Pricing of High Res Downloads

Hi res is not simply a CD made available on line, I presume they are remastering from the original.

Yes of course they are gouging, but its not simply a case of the space it takes on their server

> Because I think that most of the labels offering this high-res stuff are trying to rip off their customers

+1 

I can hear an advantage with 24-bit, but the sample rate seems irrelevant ... I have a 24-bit Abbey Road and I think it sounds better than the 16 bit version, but is inferior to the vinyl and cassette. Perhaps the 32 bit version .... will .... and in the end, the bits you take Is equal to the bits you make.

The QuteHD is an all-digital design and allows operation from a single SPDIF connection from 32 kHz to 384 kHz.

Oh well, you know it makes cents. 

Does anybody here still use their DAT recorder at double speed? 

Yes, I should have made it clearer that I realise there's a bit more to it. With old analog stuff, someone's carefully remastered and transferred to high res digital; and with new stuff it's probably pretty simple, since one should be getting the studio master at its originally recorded rate. But I think the thrust of my argument still holds.

Paul

It is worth using Audacity to check they are not simply upsampled and are genuine high resolution. 

All the best, Guy 

Good point, Guy. And Hi-Fi News have a monthly feature checking this out.

we were ripped off in the 80s for cds. ripped off with new vinyl now. and now downloads what changes

Hi Guy

I have Audicity but am not sure how to check whether HD is genuine. Could you elaborate more please?

Pricing is never based on anything.

Pricing in the capitalist economy is determined by guessing how much money can be extorted from the interested customer. And certain countries will favour their own inhabitants over others.

Comparing different internet shops, esp. if priced in US dollars, can save you a bit.

I often use qobuz where a high-res is usually about 15 - 25 % more expensive than CD quality.

I also noticed recently that eclassical.com was again below that on a certain album.

So shop around for some price comparisson. With the internet there are nearly no boundaries where to buy from.

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Aleg

As long as the consumer pays the price, the seller will continue to "rip us off" - they only charge it because someone is willing to pay it, so in that sense it's "worth" what they are charging.  If we really don't like the pricing, then we need to vote with our wallets, and see where the prices are in a year or so...because they WILL move product one way or the other.

Goon, I think the other key point behind high price  on non lossy high def downloads is there is very little competition, as I assume its seen as a niche product. When or if it becomes mainstream and the number of resellers increases, the price will tumble down.

Perhaps you could try arguing that the hires studio master should be cheaper than the redbook downsample. There is at least one extra (down sampling) step involved in producing the redbook version, so it actually costs more to make!

It would also be nice to know the provenance of the historical hires material, such as the Linn/UMG releases. Are these new remasters (from old analogue tapes), are they copies of existing digital masters, who engineered the remasters .. 

Goon

Many limitations can be circumvented.

HDTracks and other sites that use IP-filtering to exclude non-inhabitants can be circumvented by using a VPN service to a server located in their country. Much has already been written on that option. As much as they try to exclude me (and force me to pay more than their inhabitants) I will try equally as hard to get around their limitations.

With regard to the restricted availability of labels outside of their own controlled channels, there is not much that can be done. But Naim label recordings have become available through Qobuz http://www.qobuz.com/label/nai...gement-ecoute-albums at prices that are lower than or equal to those on Naim's own site.

Again VPN services make a lot possible.

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Aleg

Hi Gents,

I can assure you, from the POV of Naim Label, that the cost of sale of Hi Def downloads and running our own boutique download store is proportionate to that of selling CD - we are certainly not trying to rip anyone off and no fat cats are involved! Also, going back to Meet Me In London tapes to retrack in 192khz was one of our riskiest projects this year as a label (it was not simply that we've been waiting to make this level of quality available at a high price - it didn't exist and we have no interest in cheating, as others may). In fact, I'd like to offer more 192kHz music, but it simply isn't already available and repeating the conversion on analogue material with less commercial potential than the above release is a little scary.

Qobuz, which I think is superb, is of sufficient scale to be able to under-price other services, as iTunes did before it. It's all part of the industry. As someone battling to make an independent label work, naturally I hope price-wars do not 'undervalue' HD music to the point where we are not incentivised to continue making it.

Personally, I hope you can all continue to support Naim Label (like many indepedents), because we work very hard to bring interesting, compelling, original music to the fore and always keep QUALITY both technically and creatively in mind, in a way which is getting lost these days. When you buy an album from us, you are helping to perpetuate this philosophy, perhaps for a few £s extra.

I, as I am sure some of you may, buy records in Rough Trade or other brilliant local record store for a £s more, in support of such (perhaps niave!) idealism. Beleiving that everyone is out to get more than they deserve (which is true of some in this industry, but not of all) is a real shame. This is the attitude that recently closed the fantastic Rounder Records in Brighton after 46 years of business.

The warm sense of belonging when you go direct to a label or an artist or make impulse purchases in a small record shop is not something everyone gets, but if you do, please do keep coming to NaimLabel.com to enjoy our music.

Simon

It is not that I begrudge you a fair income for a good product, not at all.

And indeed I'm willing to pay that bit more to support the smaller independents. In fact I'm very pleased to discover (for me) all kinds of new smaller independent labels from France and seeing new labels being created by conductors like Sir Eliot Gardiner (SDG Soli Deo Gloria), Herreweghe (Phi records) and ensembles like Tallis Scholars (Gimell Records). I applaud all this and internet and digital technology is making it possible.

And it is indeed not against Naim and Naim Label that my grudges go, but foremost to webshops / labels that differentiate their product pricing according to different areas or limit access all together to specific groups, usually benefitting people from their own country most and forcing me to buy through much more expensive channels.

If they are truly supportive of a capitalist system (it has certain positive elements as well ), they would allow free trade. But these companies are not interested in free trade, but only in domination of trade.

To give an example outside the music business. Have you ever compared the store price of a Levy's 501 jeans in the USA (US$35 - $45 = €30 - €36) compared to Western Europe (€ 99.95)? I import them myself via parallel import rather than buy them through official european stores.

It is also not that I'm advertising a price war or go out specifically looking for shops that undercut prices, but I want free access and equal pricing for all, in what is (becoming) a global internet market where country boundaries no longer (need to) exist. I'm very much willing to pay good money for good products and loath the price busting companies that force smaller, local companies and independents out of the market.

So free trade, unlimited access and fair but equal prices for all.

Thumbs up for smaller, independant and quality companies.

Thumbs down for the greedy, overpowering multinationals.

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Aleg

Hi Goon

I have to agree with you. I have purchased 8 albums from Linn in hi res 96 and 192. I will say the quality is excellent and I am impressed but I think £18 is too much! I recently purchased 10 cd's from similar artists for much, much less onLine. I feel I'm getting real value for money here.

I do believe in what Linn and Naim labels are doing but I will now really be selective in the future. In the grander scheme of things, I'd say £12 is a fair price.

Yes, I'd press the 'Go' button a lot more often at around £12.

Simon

My diatribe wasn't really principally aimed at a boutique label like Naim. 'Meet Me in London' was my first hi res purchase, I think it's beautifully done and a fine advertisement for hi res. I don't think that quite absolves of you of responsibility to price your stuff in a way that entices people to buy, but you're not really my target. It's the labels who are putting out quite a lot of stuff on hi res, but pricing it at a massive uplift on their standard res downloads.

Paul