Tell me Your Favourite Beethoven Piano Concerto No.1?

EJ,

Since I've neglected this genere for so long, I've a serious catching up to do!

Beethoven's Concerto No.1& 2 were relatively obscure tunes but when I have heard Michelangeli's for the first time, it was the lights-on moment for me.

Discovery process is fun and even better when I find an artist who lets me get closer to the heart of the tune. 

I am holding out for a Arrau/Davis No.1 vinyl.

Valery Afanassiev/Hubert Soudant/Mozarteum Orchester Salzburg

I have heard of this somewhat controversial pianist's name before but not even aware of Soudant or  the orchestra. It's a live recording done in 2001. ( same production year Harnoncourt/Aimard )

This is probably the most *out there* and unconventional and creative interpretation of No.1 so far.

I am not familair with this record label ( OEHMS Classics ) but this is a nice live recording with audience noise greatly reduced ( almost completely taken out ). Close mic'd piano and the instruments with upfront imagery. Very little venue ambiance but I like the front row perspective. A bit dry for some but it has a decent frequency extension and free of distortion. Neutral sounding overall tonal balance.

I thought that the Harnoncourt/Aimard set was pretty long at over 19 min. on the 1st movement. 

This is the longest of the performance so far at over 20 min. for the 1st movement and the rest is pretty long-ish. It starts out very friendly and approchable with warm but very solid feel orchestration.  And the piano enters with a  low frquency weighted warmish tone with excellent clarity. The tempo starts out normal.

Then Afannasiev starts to take on his creative approach. Less fluid and rhyhmic than I am used to. There is a child like simplicity to it as if someone speaking very slowly or with a speach inpediment. The most unusual set so far. Afanassiev is playing on his own time and doing *his thing*. At times it sounds a bit uneven. ( intentional, I'm sure ) It has a plenty of life and on balance, very lively altho, his cadenza sounds a bit overworked and stiff. The 2nd movement is heavy handed lacking in transluscent illuminating feel. This is a one perky staccato Largo! :x

Funky Rondo albeit sounds a bit sat on like a huge elephant trying to dance on stilts.

Sounds like a disaster but he's got his reasons 'why'. I haven't bothered reading it but just by listening he's got a very strong POV. Incidentally, his heros are Furtwangler, Mengelberg, Knappertsbusch and Klemperer and he tries to capture teh sound and polyphony of their work.

Well, this was sure different and odd thing is that his No.2 is rather conventional ( comparatively that is ). 

His No.4's 2nd movement is just pretty successful but as a whole, I hear too much of Afanassiev and not enough Beethoven. 

Speaking of strong personality, I ought to try Gould's PC1.

Oh, noooooo !!! Not another excellent recommendation for me.

Look Kuma, I am personally holding you and EJS  responsible for a severe collapse in my bank account liquidity . Just don't tell my missus ! 

Kuma,

I assume you mean this........ ?

WW, 

Yep, that's it.

Now I reailse that its 2nd movement doesn't have the same intensity or drawing power as the rest of the movements but I figured that he's compensating for the live performance where the pianist deliberately exaggerate the styling so that the audience *gets it*. Or sometimes a pure showman ship. 

I think this is a very expressive performance and here, Michelangeli is clearly the commanding star.

Beethoven concerto #3 / Arrau, Davis

The concerto starts almost disappointingly conventionally, but as soon as Arrau gets to work on his passages, the magic returns. Both Arrau and Davis manage a bounce in I. and III. that hits the core of what the music is about (the recurring two note base motif it reminds me of the theme of 'airplane' for some perverse reason). II. is very slow, but beautifully sustained. The 'filler' is a multifaceted performance of the 6th sonata, not the greatest of the early sonatas (IMO) but as performed by Arrau appropriately orchestral in nature.

Overall, a fantastic cycle unlike any other I've heard. I just looked up the old gramophone reviews, which were predictably fairly negative - a recommendation, in other words. Arrau consistently takes the time to work out his ideas, a recurring theme with this pianist, and it all builds to an amazing experience. 

For those interested: be aware that the box set with all five works splits the 3rd concerto across two discs. The original stand alone discs had 1&2 together, 3 with a sonata on a disc, 4 with the eroica variations on a disc, and 5 all by itself. Only 4 and 5 are currently readily available, in Philips' 50 greatest hits collection.

Cheers,

EJ

EJ,

I found that the music review is like a hifi review in a sense that they are only good for what's available on the market. Whether a piece of music or hifi is suited for a buyer is completely up to a buyer as well as no such thing as *the best*.

