prior to starting the movie. The movie iytself plays loud (normal /expected).

Ignored digtal audio output setting as above.

Cycled between DVD playback > Audio > Dolby stereo/dts/Dolby 5.1/Auto. Result: No change at all in volume / quality. i.e. Changing these settings via OSD had no effect.

O.K. So now I'm baffled...there are essentrially two issues here, one the low volume during DVD playback of "some" movies, plus this nasty clunk/click (every trip!) during the preview & movie intro.

Hopefully someone with higher knowledge will be able to assist during Naim USA normal business hours. Will keep you posted!

Kind regards,

Paul.

Me again,

I've just seen Gareth's older thread about mix down low volume:

 http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/78019385/m/5502966207 

This is simliar to my experience, but I get both high & low volume on the same DVD, the preview section of a DVD is typically louder & better quality than the "mixed down" movie you hope to watch...

(Note: My older Linn Classic movie does not exhibit these quirks...mixdown is normalized to same volume as non mix down).

I'll try and be patient and call the mothership tomorrow..

Kind regards,

Paul.

quote:

mixdown is normalized to same volume as non mix down

Technically, this is exactly what's happening. You changed the settings of the DVD5, but this will not undo the folddown of 5.1 channel material onto two channels.

What you're really after, is to select (not from the DVD5 setup menu, but the disc menu itself) a two-channel soundtrack, not a 5.1 channel soundtrack. Then the unit will not have to reduce the master volume to accomodate 5.1 channels of material summed into two.

The specific case of the Classik Movie, and the Naim n-Vi, too, is that the units integrate both a surround decoder as well as a player, in one chassis. This allows the decoder to adjust for this, automatically and in the digital domain, as these units are designed with the DSP processing to accomodate this.

This is not a problem unique to the DVD5, but common among all players that do not provide explicit surround decoding as a built-in feature.

P.S. If you phone our offices in Chicago, you'll likely be forwarded to me anyway!

Orlac,

Please mail info@naim-audio.com directly.

Hi Gang,

I called Naim USA today and spoke directy with David (see above).

David patiently explained the mix down & audio buffer functions and why the switching noise occurs. David had me check for any ground/noise problems associated with connecting the display & also check for the presence of the switching noise with CD playback. David explained that unfortunatley for two channel audio this is simply the way life is with the DVD5 as it does not possess the downmix signal processing capability of the nVi, AV2, or my Linn Classic Movie. It was frustrating for me to come to the realization that the DVD5 is a bit rough round the edges and I'm going to have a lot of trouble living with this switching/volume problem.

Like an earlier post I was hoping that the DVD5 would slot seamlessly into my two channel Naim system...good stereo sound & good video..but the DVD5's audio performance is very dependant upon the DVD being played, more so than any other DVD player I have experienced.

Now I need to consider whether to resort back to my Linn Classic Movie. I cannot at this stage justify adding an AV2, and I'm not convinced the nVi will integrate as well into my system, particularly if I seek to add active center & rear speakers to my current ATC stereo pair at some point in the future. Arrghh!

Some other results from tonight's experiments:

1. The DVD5 was waiting for me with the following on its display: "W-DOG"... Huh? I had left it in sleep mode from the previous night.

2. I confirmed that DTS has better performance than Dolby 5.1. The switching noise is less & the resultant volume & quality of audio is tangibly improved.

3. DVD with Dolby Mono: The switching noise was still present but not to the extent when playing a Dolby 2.0 DVD.

4. Completely removing the display and its PSU from the system had no audible impact on the switching sound.

5. CD playback exhibited the "switching" sound imediately prior to the audio track playing But, it was at a reduced level compared to DVD.

6. With DTS selected fom the DVD menu, the DVD5 would momentarily flash "operation not possible" at the start of the video.

7. Title button: When using Dolby 5.1 or Dolby Stereo 2.0, pressing the "title" button on the remote provides the loudest, nastiest switching sound. Use the "title" button with care!

Thanks for bearing with me & sorry for the bandwidth!

Hi Orlac

As per my last post.

Can you mail info@naim-audio.com (This is naim HQ ,not NANA) so we can look at your issues.

regards

(I was carbon-copied–did it not arrive there yet?)

I read this thread with interest because it echos my findings on having a DVD5 on home demo. Used only stereo outputs there are many many disks where there are big changes in volume level between the menus and film, also many disks where the audio track of the title menus does not play at all or does not kick in immediately.

Would be interested to know when these firmware issues are resolved.

Gary

Hi AV@Naim,

I sent an email to info@naim-audio.com as originally requested yesterday.

Seeing your repeated request above: I have sent another e-mail today with a full description of the issues & the system set up.

I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards,

Paul.

AV@Naim will be back@Naim today.

Thanks David D, Adam & AV@Naim,

Just wanted to let the forum know that Naim has responded favorably & are taking a closer look at the DVD5 issues.

Kind regards,

Paul.