Thank You Streamers!!!

Buying anything s/h could be seen as denying money to the original creator, but I think it is widely accepted as OK. Although I have kept the CDs I've ripped, it would be hard to match them to my digital juke box as I often create pseudo-albums from compilations and bonus cuts. I could use play lists to do this, but didn't think of that at the time. 

Thing is hearing something on a s/h CD often means I end up buying the vinyl release or would be keen to buy the high resolution version if it became available. So many times down the line the artist does get something. Of course, buying second hand Janis Joplin discs doesn't hurt Janis one bit. 

With digital downloads I have bought direct from the artist (when they don't use PayPal, which I don't trust) - in the hope the money goes to the right folk and not record company executives. 

What I'd say Joe is you are doing nothing wrong whatsoever in buying and enjoying s/h CDs. Surely, it is better they are listened than sit unloved in a shop. Most artists care more about having their work heard than anything else.  

Hi Aleg -

Very cool web site, and with very snappy performance!  This surprised me given its regional focus.

I poked around enough to see that there are a fair number of CD-quality downloadable bargains -- 3-5€.  Only spent about fifteen minutes total looking, so hard to tell how widespread the bargains really are...but there are definitely some there.

If this were a US-based operation, I would immediately bookmark it, and check it along side of my usual sources for CD bargains (Amazon, eBay, Audiogon, etc.).   I agree with what Tog says....moving to a world of downloadable digital music is inevitable, and, truth be told, I find it somewhat reassuring that operations like qobuz even exist...

One aspect of all of this that we haven't talked yet is provenance.  Given the whole silver disc thing started 30 years ago, we've seen that many, if not most, CD's have been reissued many times.   US, Japanese, German versions on top of all of that (and SACD, DVD-A, Blu Ray).   My impression is that, for many CD's, there are specific releases -- originals or specific re-masterings -- that are more preferable to own versus others.  So how do we know where a download comes from?   For Coltrane's "A Love Supreme", did Qobuz pick the McMaster remaster...or is it the hotter, brighter RVG Edition?  I can not tell from the web site art work, or from the web page descriptions (translated by google to english).  For new releases, this is not an issue obviously....but sadly for me, I buy maybe one brand new release per...month?

Please understand -- not trying to pick on Qobuz!    For a relatively new venture, it appears to be very cool, with a ton of potential!  The issue of multiple versions, and the endless chatter on the Steve Hoffman forum about which version sounds best, just popped into my head.   I do get it though -- this could be just another potential growth path for one CD-quality download site to differentiate itself from its competitors.

Based on what I just saw, it still feels like we are maybe 2-to-5 years away from internet sites like this totally eliminating the need or rationale behind CD shopping.   I figure I have another 1000-2500 used CD purchases left before it no longer makes any sense for me to keep doing so.  We'll see...

You do come up with some good stuff Aleg -- thanks a lot for posting that man!

Hook

PS - I will not mark the day where my CD shopping ends with any sadness.... 'cause I'll still be out there hunting for vinyl! 

I'm new to this whole download lark so excuse a few naive questions please.

I've had a look at quobuz and it's a nice site.  What I'm wondering is can I download an album to my PC which I then burn to CD to rip onto my HDX?  And what about hi res....does that have to go on a memory stick to play through the nDac or can I download hi res files to a folder on my PC which the HDX sees?......doh!  Thanks.  G

Hi Graeme -

I don't think any of that is necessary -- just download to a "network share" folder.

The HDX is supposed to be able to automatically find any network shares that you've set up (e.g., a folder on your PC, or a folder on a NAS).   Check out the manual for more details.

And oh yeah, the HDX should be able to find and play music files up to 24/192, but according to the specs, it appears that 24/176.2 is downsampled to 24/88.1.  This is not a big deal though -- it's just that if you have the option to download an album at 24/88.1 versus 24/176.2, you might as well do that and save some money.

Good luck.

Hook

There could be more than streaming in play here. Like a recession? People will do as they please but I find it very hard to believe that "people like us" will buy, rip and dispose of CDs. My CD collection has grown at a greater rate since I started streaming. They are gradually moving off shelves and into safe storage. Disposing of the source material strikes me as a short sighted move. There is some overlap with CDs owned and HiRes downloads but some of the CDs are rare and valuable as are a considerably greater number not available in HiRes. I still want to own them. I just feel that (in my case) they sound better streamed.