In order to appreciate truely great performance, I don't mind investing in time to listen to others. Just as I did for a hifi.

In stead of waiting for a mythical mint Arrau/Davis No.1 vinyl to show up on my neck of the woods, I've ordered the CD from Arkiv which is ready to be shipped. 

It would be interesting to hear against the Haitink version. 

Another one I don't mind hearing is the one with Szell/Philharmonic Arrau recorded in 1945. 

These are the ones we have. Quite nice, but I have nothing to really compare them to....

Kuma,

Best usually means "I like it better than the others", doesn't it? I think Gramophone can hit it right if the reviewer is in a willing mood but once a review starts with "This is a very odd record, indeed..." or "To see an old man climb a mountain is always a sight to behold..." it's time to get the beer, popcorn and invite some old frat buddies over for a good laugh.

Arkiv is my usual source for recordings of abandoned artists, which sadly includes post-60s Arrau and Sinopoli. They use the original artwork, but the reproduction quality is generally poor.

Cheers,

EJ

Winkyincanada,

That's still one of my favourite Piano Concerto No.1. 

Nicely done early digital recording and the vinyl sounds great. 

Rhythmically brilliant and his phrasing ever so expressive. Love the jazzy contemporary feel of Rondo to keep things fresh. 

This really is a well thought out tight performance.

Haitink is a great foil for Perahia here and this paring sounds a whole lot tighter than his earlier session with Arrau.

Anyways, I really think this is a very good set. If it gives you a joy, that means it IS good.

I am curious about their 2007 reunion and this CD is on my list.

It has been many years passed but the pair returned for the Beethoven Piano Concertos again.

I wonder if anyone have heard this version ?

Kuma, to the best of my knowledge this is simply a re-issue of the earlier set.

EJ

Well, someone's *The Best* can be someone else's worst nightmare!
We can all judge the level of technical skills but how can you put a value on interpretative skills and how they affect listener's mind?

Sinopoli now is an abandoned artist?!
That's cold.

EJ,

You're right. The release date says 1987 which is the orginal date for the CD. Sony just repackaged the same material. So the '85 recording is his one and only Concertos. Thanks for the clarification.

Bummer tho cuz I was sort of interested listening to the possible reunion gig.

Kuma, the Kovacevich / Australian Chamber Orchestras just got delivered to my dear corporate mail box. Will give 1 & 4 a spin, tonight and let you know. Packaging looks extremely tacky, a bit like those ultra-budget classical CDs from the early 90s with orchestras and conductors nobody recognised. But the discs themselves look allright (second hand but clean) and it appears the recordings were made by a regular EMI recording team.

Cheers,

EJ

By the late 80s, when these concertos were recorded, Stephen Kovacevich had developed into a much more dramatic pianist than in his younger days - these concertos are by and large in the style of his EMI sonata cycle - a keen ear for the feel and color, persuasive, and relentlessly intense. By and large, this is sturm und drang Beethoven. In many ways, he combines Pollini's classical sense of line and clarity, with the hot bloodedness of the Martha Argerich / Annie Fischer camp. Just listen to the finale of Nr.1 or the last bars of the movement of Nr.4, but also both slow movements, where Kovacevich achieves something close a transcendental quality. This is seriously good... In every way except the ultimate polish, he leaves his earlier readings for Philips far behind. 

But...

The Australian Chamber Orchestra sounds distinctly ordinary. Not bad, and not lacking in energy, but quite small scale and simply unexceptional. Overall, still a great show.

With the EMI reading comes the EMI sound: slightly clangy, metallic. It is how he sounds live (I've heard him play Beethoven and Mozart in Paris and Rotterdam), but EMI and SK received a lot of flak for the sound quality over the years.

Cheers,

EJ

EJ,

Thanks for an interesting report. See it's worth it to discover a good record yourself rather than skimming through music reviews.

Now that might be the Bishop/Kovacevich I might like!

Barenboim's 'Beethoven for All' Concertos as well as Arrau/Davis CD arrived. Planning to compare to his earlier set with Haitink.  

Oddly, my Krell CD player refused to play the Barenboim Decca discs. ( CD555 seems to work fine, however )

Maybe the Krell CD player was built in Israel. Ah, no, sorry, it's a Beethoven disc isn't it, not Wagner...

WW, 

It is odd that Krell's JVC pro transport would read almost anything.

This must have been the omen...

