Both. I quite enjoy watching the spring classics and the Tour - but not much else. I don't "support" any particular team or athlete. I just like to see excellence. Cancellara dominating a TT. Boonen's PR triumph this year. Cav just spanking the pretenders to his throne in Paris. Even Wiggins in the tour (but you must admit it was a bit boring).

I've been quite upfront about piss taking. See opening post for this thread. This whole thread is a troll. But I am enjoying the discussion. I cannot simply accept (without at least pointing it out) the automatic, saccharin and vicarious "aren't WE great" that goes along with "our" selected representatives' success in the circus.

I've lost my interest in the games when I noticed that NACA5 bending still isn't olympic.

It is an Olympic event, but one competitor was disqualified for using an illegal hair-drier.

No doubt there are some di-hards who would but that's not quite the reality. If you study the history of the NHS whilst the post war Labour Government introduced it both the Liberals and Tories pre-war had written papers promoting a national health service although options for doing it were different including more charitable based systems, a local gov't system (favoured by many in Labour as well or an insurance system. In 1951 Churchill concerned over the funding liability (same old theme!) had it independently reviewed which recommended retention of the centrally funded tax based system. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair both challenged the general construct - Blair commissioned the Wanless review but the outcome was the same - centrally funded tax based system. Funny thing is we fly in the face of just about every other Western European system which are more hybrid insurance based. I wonder how long we can sustain the current model?

Another shift of tack in this topic but out of interest how many of us on this forum partake in organised sport now or have done in the past? How many of us are involved in local clubs? Any elite athletes amongst us?!

I think our amateur sports clubs are really important community resources. I play local league cricket and have noticed an increase recently in grants available to improve facilities etc at our club. Hope this continues.

Bruce

Agreed - presumably the grants from the Lottery Bruce?

It's been superseded now by S800 lifting.  G

A variety of sources actually. County Council, charities and other Government agencies/Quangos. Lottery funds have been rather 'soaked up' by the olympics in the last few years we were told.

Bruce

I hope they don’t get exploited by the circus masters… is my first thought.

Personally I rather like the old 1980’s promotion of ‘Sport For All’ which used to have a logo too, [you may remember it] ...but it would be nicer if sport encouragement, culture, and expertise help was more easily available and acceptable in main steam society for people to benefit from better health and quality of life, and this imo applies for the disabled too.

But this day of age it seems to be all about big money pumped into sport for the elitist squad, or sport for people who can afford it, or the lucky minority who have contacts and the expert help.

The disabled have a very poor deal. Will have to see what materializes after the paralympics, and see if it helps to bring about cultural changes for the better. I hope so but won't hold my breath.

I don't feel qualified to comment on opportunities for the disabled but where i live the opportunities to participate in physical exercise are excellent. Local leisure centres, private gyms, BMX park , tennis club, bowls club. No excuse and from the number of people I see running/walking dogs and in the swimming pool tells me that people really are taking advantage.

Some people are more equal than others.

Presumably, like marketing, bonuses are bad because they don't make products cheaper or better?  But if you accept bonuses, who is to say exactly where on the continuum they become "excessive".  In a similar vein, members of this forum own pre-amps that cost over £10k.  Is this excessive?

China ‘plan to win every single Olympic medal in future’ 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/...uture-144119363.html 

At what cost? 

http://m-batin.livejournal.com/148436.html#cutid1

Exactly. That is why it is interesting to discuss it. If the answer were known and agreed, it wouldn't be very interesting nor controversial.

At some point, bonuses move beyond a simple market function to attract, retain and remunerate the best people appropriately for their value-creating performance. For example, when everyone, even very bad managers get bonuses. At this point they have become excessive (IMO) and become a drag on the efficiency of the system. Debate on issues like this is valid.

Like Strat I don't really recognise this.

Quite a lot of resources here, access for kids and others. Luckily this is also an area with lots of opportunities for cheap simple outdoor recreation. The issue has been getting kids to come along. We hold junior sessions/practice etc but they rarely attend and few commit (often despite parents who encourage). Just my experience. Local clubs (at least in my sport) are not generally underfunded and have reasonable resources in terms of playing areas and simple kit.

