Internet radio dropouts

Hi SImon,

I already tested this but also same has problem.

Cheers,

Marco

Cheers Marco, it could be you and Peter have different root cause issues? Is your Internet Router the Belkin one? What did you change it to? Do you get the glitch with upnp?

Hi Simon,

Our root cause is same and my router is linksys E4200, i don't have any problem on UPNP streaming.

I can point to point list out the problem detail as below again.

• NDX use wireless connection to 320kbp iRadio is fine, nothing any buffer drop issue.
• NDX use wire connection to 320kbp iRadio has buffer drop issue. (Buffer level cycles will 100% > 90 > 70 > 50 > 30 > 0 > 30 > 50 > 70 .......)
• NDX bypass the router and directly connect to the boardband modem, it also had same issue.
• I tried many wired/wireless PC connect to the Linn 320kbps iRadio, all is fine, no buffer drop issue.

So i don't think it is the network infrastructure in my home, then let naim to investigate it first.

I will update all when i get the latest update.

Cheers,

Marco

Hi Marco, well keep us on the forum informed, there is obviously more info than you have shared if you are categoric the issue is the same route cause as Peter.  

Fortunately my NDX has no issue with my Cisco 870 router with web radio. 

Good luck - BTW - I think you said you were network savvy? If so have you done ping tests against your web radio stations with -l and -f flags to see if there is MTU fragmentation happneing wqith the default you are using on your LAN. Interesting your issue is only via the internet.

Simon

Hi Simon,

320k on your home is ok ?

The stange is wireless OK, wire not OK, hahahhahahaha 

Marco

Hi Marco, yes 320k is fine, and the buffer remains pretty much at  100% for paradise radio and BBC3 hidef, and I only use wired connections on the  NDX.

Cheers

Simon

Hi Marco,

I think it's rather a sweeping statement (and somewhat incorrect) to say that the root cause of your problem is the same as Peters without understanding or knowing what the root cause of the problem is ... you have an issue where over a wired connection you have a buffering issue and over wireless you don't ... this appears to be the same issue as Peter is having but that doesn't necessarily mean that the cause is the same.

This is why we really don't want to start investigating issues on the forum and why we ask for any users or customers with problems to go through the correct support process. 

I understand that you don't think it is the network infrastructure in your home however experience here generally has indicated otherwise in other support instances but I am not blinkered to the possibility - however the important thing is to identify what the problem is...

Regards

Phil

Hello, just resurrecting this thread as it is identical to an issue with my new NDX.

I have a  fully wired network including an 8 port switch and am experiencing the OPs problem of the buffer emptying out when listening to 320kbps iRadio and sound stopping every five seconds or so. I am able to achieve relatively stable playback of these stations via Wifi but not wired. When wired I am able to stream 24/192 files via UPnP so it is just the iRadio traffic that is a problem.

I have seen several threads like this one but no definitive solutions for it. Is there any new information?

Previous posts seem to implicate the broadband routers being used. Mine is an ISP provided one from Belkin called BOB2. It was required in order for us to get access to IPTV (not being used at the same time) and so changing the router out may not be a workable solution for me.

Some people mention setting up QoS settings in the router but I don't really know how to do that.

Would it make any difference if I give the NDX a fixed IP address?

I have our local distributor in Oz on the case and I have sent an enquiry to Naim HQ.

Hoping for some advice from you guys...

Interestingly the demo NDX I had for a few days didn't suffer from dropouts.

thanks.

Peter / Phil,

I also have the same problem with my Unitiqute 2.

My network is fully wired with Cat6 cable. The Qute is directly connectet to an Cisco EPC3925 modem. The internet connection is 90 mb/s from Ziggo (Netherlands)

Streaming from my WDLivebook Nas is no problem, even 24/192 files play without interruption. But 320 kb Iradio stations won't work well. The music stops every 20 - 30 sec and the buffer drops from 100 % to 30 %.

I have installed the latest firmware update. Is it possible that the problem has arisen with the latest firmware update? I can't remember having this problem before the update.

I hope you can find the problem for this issue.

Peter

Hi.

The reply I have from Naim via the local distributor is that this is a hardware limitation of the NDX (and presumably the other streamers) in the face of somewhat unreliable provision of the hi res streams even when local ISP speeds are adequate. The NDX has only got a 3 second buffer at 320kbps. Their server products don't suffer from this issue as they provide the radio stream via UPnP.

The solutions offered were: lower res streams, use a wireless connection or get a naim server.

Most of my listening is UPnP of my own collection and a bit of lower res iRadio stuff anyway but it is somewhat disappointing to not be able to use a "flagship" feature due to hardware limitations. I can't justify a UnitiServe.

Does anyone know how to send the radio streams via UPnP using Asset on a mac?

I believe you can't actually add stations this way so you need to use stations already provided in their station list and I don't know if the Naim Choice stations are there. I haven't tried any of this yet. 

I wonder if Naim could optimise the radio streams somehow? The Naim Exclusive Radio Paradise 320kbps is the most reliable one for me. The Naim Radio station is the least reliable.

