Death

I believe in an afterlife but I'm not sure if that is just an artifact of my instinct for survival.

I wanted to end my first post with "have a nice day, hope you don't die".

But I thought that would be too flippant...

I'm interested in the consistency in the reports of 'near death experiences' and I've also had a similar experience myself.

Some have tried to write off the experiences as the subjective impressions of a damaged, near-death brain but I believe that to be unlikely. My own experience leads me rather to believe that it's a 'natural', psychedelic experience.

Of course, near death experiences don't give any clue as to post death experiences. Nevertheless the question that comes to my mind when I consider them is "Why?". What is their evolutionary value?

Regards
Steve M

You’re not alone in your thoughts John K R. I came close to being a scuba-related statistic about five years ago. Rather than being something that I had little control over and less time to react, such as a car acident, I was faced with a situation that arose due to my own impetuosity, and the outcome was directly linked to my next action. It’s impossible to describe it, but feeling as though you’re being crushed in a bench vice wouldn’t be a bad analogy.

Rather than help reconcile me with the end that is inevitable for us all, it made me fear death even more, perhaps with a heightened sense of panic.

Afterlife? – I think not, perhaps this viewpoint contributes to a dread of one’s own mortality. BTW the “life passing in front of me” thing didn’t happen – maybe I wasn’t close enough?

Kev.

edit: - to 7V's point about near-death experiences - perhaps the massive release of adrenalin in some circumstances can lead to this? Comments?

quote:

Originally posted by toad:
edit: - to 7V's point about near-death experiences - perhaps the massive release of adrenalin in some circumstances can lead to this? Comments?

I believe that noradrenalin can act as a psychedelic. Even so, the intake of massive amounts of adrenelin or other psychedelics are unlikely to lead to these particular 'hallucinations' under other (non near-death) circumstances.

Regards
Steve M

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
I'm interested in the consistency in the reports of 'near death experiences' and I've also had a similar experience myself.

Some have tried to write off the experiences as the subjective impressions of a damaged, near-death brain but I believe that to be unlikely. My own experience leads me rather to believe that it's a 'natural', psychedelic experience.

Of course, near death experiences don't give any clue as to post death experiences. Nevertheless the question that comes to my mind when I consider them is "Why?". What is their evolutionary value?

Regards
Steve M

They are just a side-effect, if you like, of other psychosomatic mechanisms useful to you while you're alive. It's like saying, what is the evolutionary value of dreams? There isn't one.

I hope no-one's looking forward to some sublime experience as they make their transition from this world to the next; once the neurons that cause you to be you, as a conscious entity, stop firing altogether, I think you'll find that that's it. Extinction.

As I've said before, that's fine by me! Anyone who wants to live forever in ANY form must have a hyperactive ego gland!!

EW

Death's what you make it.

If nothing exists beyond death then that would be nothing to fear at all.
It's having death hijacked by the religions to keep their coffers overflowing that has made it something to be afraid of.
One can't even argue for reincarnation. Where would the vast number of new souls come from to fill the bodies in our ever more over-populated world? It doesn't make any more sense than the heaven and hell insurance policy endlessly pushed by the churches.
The reminder that you only make this journey but once should be tattooed on everybody's forehead. So every time they look in the mirror you will see..... back-to-front writing?

quote:

Originally posted by domfjbrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Lomo:
Now where was this phrase first heard
"DEATH IS SO PERMANENT"

Personally, I reckon there's reincarnation/gaia, not "nothing", but who knows? You can't find out and come back to report it.

Trouble with reincarnation seems to be that you don't return as yourself so if you don't know you've been reincarnated, what's the point?

Near death experiences are probably hallucinations due to lack of oxygen to the brain.

The thought of an afterlife might give comfort but what would this afterlife be and would you really want it?

Well, I'm back home now, am still struggling to come off of night shift, but am enjoying living....

Good meaty subject death, which I don't think to be morbid at all - it's inevitable...that's all....but the discussions here are quite interesting.

My thoughts.....
After having come very close to ending my own life, through my own actions (a few years ago now), and feeling like I have been given a second chance, I have never felt more alive!
I do not fear death...but...
After having recently married I have thought about it in a different light.....especially due to my work....
The fact I spend two weeks on a rusty old oil rig that is suffering from years of neglect - just look up Cormorant Alpha on google and you'll see what I mean...explosion this...gas leak that...chopper crash then.....etc etc.
It puts me at a slightly higher risk of leaving this thing called life....but also my beautiful wife....
I have started thinking more about her than myself - when going down the concrete legs for example....topical subject seeing as 'Shell' have 'killed' 3 guys down one of their legs on the Brent Bravo in the past year....
I worry more about how Alison would cope with my death, than I would.....which brings me onto my next thought....