So I had a chance to listen to Barenboim's No.1. This CD seems to be the same content as his earlier DVD and Blue Ray disc releases. I assume this is a 2ch mixed down from the multi channel audio taken down from the said DVDs.

This isn't the best 2ch reproduction. Sharp edges in string instruments and hollow midbass and clarity suffers. Overall balance is uneven with soft pronounced mid/low bass. The piano sometimes goes in and out. This is a live recording with audience noise is kept at minimum and applause appears at the end of each program.

I know this isn't fair comparing it to a studio quality production, but Arrau's vintage Philip digital even sounds so much clearer ( '87 recording ) than this 2012 Decca release CDs. 

Nicely packaged in a handsome gift box, tho.

I think some of the early digital recordings are not bad at all. ( Haitink/Perahia Sony digital is a good example )

Anyways, the DVD/Blue Ray versions might sound better as I think they might have optimised the sound for the multi channel versions and CD as an afterthought. (me speculating )

On to the performance. The opening movement has a mellow disposition with no sharp corners.

Rhythmically challenged and dynamically flat. I don't seem to have the same internal clock asBarenboim's. I feel his timing is always a bit off.  The 2nd movement doesn't have that inner insights or voices from the past either. And awfully monotonous without much flair or lyricism to keep me interested. It sounds like a schoolbook idea of *sad* music lacking depth and decorative phrases sound trite and superficial. This just excruciatingly slow and tiresome.

The Rondo starts out on a lively footing but not enough gallantry and fun spirit. Ruined further by out of place timpani.

We have a word in Japanese for this;

'Dasai'

English translation, altho, much of the nuance gets lost.

uncool,
boring,
nerdy,
plain

So, this set unfortunately did not break my 'Barenboim' Boredom.

Kuma, I understand. I've only seen Barenboim live once, and found him a lovely person and a gentleman. However, his playing didn't move me in the same way as the times I've heard Perahia live, for instance. His discs sound too (can I say) straight and nothing really moves me. It's all personal feelings of course. 

However, three things. Firstly, please listen to Barenboim's masterclasses DVD :- 

These masterclasses are really remarkable and illustrate the true genius of this man.

Secondly, read some of his written works, such as his discussions with Edward Said i.e. -

Two really intelligent minds come together. Rivetting.

Thirdly, listen to his conducting. This is really really good, if different and challenging :

Regards,

WW.

WW,

Thanks for the suggestions. I still have quite a bit of list of Concerto No.1, including the one with Klemperer, before I get to that, tho.

As for him conducting, I also failed to *get* what he does when I used to go to the live concert when he was a musical director at CSO. One of the reasons I stopped going there cuz he was BORING!

I thought if I ever became old and matured, I will understand the finer things in life. Alas, I just became old. ;x

Speaking of another old pianist, Claudio Arrau was back in the running due to EJS and your recommendation of his last Beethoven cycle with Davis. 

EJ,

You weren't kidding about the reproduction quality of the cover art. It looks like someone just printed off the laser writer! And they just used a CD duplicate machine for the label.

But I was floored a minute I hit the play button how good this early digital recording sounds. 

A gigantic dynamic sound coming out from a pair of small standmounts in my office as well as a huge enveloping soundstage with the Briks in the main rig, too. I can't claim It's got the 'wall of sound' as good as vinyl but pretty darn impressive for a CD. Excellent frequency reach and generally free of distortion. Piano doesn't get lost in the orchestra and nicely close mic'd to showcase the againg pianist. A touch of reverve added for that impressive effect.

I can only speculate how good the vinyl will sound if these were recorded in high resolution.

For the performance, I am familiar with his earlier set with Haitink. This is a very popular version and well reviewed and many many different pressings around on this. But I was not keen on the performance because of its busy Librace like overdone Rococo wallpaper style. It maintains more of 'salon' Mozartian feel.

Other Piano Concerto I was familiar with was his even earlier set with Ormandy done back in the 40s which sounds a lot more solid and firmer presentation but compared to Richter or Polini, he operates with a looser fashion.

His last Piano Concerto No.1 in question here is still undeniably Arrau I am familiar with.

On the Haitink version sometimes I felt Bernard was gingerly accompanying a 'fragile' pianist whilst on this set, Arrau offers up an Impressive cadenza to go with the large scale Davis' orchestration.

After his elegant but assuring entrance his style is a lot less fussy compared to his previous set with Haitink. It sure has the feeling of a deliberate plan. I still prefer Kempff's No.1 for his witty * with it * attitude but shows deeper understanding of the score and considerable maturity than Barenboim. 