Thanks Hook.  G

Aleg,

Many thanks for recommending qobuz. Visited previously and allowed my poor grasp of French to put me off experimenting. Everything about it is a doddle to use (Google translate not required) and I am currently basking in immediate access to the new Keane album (Strangeland). Vocals would have been killed by a 320kbs stream. Not so fussed about 'Perfect Symmetry' so £7 saved already.

For those who don't mind paying a bit extra to ensure the survival of companies who provide quality products (hhmmm sounds familiar) heartily recommended.

Andy

I think Hook brings up a very pertinent point though. The mastering of some of these albums is abolsutely core to how they sound. We've been messing with different cuts of well known albums on vinyl lately and the differences are enormous, even with the same basic master. For example, we were trying the latest cut of Astral Weeks and a friend had brought his original orange label version. The difference was so stark, you could be forgiven for thinking it was a different album in places.

So it's important for these sites to identify not just the recording but also the provenance. After all, it's generally recognized that Dark Side Of The Moon was originally pressed in Japan quite quietly, but it's also the best transfer of the album. 2nd hand copies (the Black Triangles in Japan or  - even rarer - the original UK releases with black label, which are the same thing) go online for heaps of money (£30 or more) and so these downloads would be highly prized, if made available.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank,

If I could buy a UK first press solid blue triangle version of DSOM for £30 I would literally be 'over the moon'. A mint copy goes for excess of £500. You would be lucky to get an early 2nd press for £30. These copies are more available and very good indeed.

As a long time record collector the best advise I can give, with a few exceptions, is to buy original 1st, 2nd or even third press copies rather than recent repressings, if the are available and affordable. 

I agree with your comment about the quality and provenance of downloads 

ATB

Steve 

Every recording is created by a mastering engineer from the original recordings.

No recording is released without editing.

Especially when using analogue tapes as in many of the jazz recordings, the endresult is essentially created by a mastering engineer.

That way you can end up with the horrible Rudy van Gelder masterings from his later years, or the exceptionally well mastered recordings by Steve Hoffman or Kevin Gray. The result of what they produce is thenStudio Master, not the original recording from the recording studio.

Studio Master can than be downsampled and reduced in bitdepth to be suitable for CD release, but the mastering remains the same.

-

Aleg

Steve, I was talking about the first pressings of the DSOTM CD. This was the earliest days of CD and there were no pressing plants in Europe so they were pressed for the UK, but they were distinguished from the Japanese market versions by the different label. The Japanese versions had the Black Traingle printed over half the disc, whereas the UK versions are a solid black label and look perfectly ordinary except in a little box to one side it says Made In Japan.

@Aleg, indeed, I think the Astral Weeks I was listening to is a Kevin Gray (?) cut and it's so good I've bought a copy (can be had for £15 and well worth it) even though I've only heard the album once. Although this is vinyl, a lot of these reissues are being put to SACD and CD, so the benefits could become available to digi-owners.

I was really using the vinyl cuts as an analogy for the amount of difference one can get. As another example, I have a reissue of Rumours which was much touted when it came out because it was limited run, 180g vinyl etc etc. I can't play it - it's flat as a pancake and as dynamic as me on a Saturday night - which is to say not at all. When I heard the recent (Hoffman?) 45rpm cut I was gobsmacked - obviously the same master since all the levels were the same but dynamic, powerful and oh so much more engaging than me on Saturday night! My copy is in the post...

I don't know how these whizzes get so much better music out of the same masters but crikey it's amazing.

@Tog - absolutely! There are a handful of these people around like Doug Sax, Steve Hoffman, Kevin Gray and Bernie Grundman who seem to get it right 95% of the time (nobody's perfect) and their work is well worth searching for. And when it comes to reviewing the new cuts Michael Fremer does an amazing job. Unfortunately, this attention to detail seems to be reserved for vinyl cuts which is a pain when you want digital versions. Perhaps it's because they can and do charge more for it. Of course, the beauty of vinyl is that you just look in the lead out groove and see whose initials are in the dead wax. If it says SH, it's Steve Hoffman and you KNOW whose cut you've got. With digital, it all needs to be stored as metadata and who knows if the person filling in the info got it right...

In fact, I hate these geeky details. Life's too short for this kind of uncertainty.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank,

My mistake. I thought you were talking about vinyl. 

That 45rpm of Rumours is something special bur the new ST 45prm 'Fleetwood Mac' album by Bernie Grunman isn't as dynamic. Pity.

ATB

Steve