olympics deprecation thread

Hmmm - I think I've heard this facile argument before...

Ok, we are agreed that entertainment is a useful, even necessary part of life. Its just the funding arrangements that are under consideration.

I consider that a variety of funding arrangements is a sensible and practical way forward. eg a mix of "user pays", "tax-funded or subsidised" and "Commercially sponsored".

Cheers

Don

Sorry to disagree with this Jamie, but I do not mind paying tax for healthcare, the police, the defence, the judiciary, fire and emergency services, and many other things that could never be paid for on a private basis! Just not high art or sport as two examples that I find extremely irritating ...

I am sure I cannot be the only one, or else the Tories would demolish the NHS tomorrow if they thought they could get away with it, and give the tax payers - rich and poor - a tax reduction!

ATB from George

So refute it. Don't just call it facile.

I'll start.

Branding and marketing create value by better informing the consumer of the quality of the product. Consumers can confidently buy (for example) Levi jeans, knowing that they are going to get a certain quality. The brand management creates lower risk, and therefore value. this really only works where the quality and durability of the product is difficult to determine at the time of purchase.

For some luxury products, part of the value of the product IS the brand. A Louis Vuitton handbag does not carry items (a handbag's basic function for many) in a superior manner that that is proportional to its price. Yet the consumer derives greater enjoyment from knowing (or displaying) that they are successful enough to afford an expensive handbag. A Rolex doesn't tell better time than a Swatch, but the same argument. The brand, by creating a feeling of superiority in the mind of the consumer has made them more satisfied and therefore happier. 

Brand management creates fewer, larger market shares allowing for economies of scale. BMW, by promoting a brand and therefore selling lots of cars, can make those cars cheaper and better than, say TVR.

Network externalities. Apple, by promoting a single brand with lots of stuff that works together can build a large enough critical mass that people line up to write Apps for them. They can get new product releases onto the front page of major newspapers without having to buy ad space. This wouldn't be available to them without advertising and marketing.

BTW, I don't thing any of these things really changes what I've said. Good products and services should be successful because they are good, not because the CEO hired a wiz-bang marketing and brand management team. And certainly not because the parent company sponsors anything.

So the Global Supreme Soviet decides what is or isn't an appropriate promotion for any product?

I tend to the view that if I see a product that has been extensively advertised, then I tend to discount it as a potential purchase! Not some grand Soviet, but merely free choice, which is better I think.

Though I try to avoid adverts! No tele in the house for example ...

ATB from George

GB Gold number 25 has just been won, female Taekwondo Jade Jones. 

Awesome, was watching it. Three Golds today makes up for none yesterday.

And hasn't the brilliant Nichola Adams got a dazzling smile? It's even better than Jessica E's.

Not all. I'm not suggesting a solution (I don't know of one). I'm just being idealistic. For all its failings, a market-based system has done the best job of making us insanely wealthy.

Actually - I don't think you can buy a Gold Medal (that means a damn) - which is why winning one means something.

In passing, how do you feel about Paralympians?

That's what I mean't by facile.

> In passing, how do you feel about In passing, how do you feel about Paralympians??

I've nothing but admiration for people who try to excel .. people who just get on with things deserve all their success ... lets hope Parallel Olympics is another exciting tournament. 

I have rather mixed feelings about the Orbit - it, is, as one commentator said, "like a catastrophic collision between two cranes" and looks - oddly - a bit out of place in the Olympic Park. But close up, the intertwining forms are rather impressive. And I'm rather looking forward to seeing the view from the top. Can't see it being an icon of the London skyline, though, in the way that the Eye, St Paul's, Battersea Power Station or the Gherkin are.

Not sure about your Tatlin comparison though. I studied History of Art at Uni and my thesis was on Soviet Art from 1917 to 1934. I studied Tatlin's unrealised monument quite extensively and I don't think the two are particularly alike, aside from the helical theme. Anish Kapoor's competing design for an Olympic tower was much more Tatlinesque IIRC

+1 Absolutely fantastic ... everybody was Kung Fu fighting ... hats off to Charlotte, Nichola and Jade (I confess I don't understand Horse Dancing or Taekwondo [is that what Bruce Lee used to do], but thought our competitors were wonderful). 

52 medals of which 25 are Gold ... 

What on earth will I do next week? Just remembered I have to work ...... oh no, oh well

Still never mind, off to see Japan vs. Korea tomorrow at the Millennium 

Do we stand any chance in whatever BMX is?

Sorry I know less about that than I do dressage, but it is always good to learn.   

But that isn't what facile means.You might mean "pointless". That would make more sense.

I don't like the sound of that ... I think we have done a brilliant job with things the way they are ... the London 2012 Olympics are the best thing I've ever seen

Don't I pay for Radio 3 although I never listen to it?

Why do the BBC keep it when so few people tune in? 

I'm sure the list could go on until I find some area somebody values that I don't or vice versa. 

I remain amazed though that we are staging the greatest show ever seen and some folk knock it ... still they can't take it away or our medals . Fear not, for in a few weeks everything will return to boring normal .. nothing worthwhile will happen and the news will be filled with doom and gloom and tedious current affairs and politics ... is that what you want, 'cos that's what'll happen. 

In the meantime, enjoy it - you'll never get the chance again and it is so much easier to criticise than to create.

25 Golds and I was alive to see it ... superb. 

Hi Kevin, isn't the Orbit by Anish Kapour and The two you mention one of the same?

Tatlins Tower also had an observation deck at the top and there is just too many similarities for my liking. But it is symptomatic of architecture and engineering that such a complex structure as Tatlins could not be realised in 1917 (as it was to be taller than the Eifal Tower), but we can today.

Obviously they look different but the fundamental characteristics are very similar, as an architect I just see too many. Its very ugly but structurally impressI've though.

But as Winky was alluding to it represents a pointless waste of money, we have the London Eye. This was a 20 million pound after thought that is effectively copied, it's just very disapointing for me.

You're dead right - apologies! Maybe I was thinking of Gormley's, or Caruso's. It is rather ugly, I agree, and completely out of kilter with its environment.

I think Tatlin's 1,300 foot tower would be difficult to realise even today - he was, after all, an artist not an engineer or an architect. I'm no architect but I would imagine it would present some unbelievable challenges still.

As a member of the trade - do you think it could actually be built? With all those enormous rotating geometric structures inside it as well?

Oh, you'll get no argument from me there.

Glib and superficial in the same way that people seem to derive vicarious pleasure from the actions of athletes they've never met, and with whom they have nothing on common other than that they were born in same country.

"Everyone just says they love my smile so why not use it on the floor? I was kind of America's sweetheart leading into the Games and it made me feel so good that America loved me."

Conceited much, Gabby?

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/olympics...m.html#ixzz236W1OJyN

This is up there with Lochte's "I'll have to leave it to others to decide if I am the greatest ever".

So by this logic, because there seems no way of controlling CEO remuneration and City bonuses, we mustn't argue that they are excessive. Because that would be "facile".

And then there's this guy.....

This hardly originated with these Olympics. Do you follow sports of any kind? Or are you just maximising the amount of piss taking you can get out of this?