I'm not sure in what I believe.....

After watching my Uncle die slowly of cancer when I was a teenager, who was 38, didn't smoke, ran several marathons around the world and who was the last person I thought could die! It gave me a sense that god wasn't there for him, or us....and being brought up by parents that didn't have a faith I don't think I have one either....
Alison on the other hand was brought up by a family that have a Christian faith and she herself is an elder in our local church (of Scotland) and she doesn't fear death either, but for different reasons.....we have talked about this and she believes that god will look after her.
I must admit that when we attend service on a Sunday I feel as though I get something out of it....hard to describe really, maybe we just have a good minister, but what he talks about really hits home sometimes.

I don't want to change this topic from death to faith, or religion, but lets just say I still have doubt about what is death......apart from it being......the end.

Cheers,
Ali

Get out with young people and enjoy life. As I said before, Death is so permanent.

quote:

Originally posted by Lomo:
Death is so permanent.

Let's hope so!

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
One can't even argue for reincarnation. Where would the vast number of new souls come from to fill the bodies in our ever more over-populated world?

If you believe in Gaia, then the souls of trees, plants and insects - things that are being made extinct on a daily basis - and other animals, birds, etc. can be factored in along with humans. Don't always assume you'll come back as a homosapian. I intend to come back as a cat or a whale or something, but it's probably just fade-to-black.

As for God - where's that? Mum's been a full-on Catholic all her life (her brother's a franciscan monk!), and it was man, not god, that gave her radio-therapy to cure her ovarian/breast cancer, and man's medicine (Guiness, amongst other things, on doctor's orders) that helped her recover from her heart attack.

God's foresaken my dad big style, and as I've always maintained, if we are made in that sack-of-sh**'s image, then he's hardly worth worshipping, is he? I just hope that if there really IS a god, he won't toy with dad too long when the cancer gets to his spine and internal organs...

As others have said, the "white light" thing is probably oxygen imbalance in the brain; think what happens when you faint.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4541603.stm

"Suffer the little children to come unto me"

Yes indeed!

davewhit, what a dull life you lead!

I wish you the very best.

Warmest regards
Steve M

quote:

Death is definite and there is no evidence (unless you call Colin Fry evidence?) that it is anything but final.

Deanne,

Let's not forget the Taxes, too.

In the US, 'you can get away with a murder until you screw up your income tax'.
A nice Xmas card from my accountant with Al Capone's face on it.

To quote a profound Greg Lake lyric, "Death is...Life"

Well, I think life should have lasted a bit longer. Who can claim to have experienced all he wanted at the time he dies? But eternal life should be worse than a nightmare. You would feel like a prisoner of life, without end. It is a physiological truth, that we all get mortally tired in the end. If life were to be eternal, it had to be constructed otherwise than it actually is, and this is probably unrealistic, since it ,as far as I can se, never was planned by anyone, not even by a so called God.

And after all, you certainly didn´t exist, before you were born. The probable non-existence after death can´t be worse than that, and you tolerated this condition for a long time. Unless you believe in reincarnation, and this is in my opinion rightout ridiculous to do.

Western thinking is that death is the opposite of life; the Eastern philosophy makes things much clearer and easier to endure: death is the opposite of birth.

davewhit, you are correct: we never actually die, as our essence becomes recycled in the fields and forests, streams and oceans, small creatures and humans alike. Life never diminishes. I like your attitude; it's not the time (we think) we have left, it's what we do with it.

pe-zulu, you are correct: I went through a period in my 40's when the fear of death was in me; a wise person (actually an accountant in Delhi!) asked me, "Well, how did you feel before you were born?"

Death is possibly the most eco-friendly thing man will do in his lifetime.

Make use of your time and fear nothing but life itself. Enjoy the ride !

Davewhit

If you didn´t read my words like a certain "person" reads the Book, you would realise that I should be happy with some more years than the usual 50 - 80 years, and well, 100 more or 800 perhaps, but eternal life?
I shiver at the thought.

Regards,

Mmm

If 70 is the expected norm ......... will Mick choose to expire at 69 just to be on the safe side ?

quote:

Death is possibly the most eco-friendly thing man will do in his lifetime.

Guess this is why we need wars and natural desaster to to prevent the over population. ( why am I thinking the Soylent Green... )