HDX / nDac / 555PS v HDX / NDS / 555PS

We were very happy with our HDX/DAC/555PS. Far enough ahead of our CDX2/XPS2 to justify the bother. We were going for a CDS3 but the HDX and subsequently the DAC queered the pitch and we felt that in terms of boogie, detail and bang for buck we went the right way - for us. Convenience didn't factor in. We were after what we considered to be the best musical enjoyment we could get our hands on for our budget. That the HDX turned out to be so easy and convenient to use was a bonus. I sincerely hope that this thread doesn't get steered down that familiar, less than fully informed and circular discussion path.

The poise and organic fluidity of the CDS3 (we had listened to it many times and were *this* close to buying) was forgotten in favor of drive and detail retrieval. We have no regrets. Owning and enjoying the CDS3 became a romantic notion of something we never did for the right reasons - for us. 

We didn't live in a stark world of ear peeling clarity. The HDX/DAC/555PS is an accomplished performer with poise, timing and unforced detail. Musically enjoyable although maligned in some quarters (particularly the DAC) for being somewhat cold and mechanical. We didn't have this perception but the arrival of an NDS to audition really kicked the rocks over. It is in comparison a very complete performer and in a parallel universe something akin to the CDS3 compared to the CDX2. Both likable and able but the NDS sounds real whereas the DAC/555PS is a good yet obvious portrayer of a kind of virtual reality. 

It is difficult to say that the NDS is X% better than something else or does certain things better. But it is special. A musical kind of special. As ever the logical thing to do is to listen to one in your system. It won't make what you've got sound broken although it will very likely make it sound somehow not right. It will dig out more detail and play tunes better but there's more to it. We found it compelling. Your mileage may vary. 

Can't speak for your dealer or for CDS3 prices. Will say that we got an excellent trade in on a 2.5 year old DAC. And of course, going this route is hassle free. Cost to change for us (including some other bits and pieces we traded in with the DAC) was just over £4.2K. Still a lot of money but we are satisfied that we've got good value and DR upgrades aside we should be able to fit, forget and enjoy for a long time. 

Be interested to hear how it pans out for you. All the best with it.

Hi Harry,

Many thanks for your considered reply.

I've broken the ice with my dealer regarding trading in both the CDS3 and nDac, and early signs are encouraging. I'll  probably arrange for a home demo, and take it from there.

Know what you mean regarding hijacking of the other thread, for me it's not about the perceived convenience factor, which seems not to take into account the inherent SQ qualities of the HDX.

Will post the outcome once the home demo has been done.

The fun never stops!

Regards,

Dave.

The fun certainly won't stop once you sample an NDS that's been sucking amps for a few hours. I look forward to reading your findings.

Dave, given that the DAC in the NDS has a more refined SQ than the stand-alone DAC, the choice becomes easy, imho.

I went down this road, but with an NDX in there for a while too, so HDX/DAC/555PS  to  HDX/NDX/DAC/555PS  and on to  HDX/NDS/555PS. I found the forray into NDX-land was a little better than the HDX alone, but now the NDS is, as you have read elswhere, a whole different quality of music reproduction... and to be thoroughly recommended. 

As you say, the fun never stops!  (I think they say that in Salisbury too).

Pure speculation, I know, but you don't suppose Naim might be considering a reference series standalone DAC in the future?

Regards,

Dave. 

I think such a thing is under consideration and more. But who can say when if ever? NDS has Dig Out and that's not for hooking up an nDAC - although I suppose there's nothing to stop anyone who wants to. You could argue that it allows a range of external DACs from far and wide to be considered and while strictly true this is not the Naim tradition.

Over the years I've found myself running contrary to Naim when it comes to DACs, although we occasionally unify at the cross over points. Back in the 80s and through the 90s (when they went out of fashion) I heard a few and owned one external DAC which performed excellently at a time when Naim maintained that this was a highway to hell. I then more or less accidentally backed into the Naim CDP range and became a convert of integrated DACs with an upgrade route via separate power supplies. 

U-Turn though it was the nDAC spoke for itself. However, having gone down that road it is obvious that the NDS with the DAC back in the same box (and a few other enhancements besides!) is a big step forward. I don't know if taking a more advanced DAC outside the box, with all the attendant hassle and variations in digital interconnects can achieve anything worth the upheaval. But should such a situation unfold I will be at the front of the crowd if it moves the game on. I just think that there is less of a potential even within the law of diminishing returns. Bottom line - more choice is a good thing. It's down to the individual which choice to make. Won't be any time soon I don't think.

Interestingly enough, the manual for the NDS states that an upgrade path for the NDS is a dac. And yes I had to read the manual !!!

Yo Harry,

See my current post about 555DR / SupercapDR.

They just couldn't help themselves could they, and insisted on bringing over, in addition to the DR power supplies, an NDS, as I said "just for a listen"

Blimey! What's going on there, and why should streaming be so much better than hard wired?

Anyway, having spoken with Phil Harris, it seems the future might include holding onto the HDX, binning the DAC, and streaming to an NDS.

As mentioned, living on toast and baked beans may feature in my short term future! 

Regards,

Dave.

I don't know how they do it and I don't care.

Beans are good for you. So that's a win win

Just wait and see, once the nDAC2 is released Naim's top end streaming solution is going to be:

NDS/2x555PS-DR/nDAC2/2x555PS-DR. Until the ND555 comes out of course that is. So much for reducing box count and Fraim shelves

I've seen a few references to an nDAC2. Has anyone actually had any sort of tip-off at all on this, or is it a case of people just assuming that there will be one?  

Not sure it ill be needed to have 2 555PS on an NDS with a higher DAC. The people using HDX/NDS/555PS are using finally only the DAC of the NDS more or less. On my side, i have tried the NDS home and i totally agree with what have been written up. But with my current source HDX/NDAC/XPS-dr i would not be eager to pay that amount for just a DAC. HDX having all the other services - so i hope a high end DAC (S-DAC maybe?) will come out one day.

Cheers

box collecting , give time for customers to use and listen to new units

The tip off is that the NDS has a dig out. Past that it is all speculation. The DAC already sings at a high level, particularly with 555PS. The next step, or possibly paradigm shift, may take time, but something is coming at some point. Until then what have we got? Lots of choices in CD replay, streaming, serving, and various permutations thereof, and they're not exactly rubbish are they?

CDS3 was introduced in 2002 and CD555 in 2006 and it took Naim 4 years to develop the better player.

We possibly have to wait about the same four years before ND555 will show up.

I think it is unlikely that an above NDS stand alone (with PS) streamer will come. Pure speculation on my part. I would be less surprised to see a 500 level box that does more than stream.

Yes I would be surprised if a the reference DAC doesn't appear bringing through dual burndy feeds and mechanical isolation.

I share observations about the HDX->NDAC/555PS, when I was auditioning playback 18 months ago, I was not happy with that combo.. It didn't gel compared to my then CDS3/XPS2.. However the NDX->nDAC/555PS was quite a step forward and a no brainer for me.. And Iguess this is what you are enjoying with the NDS,as these two are quite similar in presentation albeit each have  different sweetspots.