Ever had trouble with car thieves?

andy

As to the first; to which examples do you refer?

The second; not one whit.

Deane

Deane,

There is nothing wrong with identifying when something isn't working, and trying to alter it so as it does. The way you can do this takes many forms. i have checked today, and there is nothing anywhere that says i have said anything legally out of line, regarding my occupation or personally. I tread that line very carefully thanks.

By all means keep your comments coming, but a 'why' to 'what' you are saying would be nice e.g. why specifically is my observation on the way the judicial system works or doesn't on occasions is wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
why specifically is my observation on the way the judicial system works or doesn't on occasions is wrong?

andy

As I've said before, your position affords you powers that ordinary citizens/subjects cannot draw upon without liability.

Simply put, and because of the special position you occupy in society, I think you ought to hold yourself above comment unless it is within a forum such as policy analysis in which your comment is specifically sought.

I wouldn't tolerate policemen shooting off their mouths about the judiciary within my own jurisdiction and would make it a matter of complaint to the powers that be if it were to occur. Certainly, it is quite acceptable for prosecuting powers, such as police prosecutors and the relevant investigating officers, to comment on the outcome of a particular case because they are a party to that case - but that is quite different from individual sworn officers passing general comment in respect of the Queen's judges in public fora.

Deane

Deane,

You are entitled to your opinion. But it is just that, your opinion.

I'll note your stance in future and taylor my reply accordingly, if I see a need to do so.

BTW - you only pick on the negative slant of any comments I make - interesting you avoid the positive ones. An example of this is that you imply I just target judges, when i have not done so.

I also take exeption to your slight about me shooting my mouth off - how do you know that I don't know examples of good and bad practice by all aspects of the system, and that I have not personally and professionally sought to resolve and recognise such practice?

You don't just create change by keeping quiet - you consult, compare etc

I note that on two occasions you have 'shot' your mouth off' and then softly retracted your comments.

andy c!

andy

Just how do you see your occupation? Is it just a job within which you must keep to certain rules like in any other job?

If you had never volunteered that you are a policeman then your remarks would have been those of a private citizen - but if you are visible as a policeman then you are most certainly not a private citizen.

Deane

ps: what is so interesting about my avoiding the "positive" comments you make? Have you understood none of my points?

quote:

but if you are visible as a policeman then you are most certainly not a private citizen.

I am entitled to be treated just as fairly as you. No more. No less. I have not waived that right because of whatever vocation i choose.

quote:

what is so interesting about my avoiding the "positive" comments you make?

Because i am trying to be balanced in my replies. It is very easy to latch on to bad practice, but not to praise good practice, don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:

quote:

but if you are visible as a policeman then you are most certainly not a private citizen.

I am entitled to be treated just as fairly as you. No more. No less. I have not waived that right because of whatever vocation i choose.

You digress. There is no inference that could be properly drawn from anything I have said that you are not entitled to fair treatment.

so when I am not at work, i am still at work, right?

Nor do you give a valid reason yet that provided my comments are balanced, evidenced, pay due respect to the rules of disclosure, not break any rules or breach any legislative requirements, that I should not assist with good debate on topics of which i have considerable experience - both good and bad I might add.

I am entitled to a personal opinion, am i not?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:

quote:

what is so interesting about my avoiding the "positive" comments you make?

Because i am trying to be balanced in my replies. It is very easy to latch on to bad practice, but not to praise good practice, don't you think?

Balance? By all means have your opinions and make them public. I am just commenting on the appropriateness of your particular choice to blend the position that you hold with the opinions that you have. I think I can safely assume you hold no high rank with the police force.

But were you of high rank would you make that rank and your opinions about the judiciary known on an internet forum?

I note your tendency to dissemble in the face of direct questions.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
so when I am not at work, i am still at work, right?

Absolutely. Yes! You are never off duty. What do you take me for Andy? What did they teach you at policeman school over there?

andy

Can you live your life any way you choose within the law? Or would your bosses take exception to certain things?

Deane

Deane,
to conclude U seem to think that I have completely dissed the judicial system. I have not done so. I have said that on occasions decisions have been made that have been wrong. I have suggested that various parties involved on occasion have got things worng. This is hardly new news.
You don't need me to tell you that - these decisions have been well publicised elsewhere.

But because it me saying it this is wrong?

Fine. I have got the message now.

quote:

Can you live your life any way you choose within the law? Or would your bosses take exception to certain things?

i think you know the answer to this one, Deane?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Deane,
to conclude U seem to think that I have completely dissed the judicial system.

<shakes head> No Andy. I don't think that you've done anything of the sort.

I have been talking of principles not specifics. The principles of the justice system are high ones - lofty, in fact - and the exercise of power within that system is a grave matter indeed.

Deane

One of the principles you mention is that of accountability. Another is Justification.

I would say the use of 'grave' matter is a bit 'down'. I agree it is a serious matter, but when carried out fairly and impartially it can do profund good.

People who hold public office, whatever vocation that may be, should be accountable for their actions.

Would you not agree?

As a matter of interest, do you hold a job that is accountable to the public?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
As a matter of interest, do you hold a job that is accountable to the public?

No. In fact I am completely indolent and am a drain on society (with internet access to boot).

Why do you ask?

I am accountable to the very person that owns the company that I work for and he directly pays my wages.

Does that count ?
Does it make a difference ?

In any job - you are accountable. The Public Sector often has more levels of bureaucracy to blur the difference between right and wrong.

Just curious - comes with the territory I guess

LTD,
I am not only accountable to senior officers who inturn are so to the Govnt etc, I am also indirectly accountable via the IPCC if the crap hits the fan, the courts if thats crimminal or civil, and finally to the member of public who expects a certain level of service.

quote:

I note your tendency to dissemble in the face of direct questions.

Now I actually know what dissemble means, Deane, which questions have I 'evaded' answers to (without good justification either actually replied or implied)?

Also, i do have to be careful not to describe actual events, for obvious reasons. Therefore I have to be generalistic to a degree...

PS - i have never actually said what i do, have I?