Debs, your posts make me wonder where (as well as when) you live sometimes. Are your comments above based on direct experience, or just a viewpoint?

Bruce

A few of points:

1) The Paralympics mean that the infrastructure gets more use, and this is good on a cost-benefit basis

2) The spirit of those participating seems wonderful, much like the vanilla olympics. Perhaps fewer egos on display, but my sample is small, and I am wary of the media filter that perhaps projects a feel-good image that doesn't align with reality

3) Participants in sport derive great satisfaction out of competing (and winning) at what is the pinnacle event for their sport. same as regular olympics. A good thing

4) They are being increasingly better marketed, with increasing corporate support. This works for me up to a point (see many previous comments)

5) Spectators, whilst far fewer, perhaps seem to enjoy themselves more. I missed the chance to see a Paralympic event here in Vancouver due to work travel, but my family went to the sledge hockey and said it was a great night out

6) Much less TV coverage reflects the media's view of general public interest levels

7) Complex grouping of competitors into categories for fair competition is different to the regular olympics. There are good and bad things about this. More winners, fewer media heroes. Wait, those are both good things

8) I'm not cynical enough to suggest that the Paralympics exist solely to assuage our guilt for the appalling lack of societal support for the disabled and their care-givers, but this might be an outcome nevertheless

According to one of my Russian students a Russian gold medallist will receive a BMW X5, a new apartment and $125K from the Government!

And why shouldn't they? Being the best in the world in whatever dicipline they compete in they more than deserve it.

Top PL football players wouldn't even get out of bed, if that type of reward was offered to them. I don't see many people complaining here.

In lieu of anything else, sure they would. Top football players are paid far more than is required to compensate them for the job they do.

How things have changed.

Not that long ago if they didn't win a meddle it was Gulag Archipelago for 10 years.

Stu.

Stu, the Gulag threat is used in the UK these days, that's why we're winning lots of medals ; )

Remember this?:

North Korea’s national football team were given a public dressing down when they returned home after their World Cup exit. Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported that the players were forced to endure a humiliating six hour session of criticism from sports commentators, athletes,students and politicians.

North Korea lost all three of their matches in South Africa but had turned up with few outside of the secretive Communist state expecting them to escape the “Group of Death”. It was the first time the nation had qualified for the World Cup finals since 1966.

After an impressive showing against Brazil in their firstmatch, the Chollima were thumped 7-0 by Portugal, as shown in our video. There were rumours that the heavy defeat came after direct orders were issued by Kim Jong-Il to adopt an attacking strategy that would have been against conventional wisdom.

The rout was reportedly part of the agenda when the players took to the stage in the People’s Palace of Culture on their return. Ri Dong-Kyu, a commentator on the state TV station which chose the Portugal match as it’s first ever live broadcast, led the criticism, highlighting the mistakes of each player in the team.

Only two of the squad, Japanese-born duo Jong Tae-Se and Ang Yong-Hak were missing from the public meeting which, a source told RFA, lasted six hours and included ideological criticism. At the end of the session, the players were made to voice their criticism of their manager, Kim Jong-Hun.

The national team coach is rumoured to have been expelled from the Communist Party and sent to work on a building site in the country’s capital city Pyongyang as punishment.

A source from South Korea’s intelligence community told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper: "In the past, North Korean athletes and coaches who performed badly were sent to prison camps.

“Considering the high hopes North Koreans had for the World Cup, the regime could have done worse things to the team than just reprimand them for their ideological shortcomings."  

Not elite (by a long shot), but an active member of a local cycling club. Mainly for the social aspects. We're fully self-funded, but admittedly do use public roads.

In Australia, the athletes only have to endure the media.

In headlines just today an Australian pole vaulter was accused of "bombing out" of the competition and an Australian BMX rider who won a silver was accused of "failing" to win the gold.

"Pole fault: Hooker bombs out without a height"

"Young gun Willoughby just fails to nail BMX gold"

Way to be classy, you superficial, populist hacks.