I agree with EJ that oddly, Davis does not sound bland and benine here. The orchestra is equally potent and playing a significant role albeit a tad overwhelming for the intimate 2nd movement. Less dashing and lively Rondo than I expected. Somewhat irregular and awkward even. Fluid but a bit dragging as if he's running out of steam. I miss the clarity and jump especially coming off from the lovely Largo.

Overall, this is still a slow cooking stew but what a tasty stew it is!

Oh, one other thing...as Backhaus, the sound of nails hitting the keys is audible. I don't get why these guys don't cut their nails down. :/

Anyone know any of the Rudolf Serkin recordings? there seem to be several sets. I generally try to avoid Bernstein who takes Ormandy with him in the sony set, though at 11 discs for £20 it's tempting for the solo stuff, but that still leaves Ozawa and Kubelík. Early digital, with the 1st tagged on as an afterthought, according to one review, or a late analog live recording.

yeti42,

I've some of Serkin's No.1 Concerto releases on vinyl. Both are with Ormandy/Philadelphia and by far I prefer his earlier performance.

This is a 1954 mono recording of Concerto No.1 with Ormandy.

Serkin's agility and playful style works well against Ormandy's orchestral wallpaper backdrop. Altho I wish the tone of piano was more vivid. The 1st movement is tidy and clean reminds me a bit of Bach. He can't quite sustain Largo quite like Kempff and drags on a bit. But he makes a nice come back on Rondo with a quite modern fresh approach. Overall I like this Serkin's lively & playful presentation. Unfortunately some groove damage on this record but lots of 'life' in this performance both from Serkin and Ormandy.

I also have the later 5 concertos set with Ormandy/Berstein. I think this is the same set as you speak of.

I miss the sense of playfulness of last session. Ormandy's Orchestration, too feels fussy and ostentatious. Finger work is slightly more of fluid legato style. Still well-articulated but has a gentler disposition compared to the previous version. It's more polished but comes off less involving. This tune needs that playfulness or chip on the shoulder to pull it off. Even the start of the Rondo is a bit off from the start. I guess that's why I like Backhaus' No.1 particularly with Isserstedt. 

This is a '65 recording so the clarity improves but the prior '6 eye' warmth is gone and massed strings suffer. The noise floor and hiss are high-ish on this pressing, too. Perhaps Sony might have done a decent remaster on this but I am not too thrilled with the performance.

The new release with Cantelli/NY Phil '53 live mono is on my 'want to' listening list.

It's a Music & Arts release which I am not familiar with but since this is not available in the US, I have to smuggle one in from elsewhere.

I still haven't gotten around to listen to Toscanini/Dorfman but Cantelli/Serkin combo ought to be interesting.

I had a session on the first yesterday starting with Bishop on vinyl which to me has an impish feel to it, certainly on the outer movements. This was followed after a break for lunch by:

on CD. It's Beethoven via Brahms, big and romantic but enjoyable if you forget it's opus 15 and not 115.

I then went on to Pollini on CD:

Much more classical in style but I think you know this one already. I reached saturation point about half way through, not helped by the over bright piano, I went back to vinyl for Solomon/Menges in original mono to finish off but my concentration had gone by this point.

I've ordered the Kubelik set:

but I intend to stop there unless I find something interesting on vinyl in Oxfam.

yeti42,

I still haven't heard Polini's No.1. I have his No.5 & No.4 with Böhm/Vienna Philharmonic '76 recording on vinyl. I must say they sound pretty good. Altho not as good as the big Tulips vinyl from the 60s and higher register keys have a tendency to ring. On balance it's too uptight and not natural sounding particularly their No.4.

Is this the same Pollini/Abbado recording you have?

I've a few Orfeo CDs ( Sviatoslav Richter ) and found them excellent sounding.

Hi Kuma,

no it's the Vienna Philharmonic under Jochum live in 82, I'll give it another go this evening with fresh ears.

The Pollini  with the Vienna Philharmonic is pretty well exactly what you'd expect, if you like Polini's take on the sonatas, and I do, you'll like this too, it's played straight but with plenty of life, however, the recording has a glassy sound giving a sheen over the strings and the vaguest hint of honky-tonk to the piano. Now its possible my system emphasises this glassiness, though it doesn't creat it, I've only had the 555ps a few weeks and it's closer than I'd like to a steel cased NAD tuner.