Anyway, it looks like there is no solution for this issue at the moment.

John

I am suffering drop outs with my NDS, Radio Paradise but also Radio two and thats only 128 kb's.  Wired connection.

Having fixed IP doesn't help. It is a shame that a product of this class (and price) does not perform the purposed it was intended for. 

I replaced my NDX/XPS with NDS/555PS a year ago, but am still having this drop out problem. I have given up listening to any stations higher than 128k long ago. Quite pathetic but luckily this does not bother me too much because I listen to vtuner internet radio mostly through a PC/DAC/amp/speakers desktop system in the study.

I am also experiencing the dropout problems with my UnitiQute while listening to 320k iRadio streams as well as 128k streams. These happen randomly, not at any specific time of day)

I have a wired connection to a FritzBox Gigabit Router and I have no issues streaming high res files from my Synology NAS.

Internet is Fibre-optic (30Mbps) so there shouldn't be any issues with internet streaming either.

Besides I can stream HD video without any problems.

It seems that quite a few of us are experiencing this dropout issue with iRadio... I think it's time NAIM investigates this further.

I can knock iradio off as a feature of the NDS, its unplayable with drops out several times a song.

I use Radio Paradise alot & radio 2

It does possibly appear to be some sort of issue with the Naim TCP window buffer and TCP flow contrail interaction with the streaming board payload buffer logic, as the issue is not consistent.

if it is streamer board related, then I'd be surprised if Naim can't fix with a firmware change.

Simon

Hi.

I have been in contact with the developer of minim server & streamer and have a workaround for the radio issue that is doing the job for me. I play the station over the network via UPnP which is just what the Naim Streamer products do.

It involves making a M3U playlist with the radio streams you wish to play and saving it as plain text in the music folder of your NAS. You then need to turn on UPnP compatibility mode on NStream and clear the UPnP cache, rescan with Minim and you should see a playlist - I called mine iRadio.

You should see your radio stations as pairs of entries (1 plays the station direct and 1 plays the stream via UPnP). Only the UPnP entry works for me. Just tap on the station and off you go. You don't get the station info that you get with the real iRadio but you do get the music!

Below is my M3U file in plain text in case anyone wants to try.

If you want to you should look at the discussion at the minimstreamer forum "Configuring radio streams with minim watch"

Be interested to hear how this works for others.

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:-1,[LCl] Linn Radio Classical
http://radio.linnrecords.com/c...assical/playlist.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[LRa] Linn Radio
http://radio.linnrecords.com/c...nnradio/playlist.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[LJR] Linn Radio Jazz
http://radio.linnrecords.com/c...innjazz/playlist.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[BBC1] BBC Radio 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r1_aaclca.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[BBC2] BBC Radio 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r2_aaclca.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[BBC3] BBC Radio 3
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[BBC6] BBC 6 Music
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r6_aaclca.pls
#EXTINF:-1,[ARa] Absolute Radio
http://network.absoluteradio.c...ive.pls?service=vrhq
#EXTINF:-1,[Cap] Capital Radio
http://ice-the.musicradio.com:80/CapitalMP3
#EXTINF:-1,[CFM] Classic FM
http://ice-the.musicradio.com:80/ClassicFMMP3
#EXTINF:-1,[RPA] Radio Paradise 320
http://stream-uk1.radioparadise.com:80/aac-320
#EXTINF:-1,[NAIM] Naim Radio
http://37.130.228.60:8090/

John

Just noticed that the post above has shortened the URLs for the Linn stations so you will need to dig out the complete URLs for those if you want to play them and paste into your M3U file.

I also should have mentioned that the developer said to transcode to WAV so in the transcoding options of minim watch you should enter *:wav or *:wav24

J

My dealer suggested I switch my NDX to wireless from wired Ethernet, if I do not play hi-res local files often, which I do not.  Problem solved!  He said Naim are working on a fix for the wired vector for iRadio.  "You are not alone," he said.

I have both the NDX and a newly-added UQ1, both wireless, streaming iRadio without issue.  Multi-room works beautifully, too!

Nick

I've been having similar problems with dropouts over the past couple of weeks with a Qute2 and NDS and I'm in a bit of a Catch-22 with iRadio.

I had (reluctantly) switched the Qute2 from wireless to a wired connection over powerline connectors to avoid problems with the network connection being dropped by the Qute, but this past weekend iRadio was unusable over the wired connection due to the regular dropouts. I switched the Qute back to wireless and iRadio has been fine since, and fortunately I haven't been experiencing the "No Network" problems that caused me to switch in the first place.

I'm encouraged to hear that the wired dropout problem with iRadio has been recognised by Naim as I have no intention of running the NDS over wireless. I also hope they will address the network dropout issues that led me to employ the powerlines in the first place. Fingers crossed the system remains stable now it's running wirelessly again.

Adrian

Spoke too soon...the Qute dropped the connection overnight and was displaying "No Network" again this morning...

Is anyone else hearing random popping sounds on BBCR6?

iRadio on an ND5XS I should have added.